Neo-Marxists cannot be reasoned with

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

That sounds a lot like an ideology that embraces keeping the government off people's back.

Libertarianism

 

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, Great American said:

For decades... ..

...lets all of you fat lazy arses who are use to sucking on our teet fend for yourselves. America can produce enough to be self sustaining of we really buckle down to it. The rest of you? You'd be fucked.

Canadian Leftists make me wish we had let Hitler take all your asses down.

Sure you do. Most of you have been disrespecting me since I signed up. And all it does is prove the premise of this thread to be true.

Respect is earned. Disrespect is equally earned. Guess you earned what you deserve.

[ExFlyer]

9 hours ago, blackbird said:

So you support abortion on demand, same-sex marriage, sexual orientation and gender identity teaching to young kids in schools, medical assistance in dying.   Does that include medical assistance in dying for mentally ill people and minors too?

You realize that some of those were brought in under conservative rule??

[Nationalist]

Wow. What a thread. I believe our Yankee friend has proven his primary point. Neo-Marxists are indeed unreasonable and unable to face some rather raw truths.

I read that Neo-Marxism doesn't exist. Then I read...from the same person no less...that Canadian Conservatives are left of US Democrats. That's pretty far left. Almost like they could easily be called...Neo-Marxists.

To the back and forth about the US military protecting Canada. It is quite impossible for us to conclude anything because we would need a top level security clearance and if any of us had said clearance, we wouldn't be able to discuss it. However it is true that both militaries work cooperatively all the time. NORAD comes to mind. BTW...Canada entered both world wars because of our fealty to the British Crown.

I read here the argument that morality takes president over reason. That single statement proves the point of the OP. The statement is dangerously meaningless because it suggests that the guys who barrel-assed passenger jets into various buildings on 9/11, were justified in doing so...somehow. Morality is very subjective and differs from place to place, usually depending on the primary religion of any given region. And THAT is why we base...or should base...our internal political and geopolitical policies...on REASON. It is this insane idea of morality, that has given way to the destructive green policies that are now compounding our already frail economies globally.

IMO...Neo-Marxism does indeed exist and has gained way too much power for my liking. If we...as a society...wish to maintain the standard of living our own mothers and fathers worked so hard to build, we must recognize the dangers of acting out purely on the basis of our "feelings". One person's "feelings" or "morality", is not the same as the next person's. Thus it is not a stable platform for basing governing decisions on. But REASON...is stable. REASON tells us that if you are leery of a nation...don't rely on that nation for your national energy. REASON tells us that if a government spends a ton of tax payers' money on welfare during a pandemic, that once the pandemic is over, said nation should try to tighten its fiscal belt or run the very real risk if recession...or full fledged depression.

And that's really what all the partisan fighting has been about...hasn't it. REASON Vs. MORALITY. FACTS Vs. FEELINGS. REALITY Vs. SMOKE AND MIRRORS.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Nationalist

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, blackbird said:

1. So you support abortion on demand,

2. same-sex marriage,

3. sexual orientation and gender identity teaching to young kids in schools,

4. medical assistance in dying.   Does that include medical assistance in dying for mentally ill people and minors too?

1. No
2. I think that civil union and marriage are the same thing.  Religions shouldn't be forced to marry people.
3. 'Teaching' ?  No but there's no reason to hide same sex relationships from the classroom
4. Not in my book.  I think that MAID is a cop-out for a society that can't fix its problems personally.

Is your investigation of my morality now complete ?  Did you get your search warrant signed ?

Pretty presumtuous to grill me and not feel you have to answer my questions... 

[Michael Hardner]

12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Please provide some evidence that it is binding, or shut up.

I didn't see this @blackbird so since I have completed your online purity test we are done here.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I didn't see this @blackbird so since I have completed your online purity test we are done here.

I think you are...

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. No
2. I think that civil union and marriage are the same thing.  Religions shouldn't be forced to marry people.
3. 'Teaching' ?  No but there's no reason to hide same sex relationships from the classroom
4. Not in my book.  I think that MAID is a cop-out for a society that can't fix its problems personally.

Is your investigation of my morality now complete ?  Did you get your search warrant signed ?

Pretty presumtuous to grill me and not feel you have to answer my questions... 

This is a discussion and debating forum.  I answer your questions. That's all there is to it.

