Zijlstra Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 On 5/14/2022 at 1:14 PM, ExFlyer said: Another one after a NBA Game https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/20-injured-in-milwaukee-shootings-after-bucks-playoff-game/ar-AAXgAKA?ocid=EMMX&cvid=e2c7d10e65934fe6a2407d50102ec027 What is wrong down there?? Quick question: is an NBA game a gun-free zone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) Del Edited July 31, 2022 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 44 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: if you want to take away people's rights then the burden of proof is on you to prove it's worth it you don't get to take away people's rights because of unsubstantiated assumptions I don’t really care what Americans do, owning a gun is not a right in Canada. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 16 minutes ago, Aristides said: I don’t really care what Americans do, owning a gun is not a right in Canada. security of the person is a right you want to infringe on that right so prove that infringement is worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Zijlstra said: Quick question: is an NBA game a gun-free zone? Why the F would you be asking me?? I just linked a story. Look it up yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zijlstra Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 So I'll take that as a yes, another mass shooting in a gun-free zone (read: defenseless victims zone) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Zijlstra said: So I'll take that as a yes, another mass shooting in a gun-free zone (read: defenseless victims zone) There is no such thing as a gun free zone in the country with far more guns than people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Aristides said: There is no such thing as a gun free zone in the country with far more guns than people. yes there is and they are most common locations where most mass shooters choose to go on their shooting sprees because their victims are less likely to be armed and be able to shoot back Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: yes there is and they are most common locations where most mass shooters choose to go on their shooting sprees because their victims are less likely to be armed and be able to shoot back If people are getting guns into them, they aren't gun free. But wouldn't it be great if everyone there had guns and all started shooting. Which one with the gun was the original shooter? The collateral damage possibilities are unlimited. Now the hell could anyone think that 20,000 people in an arena all armed could possibly be a good idea. Edited August 1, 2022 by Aristides 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Aristides said: If people are getting guns into them, they aren't gun free. But wouldn't it be great if everyone there had guns and all started shooting. Which one with the gun was the original shooter? The collateral damage possibilities are unlimited. Now the hell could anyone think that 20,000 people in an arena all armed could possibly be a good idea. people get guns into those zones because criminals don't follow laws they don't follow any of your other gun control laws either your plan only works if all bad people with guns listen to the laws, but that's not how it works and it never will be you are designing laws for fictional society that will never exist and assuming that will work in the real world Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: people get guns into those zones because criminals don't follow laws they don't follow any of your other gun control laws either your plan only works if all bad people with guns listen to the laws, but that's not how it works and it never will be you are designing laws for fictional society that will never exist and assuming that will work in the real world How does your plan work? If everyone there is armed and someone starts shooting, are you going to pull out your gun? You better think twice because some other “good guy with a gun” is just as likely to think you are a shooter and take you out. That is the real world. Edited August 1, 2022 by Aristides 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Aristides said: How does your plan work? If everyone there is armed and someone starts shooting, are you going there pull out your gun? You better think twice because some other “good guy with a gun” is just as likely to think you are a shooter and take you out. That is the real world. that's not what happens what happens is the shooter gets shot and your dreams about massive collateral damage if people are armed in a mass shooting never comes to fruition that's the real world you're just so triggered by guns that you assume they are never the answer even to stop a mass shooter Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: that's not what happens what happens is the shooter gets shot and your dreams about massive collateral damage if people are armed never come to fruition that's the real world you're just so triggered by guns that you assume they are never the answer Bullshit. If 20K people pull out guns, 90% of them won’t know who the real shooter is. I’m not triggered by guns, I’m not even against them. I’m just not a delusional idiot. Edited August 1, 2022 by Aristides 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Aristides said: Bullshit. If 20K people pull out guns, 90% of them won’t know who the real shooter is. bullshit if 20k people have guns no mass shooter is going to target them in the first place there is a reason so many of them choose soft targets and don't go light up the police station it's not a coincidence Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 47 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: bullshit if 20k people have guns no mass shooter is going to target them in the first place there is a reason so many of them choose soft targets and don't go light up the police station it's not a coincidence Most mass shooters don't expect to survive. If I was a suicidal mass shooter an arena full of armed people would be great. More of them would probably shoot each other than I could possibly kill myself. We had two guys target police in Saanich a couple of weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 58 minutes ago, Aristides said: Most mass shooters don't expect to survive. If I was a suicidal mass shooter an arena full of armed people would be great. More of them would probably shoot each other than I could possibly kill myself. We had two guys target police in Saanich a couple of weeks ago. mass shooters usually don't pick on hardened targets they pick on softer targets so evidently you don't have much of a clue on how they think at all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: mass shooters usually don't pick on hardened targets they pick on softer targets so evidently you don't have much of a clue on how they think at all How is it a hardened target. You hear some shots. When you turn and look you see several people with guns. Which one do you shoot? Even military and police who are trained to recognize a threat occasionally make mistakes. With thousands of armed people in an enclosed arena, eventually some duffus is going to see a threat that doesn't exist and start shooting. Edited August 1, 2022 by Aristides 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Aristides said: How is it a hardened target. You hear some shots. When you turn and look you see several people with guns. Which one do you shoot? Even military and police who are trained to recognize a threat occasionally make mistakes. With thousands of armed people in an enclosed arena, eventually some duffus is going to see a threat that doesn't exist and start shooting. targets equipped to defend themselves are hard targets no mass shooters are targeting gun shows that's not a coincidence your theory that if someone starts shooting in a place with lots of armed people that a bunch of innocent people are going to get shot automatically doesn't have any real life examples backing it up it's entirely a figment of your imagination Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: targets equipped to defend themselves are hard targets no mass shooters are targeting gun shows that's not a coincidence your theory that if someone starts shooting in a place with lots of armed people that a bunch of innocent people are going to get shot automatically doesn't have any real life examples backing it up it's entirely a figment of your imagination If you have thousands of armed people in the same place, eventually someone will start shooting even if it is by mistake. The places with the most guns have the most shootings. The US firearms homicide rate per 100k pop is 6 times Canada. Edited August 1, 2022 by Aristides 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Aristides said: If you have thousands of armed people in the same place, eventually someone will start shooting even if it is by mistake. The places with the most guns have the most shootings. The US firearms homicide rate per 100k pop is 6 times Canada. America having more firearms homicides than Canada has nothing to do with the amount of guns in either nation Switzerland has a lot more guns than many countries with much higher firearms homicide rates, for instance just because someone owns or carries a gun doesn't mean it's inevitable they shoot someone with it that's not how it works Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 On 7/30/2022 at 5:33 PM, Yzermandius19 said: that's not proof the gun control is responsible what proof do you have that gun control lowers firearms deaths? 1) countries that have gun control have lower incidence of gun deaths than countries that don’t (USA vs the entire developed world, Switzerland vs rest of Europe) 2) countries that significantly strengthen gun control laws have lower incidence of gun deaths than they did prior to enacting them (UK, Australia) What more proof can there be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 38 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: America having more firearms homicides than Canada has nothing to do with the amount of guns in either nation Switzerland has a lot more guns than many countries with much higher firearms homicide rates, for instance just because someone owns or carries a gun doesn't mean it's inevitable they shoot someone with it that's not how it works False. Switzerland has always had one of the highest rates of gun violence in Europe and the federal government has been toughening gun control in recent years with result being lower gun crime . You’ve already been educated about the reality in Switzerland but you continue to spew your false nonsense Here are the facts that I already provided for you AGAIN : https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2?amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: 1) countries that have gun control have lower incidence of gun deaths than countries that don’t (USA vs the entire developed world, Switzerland vs rest of Europe) 2) countries that significantly strengthen gun control laws have lower incidence of gun deaths than they did prior to enacting them (UK, Australia) What more proof can there be? that's not proof lots of countries that have high gun deaths have gun control lots of countries have higher gun deaths after implementing gun control you're cherry picking and you have yet to link levels of gun crime to gun control levels Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: that's not proof lots of countries that have high gun deaths have gun control lots of countries have higher gun deaths after implementing gun control For example? 12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: you have yet to link levels of gun crime to gun control levels Like I already asked you, what more evidence would you require? Be specific. I gave you evidence and you claimed (without evidence) that it was cherry picking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: what more evidence would you require? Be specific. I gave you evidence you gave no evidence evidence that some places with low gun crime also have gun control isn't proof that gun control is the cause of the low gun crime what proof do you have that gun control is the cause and that various other factors aren't driving the low gun crime rate that you are attributing to gun control? Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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