West Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Aristides said: What do you think happened before legalized abortions? Why do you think it will be any different now? Women dying during clinical abortions is extremely rare. Yes her body, her choice. You make the choice a back alley abortion with no risk you will ever have to take. What a hero, you must be so proud of yourself. I'd guess it had more to do with CEOs of corporate America wishing to hide their marital unfaithfulness rather than this "compassion" bs you loons are trying to sell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack9000 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 Seeing how so many people on here love roe vs Wade being over turned how many of you agree with Clarence Thomas comments on same sex relations and marriage ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: At least you’re finally admitting that Republicans are trying to make America similar to Muslim countries. That’s something we’ve been saying about them for a couple of decades now. Abortion is a medical procedure and it is regulated the same way as any other medical procedure. What’s “allowed” is what is determined by medical regulations…NOT CRIMINAL LAW. For example there aren’t criminal laws that explicitly prevent a doctor from amputating your hand to treat a paper cut. That doesn’t mean it’s allowed or that it happens or that silly women will seek it out unless conservative men threaten them with imprisonment. Get it? In Canada we have no criminal laws against abortion but late abortions are extremely, extremely, extremely rare and for very very very extreme and rare reasons that require extensive documentation…not because criminal law requires it but because medical standards do. One of the things that makes conservatives so fascist is their need to criminalize everything they don’t like. In their fascist eyes, the only way to regulate something that needs regulating is to make it punishable by death or imprisonment. Are you just as fine with an abortion being performed right up to 9 months? For all the uproar and threats (and acts) of violence from the left over this decision, there may not be that much actual change. Blue states will at the very least keep their existing abortion laws or expand them even further. Red states may just keep the status quo and the same with purple states. The big woke corporations will even pay to take women, sorry I mean birthing people, out of state if necessary to have an abortion where the law may be different. After all, those woke CEO's don't want more people at home raising families, they want them on the factory floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 37 minutes ago, ironstone said: Were you pro choice about being vaxxed or not too? Yep. Are you under the false impression that people went to jail for not being vaxxed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, West said: I'd guess it had more to do with CEOs of corporate America wishing to hide their marital unfaithfulness rather than this "compassion" bs you loons are trying to sell Quote A 2014 policy statement issued by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG): "It is estimated that before 1973, 1.2 million U.S. women resorted to illegal abortion each year and that unsafe abortions caused as many as 5,000 annual deaths." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ironstone said: Are you just as fine with an abortion being performed right up to 9 months? I don’t need to be fine with it it’s not my place to decide. What I’m fine with is leaving that up to women and medical professionals and the experts responsible for regulating such activity. Grandstanding politicians, who have no medical expertise, and threats under the criminal code have no legitimate role to play here. There are already criminal code provisions that address medical malpractice in the event that doctor unnecessarily amputates a limb or withdraws life support etc without proper reason or authority and those would also apply to unnecessary/ unreasonable late abortions. Edited June 25, 2022 by BeaverFever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 24 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said: There is more. From science: Anesthetics work by blocking memory access that prevents you from associating your stored experiences. This is also why we do not remember great details and I do not know ONE who could claim to remember 'feeling' much when they were still unborn fetuses, although traces of this may exist trivially. So before we are two, our systems are LEARNING to both 'evalutate' something environmentally as being pain/pleasure as well as those thought processes that derive interpretation of what is or is not good/bad. While two year olds certainly 'feel' sensations, before that, a gradual process of LEARNING what to assign to feelings has to be developed BY the environement. A baby has to LEARN to sense what is pain and it requires windows of develoment that arbitrarily assign what is in the present post birth environement. A baby doesn't initally cry, for instance, because it is sad or in pain or some other discomfort but is a genetic set of reactions that WE as parents put 'value' into. For instance, the first cry may be the reaction needed to clear the amniotic fluid out of the lungs. The baby only learns the association of crying as 'discomfort' when its environment teaches them how to assign the event as something by reactive parent's. They also need time for their brain to assign which spaces the baby should hold the memories that are also needed as mentioned above is needed for sensation. Many animals, like cats, do not have memory placed aside for sight and so can become blind AFTER they are born if the window of development lacks information during that period. The same goes for baby development long AFTER they are born and why we do not remember details of those periods. Babies do not have 'preferences'. Think for instance about how odd that many presume about their premature child's power to know whether they prefer homosexual behaviours or not. I'm on the side that says they LACK such assignments early on and so would, if any feelings existed at all, lack a desire for sexual favor nor disfavor. You likely do not remember how you learned to walk. This is because the brain of a child is undefined by having strong variable connections that lack strict pathways. So the baby needs time to PRUNE the hardwired excess of neural connections to DEFINE the shortcuts that our emotional sense of comforts and values. So such children may lack complete assignments of sensation not being able to differentiate between what would eventually be defining of one's sense of pain or pleasure. Babies have genetic defaults that permit them to go into a protection mode when harmed by overwhelming signals. Even a two year old may survive certain events that would doom more mature ones. This explains why for instance children can survive a drowning by being revived: their system is predefined like many other animals in the wild to NOT interpret the shock of traumatic sensations to the same degree we have when older. They are also more 'plastic' and this flexibility is also due to the excessive connections. These rational non-religious arguments demonstate at least a potential justification based upon evolutionary logic that far superceeds any opinion based upon some mystical religioius interpretation. While it is not to be favored is an excuse to not use other birth control preventions at all, and may permit the pychological supports one may include in one's familiar religions, But the overconcern about a fetus by you guys is fucking SUSPECT when you believe in other odd beliefs that suggest you are only preferring OTHER children not to be aborted for some ulterior interests and NOT the child's welfare. The 'liberals' have far more compassion universally IN ACTION than the subjective IN-GROUP mindset of the conservatives who believe in intrinsic rights to 'family' autonomy exclusive of other's right to overrule. Your side supports exploiting any advantages that empowers you economically also. Thus, you prove suspect when pretending an odd sudden compassion for the unborn of OTHERS outside your own family.