Edited May 16, 2022 by blackbird

[blackbird]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

You realize that some of those were brought in under conservative rule??

I don't support everything conservatives do or did.    They are all seriously wrong about some things, but Liberals and NDP are worse.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I don't support everything conservatives do or did.    They are all seriously wrong about some things, but Liberals and NDP are worse.

Just saying.

One political party is not much better than the other once they get in office.

In Canada, we seem to tolerate one party for a while then we throw then out and get the other... for a while.

The primary difference in the past number of years is the everyday persons overwhelming personal attachment to one party or the other. We used to be tolerant but now we are confrontational. 2 years into a mandate, we start to whine about who is in power.

[Queenmandy85]

18 hours ago, blackbird said:

So you support abortion on demand, same-sex marriage, sexual orientation and gender identity teaching to young kids in schools, medical assistance in dying.   Does that include medical assistance in dying for mentally ill people and minors too?

1. I support a woman's right to an abortion in the knowledge that no woman makes that agonizing decision lightly. As a man, it is totally inappropriate for me to judge a woman in that situation.

2. It is important that children receive accurate information in sexual orientation and gender identity so they will understand it is natural. 10% of human beings are gay.

3. I support same sex marriage. So does the most of the Christian Churches.

4. I support medically assisted dying. I cannot judge a person in those circumstances and I hope none of us ever have to.

 Blackbird, I respect your views, but you understand I have different views, especially after  being married to a theologian and spending reteats with some of the leading theological scholars in the country.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[Army Guy]

On 5/15/2022 at 3:31 PM, Michael Hardner said:

2. Liberal/Marxist is an oxymoron

4. Liberal Marxist is a made up thing.  Marxism came from Marx's exile in England, not 'rednecks'.  People making up words and demonizing non existent groups is just silliness, we shouldn't have to comment on it.  It's just nonsense.

There are plenty of right wing pundits and academics.  Why not quote them, instead of making up baby words?

It's like me saying dog-cat hybrids are cute, prove me wrong.

So how does one classify those Antifa members in those pictures, with the communist flag in the background?

They are definitely far far left, definitely not red necks, and seem to freely fly a communist flag as if it represents something they can relate to. 

[Great American]

32 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I support a woman's right to an abortion

Nobody has the right to commit murder. Abortion is murder. Abortion is the killing of an innocent human being. That is murder.

33 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

It is important that children receive accurate information in sexual orientation and gender identity so they will understand it is natural. 10% of human beings are gay

WRONG! Parents and families decide what values and information a child receives. Muslim families don't want that filth taught to their kids and neither do real Christian families.

Schools are there to teach reading, writing, and math, not to fill 6 year old kids heads with perverted sexual lifestyles.

35 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I support same sex marriage. So does the most of the Christian Churches

THAT is a TOTAL LIE. The Catholic Church an the Orthodox alone make up about 70% of the Christian world and they do NOT accept the sin of sodomy as being okay. Neither do evangelicals and fundamentalist. Oh, and come here and tell that to a Southern Baptists. LOL. You might not survive. Wherever the hell you got that insane fake statistic, I suggest you never read that source again. LOLLLL

Man dude, you are totally brainwashed and propagandized. Fascinating . . . and frightening.

[Great American]

8 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Wow. What a thread. I believe our Yankee friend has proven his primary point. Neo-Marxists are indeed unreasonable and unable to face some rather raw truths.

I read that Neo-Marxism doesn't exist. Then I read...from the same person no less...that Canadian Conservatives are left of US Democrats. That's pretty far left. Almost like they could easily be called...Neo-Marxists.

To the back and forth about the US military protecting Canada. It is quite impossible for us to conclude anything because we would need a top level security clearance and if any of us had said clearance, we wouldn't be able to discuss it. However it is true that both militaries work cooperatively all the time. NORAD comes to mind. BTW...Canada entered both world wars because of our fealty to the British Crown.

I read here the argument that morality takes president over reason. That single statement proves the point of the OP. The statement is dangerously meaningless because it suggests that the guys who barrel-assed passenger jets into various buildings on 9/11, were justified in doing so...somehow. Morality is very subjective and differs from place to place, usually depending on the primary religion of any given region. And THAT is why we base...or should base...our internal political and geopolitical policies...on REASON. It is this insane idea of morality, that has given way to the destructive green policies that are now compounding our already frail economies globally.

IMO...Neo-Marxism does indeed exist and has gained way too much power for my liking. If we...as a society...wish to maintain the standard of living our own mothers and fathers worked so hard to build, we must recognize the dangers of acting out purely on the basis of our "feelings". One person's "feelings" or "morality", is not the same as the next person's. Thus it is not a stable platform for basing governing decisions on. But REASON...is stable. REASON tells us that if you are leery of a nation...don't rely on that nation for your national energy. REASON tells us that if a government spends a ton of tax payers' money on welfare during a pandemic, that once the pandemic is over, said nation should try to tighten its fiscal belt or run the very real risk if recession...or full fledged depression.

And that's really what all the partisan fighting has been about...hasn't it. REASON Vs. MORALITY. FACTS Vs. FEELINGS. REALITY Vs. SMOKE AND MIRRORS.

Thank you sir. I appreciate all your thoughtful posts here.

[blackbird]

36 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

1. I support a woman's right to an abortion in the knowledge that no woman makes that agonizing decision lightly. As a man, it is totally inappropriate for me to judge a woman in that situation.

2. It is important that children receive accurate information in sexual orientation and gender identity so they will understand it is natural. 10% of human beings are gay.

3. I support same sex marriage. So does the most of the Christian Churches.

4. I support medically assisted dying. I cannot judge a person in those circumstances and I hope none of us ever have to.

 Blackbird, I respect your views, but you understand I have different views, especially after  being married to a theologian and spending reteats with some of the leading theological scholars in the country.

United churches and Anglican have departed from the Bible long ago.  Anglican churches are divided over those issues.  Killing (abortion, MAID is condemned in the Bible which was inspired by God.   So you are in total opposition to the Bible.  The theologian you were talking to must be totally screwed up and must not be believe the Bible if they support those things.  Perhaps you were associating with people who call themselves theologians but don't really believe the Bible.  Must be some around like that.  Many Baptist, Evangelical, Reformed and others do not support those things.  We live in a fallen, evil world where many who profess to be religious do not accept the Bible or totally twist it.

[Army Guy]

50 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

1. I support a woman's right to an abortion in the knowledge that no woman makes that agonizing decision lightly. As a man, it is totally inappropriate for me to judge a woman in that situation.

2. It is important that children receive accurate information in sexual orientation and gender identity so they will understand it is natural. 10% of human beings are gay.

3. I support same sex marriage. So does the most of the Christian Churches.

4. I support medically assisted dying. I cannot judge a person in those circumstances and I hope none of us ever have to.

 Blackbird, I respect your views, but you understand I have different views, especially after  being married to a theologian and spending reteats with some of the leading theological scholars in the country.

I think all these things started out as noble ideas, but everything has morphed into something else. 

1.... Abortion may have had noble beginnings, but today in my opinion it has to turn into a last-ditch effort that should have been controlled by a birth control plan of some sort. Many, are too lazy or not educated enough about sex.

2.....In today's world being gay is socially excepted in most of Canada, as religion plays a lesser role in our lives, not going to lie, I believe in God, but I don't practice as much as I should. A person being gay has no effect on my life at all. 

Where I draw the line is in the million gender identities when a person can identify as a toaster or dump truck that's when I get off the bus. kind of like that guy who fought to have his driver's license picture with a colander on his head as it was part of his religion. And to teach our children something that has not been proven by science, is a little hard to take.

3.... gay marriage once again giver er it does not affect my life in one bit...

4....medically assisted dying is going downhill fast, there is a woman who was accepted because she has severe allergies and can not find an affordable apartment. and now it is OK to put the mentally ill down like it was your dog... again it had a noble beginning but today it is getting carried away.

[WestCanMan]

On 5/15/2022 at 10:02 AM, Michael Hardner said:

conservatives are to the left of the Democrats. 

In what way?

The Dems are big gov't, pro-spending all the way. If they got their way then tuition would be free, medical would be free, the gov't would be giving out money for anything and everything. Our conservatives are probably equal on medical but decidedly to the right of the Dems on issues where we differ. 

Our conservatives are more libertarian than the Dems on issues such as gun control and freedom and speech, but imo libertarian is neither a left nor right wing ideology, it's on a different spectrum. If you wanted to classify free speech and gun ownership on the "big gov't vs small gov't scale" then they'd definitely be small gov't options. 

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

United churches and Anglican have departed from the Bible long ago.  Anglican churches are divided over those issues.  Killing (abortion, MAID is condemned in the Bible which was inspired by God.   So you are in total opposition to the Bible.  The theologian you were talking to must be totally screwed up and must not be believe the Bible if they support those things.  Perhaps you were associating with people who call themselves theologians but don't really believe the Bible.  Must be some around like that.  Many Baptist, Evangelical, Reformed and others do not support those things.  We live in a fallen, evil world where many who profess to be religious do not accept the Bible or totally twist it.

According to the Bible, the uniform I wore as a Peace Officer was an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. I was often scheduled to work on the Sabbath and , according to the Bible, I should have been put to death. The Bible forbids eating bacon on my teen burger. Like most Christians, Hindus, Jews and Muslims, we cherry pick the rules. If a person is born gay, is that not the will of God?

Abortion is killing, but it is not murder. Murder is a legal term. I once had the opportunity to meet an elderly gentleman who was awarded the Victoria Cross because he devised a way to kill German kids and was a mass killer. If killing was murder, then he would have been a mass murderer. Abortion, like battle, is a terrible thing and who are we men to judge? 

As I have discussed with you before, I will not criticize your faith. The scholars I mentioned were not screwed up. They have a far greater knowledge to Biblical scripture and who wrote them than you or I. They are men and women of faith. The Bible was written by men and women, with all their flaws. The Book of Revelations was not supposed to be included in the Bible because it was deemed to be of dubious credibility. 

The United Church of Canada and the Anglican Church are the dominent protestant Churches in Canada. The Anglican Church could be deemed the State Church since our Head of State is the Church's Supreme Governor. The Roman Catholic Church is slowly moving in the direction of recognizing that sexual orientation is God's choice. It took the Vatican 400 years to admit Galilao was right, so we should cut them some slack for their hesitation.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

According to the Bible, the uniform I wore as a Peace Officer was an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. I was often scheduled to work on the Sabbath and , according to the Bible, I should have been put to death. The Bible forbids eating bacon on my teen burger. Like most Christians, Hindus, Jews and Muslims, we cherry pick the rules. If a person is born gay, is that not the will of God?

Abortion is killing, but it is not murder. Murder is a legal term. I once had the opportunity to meet an elderly gentleman who was awarded the Victoria Cross because he devised a way to kill German kids and was a mass killer. If killing was murder, then he would have been a mass murderer. Abortion, like battle, is a terrible thing and who are we men to judge? 

As I have discussed with you before, I will not criticize your faith. The scholars I mentioned were not screwed up. They have a far greater knowledge to Biblical scripture and who wrote them than you or I. They are men and women of faith. The Bible was written by men and women, with all their flaws. The Book of Revelations was not supposed to be included in the Bible because it was deemed to be of dubious credibility. 

The United Church of Canada and the Anglican Church are the dominent protestant Churches in Canada. The Anglican Church could be deemed the State Church since our Head of State is the Church's Supreme Governor. The Roman Catholic Church is slowly moving in the direction of recognizing that sexual orientation is God's choice. It took the Vatican 400 years to admit Galilao was right, so we should cut them some slack for their hesitation.

I think we may have been through some of this before so I will make it brief.

Your first paragraph claim is out of wack because you are talking about the Old Testament laws which churches today know and believe only applied to Israel back in that period in history.  They do not apply to the church and never did since the church began 2,000 years ago.  The only thing in the Old Testament that clearly applies today are the ten commandments except the Sabbath which for the church, the day of rest is the Lord's Day.  But it is not given the same character as the Sabbath as Christians are not restricted as to what they can do or not do on the Lord's Day, Sunday.  There is no Sabbath for Christians because the New Testament says clearly we are not under the law.  The other nine commandments apply because they are a guide for all time and they are re-stated in the New Testament.  

The Bible clearly shows the unborn child is a person.  Google abortion and the Bible and read some of the articles.  It gives references to verses in the Bible that demonstrate God considers the unborn as persons.  You cannot hide behind the claim of judging because we are to judge evil of course.  We are to oppose abortion.  

Sodomy is condemned in both the Old and New Testaments.  See the King James Bible on it.  Again Google it and look for KJV articles.   It doesn't really matter what some churches do because many have fallen away from the Bible.  The Bible is the final authority, not mainline apostate churches.  Read some articles.  You can find articles on both sides of the issue on homosexuality.  Some claim people are born that way;  others say it is an acquired behavior perhaps through social interactions and influences.  I won't argue that point.  It doesn't matter.  All that matters is what the Bible says.  If you want to believe sexual orientation is God's choice, that is your decision, but the Bible does not support you on that.  You cannot make the claim it is God's choice because the Bible does not teach that.

Edited May 17, 2022 by blackbird

[Queenmandy85]

As usual, an excellent response. We will continue to have differing opinions on many aspects, but this is a learning experience for me. Thanks.

[Moonbox]

On 5/16/2022 at 5:27 PM, Army Guy said:

1.... Abortion may have had noble beginnings, but today in my opinion it has to turn into a last-ditch effort that should have been controlled by a birth control plan of some sort. Many, are too lazy or not educated enough about sex.

Who cares?  Whether it was "whoopsy the pills and condoms didn't work" or "I got drunk and made a bad decision", I'm not sure why you think that women shouldn't have control of what grows in their own bodies.  Some of the women who seek abortion are already raising 2+ young children and can't afford another.   

On 5/16/2022 at 5:27 PM, Army Guy said:

Where I draw the line is in the million gender identities when a person can identify as a toaster or dump truck that's when I get off the bus. kind of like that guy who fought to have his driver's license picture with a colander on his head as it was part of his religion. And to teach our children something that has not been proven by science, is a little hard to take.

This can sometimes be confusing and jarring to me as well.  As you say, however, it doesn't affect me.  Where I feel there are legitimate concerns maybe is when trans athletes compete against females or whatever where there are some fairly obvious muscular-skeletal advantages.  

On 5/16/2022 at 5:27 PM, Army Guy said:

4....medically assisted dying is going downhill fast, there is a woman who was accepted because she has severe allergies and can not find an affordable apartment. and now it is OK to put the mentally ill down like it was your dog... again it had a noble beginning but today it is getting carried away.

Maybe.  I don't know too much about this but it's hard to gauge another person's suffering.  If you have 4 doctors pleading on behalf of the woman to find her safer accommodation and it's for naught and she decides her best outcome is suicide, that's pretty sad.  To me this sounds like a mental illness issue and as you say but that makes it really complicated.     

[Army Guy]

9 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Who cares?  Whether it was "whoopsy the pills and condoms didn't work" or "I got drunk and made a bad decision", I'm not sure why you think that women shouldn't have control of what grows in their own bodies.  Some of the women who seek abortion are already raising 2+ young children and can't afford another.   

This can sometimes be confusing and jarring to me as well.  As you say, however, it doesn't affect me.  Where I feel there are legitimate concerns maybe is when trans athletes compete against females or whatever where there are some fairly obvious muscular-skeletal advantages.  

Maybe.  I don't know too much about this but it's hard to gauge another person's suffering.  If you have 4 doctors pleading on behalf of the woman to find her safer accommodation and it's for naught and she decides her best outcome is suicide, that's pretty sad.  To me this sounds like a mental illness issue and as you say but that makes it really complicated.     

Look it is obvious that you and I are not going to see this topic eye to eye, where you see nothing more than medical waste, or rights over a body,  I see it as snuffing out a human life. And I personally think one should have a better reason to do that than I got drunk, or whoopsie I'm too lazy to take birth control... This is my opinion if you have 2 + kids already and are struggling, then one would think that person should be taking measures not to get pregnant, or maybe common sense has left the building and is never coming back. 

It affects everyone once they teach it in our schools, it then becomes fact, not to be questioned and yet science just shakes its head, and asks WTF, and when our courts have laws to enforce these silly motions...

The athlete thing is also going way too far, I'm surprised women's rights groups have not tackled this very thing. How far does it need to go before someone just says STOP, this is crazy. 

And now that she has applied if she is approved where do we draw the line, Had a bad day at work, doc end me, my wife won't bake me a cake, end me. and while pretty silly examples, how is not being able to find an affordable apartment not just as silly. That or everyone is on mushrooms and I'm the last guy to get his baggy... And now they are talking about including the mentally ill, who I thought were not capable of making a decision like this one, and if they are not who is making it for them their caregiver, kind of like the abortion thing, we don't want it just kill it... These were not the morals or values that I was taught, and I can not bridge the gap to understand why life is so disposable today.