(?) An unborn child is certainly less significant than one who is born and an older person who has been here longer also has more 'value' for demonstrating maturity. So why would you guys favor destroying the lives of adults unless you have some sick fetish about dumb pre-intellectualized beings that babies represent in the same way one favors irrationally a puppy versus a full grown dog who has 'earned' the experience that gives them their personality. If you have preference for immaturity over a being that is not even fully developed until it is already born and still requires years just to begin to speak, what higher virtue can we expect of your opinion about mature things? Man, that was a lot of blather to tell us humans develop. As to the argument potential implies value - at least it does under the law... Shapiro already explained that if you cared to listen and this is the third time I've mentioned it. Plus ironstone gave you the video. Here it is again: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, West said: Lol.. here we go. We live in a very sick society when people say this So do you believe that people 'earn' their predisposition to exist regardless of the validity of life they actually live? What happened to compassion for suffering IN LIFE for those who did not CHOOSE to exist by irresponsible parents whom you expect should nevertheless BECOME the loving parents they aren't for their own willingness to choose abortion as an option in the first place? Do you think these immature 'parents' you'd be willing to toss in jail anyways still qualify to raise their unwanted children? You should at least want to know IF the potential parent is opting for abortion so that you can KNOW these are unfit parentally qualified. Then, given these are 'vile' criminals, you'd have to follow up and be sure that loving parents do exist elsewhere to adopt which enters the power of government to be permitted to also judge bad parents versus good ones, something you might also not want government to be involved with.(?) Look, to prove your sincerity, demonstrate your compassion and faith for ALL who suffer and die for ALL clear non-controversial topics that you simultaneously support. I believe that if you count the deaths up, you'd learn that the Right-wing ideals tend to foster more death and suffering of others far more than those who gamble on the sincerity of a women asserting their need to abort. If 99.99 % of gun owners are innocent users, than you should be able to trust that the majority of abortions are done with the same default of faith you grant these folks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: I don’t need to be fine with it it’s not my place to decide. What I’m fine with is leaving that up to women and medical professionals and the experts responsible for regulating such activity. Grandstanding politicians, who have no medical expertise, and threats under the criminal code have no legitimate role to play here. There are already criminal code provisions that address medical malpractice in the event that doctor unnecessarily amputates a limb or withdraws life support etc without proper reason or authority and those would also apply to unnecessary/ unreasonable late abortions. With this attitude might as well just toss every law out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 43 minutes ago, Aristides said: Every women who dies having a back alley abortion will be on you self righteous morons. Yes, please stop the hysterics. They will now bring the baby to full term and have it. Off the top of my head I can think of 3 couples I know that would have been thrilled to adopt your baby, or the theoretical back alley baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said: So do you believe that people 'earn' their predisposition to exist regardless of the validity of life they actually live? What happened to compassion for suffering IN LIFE for those who did not CHOOSE to exist by irresponsible parents whom you expect should nevertheless BECOME the loving parents they aren't for their own willingness to choose abortion as an option in the first place? Do you think these immature 'parents' you'd be willing to toss in jail anyways still qualify to raise their unwanted children? You should at least want to know IF the potential parent is opting for abortion so that you can KNOW these are unfit parentally qualified. Then, given these are 'vile' criminals, you'd have to follow up and be sure that loving parents do exist elsewhere to adopt which enters the power of government to be permitted to also judge bad parents versus good ones, something you might also not want government to be involved with.(?) Look, to prove your sincerity, demonstrate your compassion and faith for ALL who suffer and die for ALL clear non-controversial topics that you simultaneously support. I believe that if you count the deaths up, you'd learn that the Right-wing ideals tend to foster more death and suffering of others far more than those who gamble on the sincerity of a women asserting their need to abort. If 99.99 % of gun owners are innocent users, than you should be able to trust that the majority of abortions are done with the same default of faith you grant these folks. I believe life is a gift. I hear alot of these crazy slogans ie men want to control women. What I see with the pro abortionists is women want to control everyone else.. they alone believe they get to chose which life is worth living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 25 minutes ago, Aristides said: What do you think happened before legalized abortions? Why do you think it will be any different now? Women dying during clinical abortions is extremely rare. Yes her body, her choice. You make the choice a back alley abortion with no risk you will ever have to take. What a hero, you must be so proud of yourself. We live in a different age - culturally, legally, and technologically. The kinds of pressure put on unwed mothers that used to exist no longer does. There will be opportunity in most states to travel for abortions. Birth control is available now in a way it wasn't during the era of infamous "back alley abortions". Including day-after pills. And I'll wager new abortion options will appear in the internet age. Any fat girl with a "my body, my choice" T shirt will be able to find safe abortion options if she can find a way to need one. There will be little need for "back alley abortions." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: Half a century of jurisprudence says the 14th amendment applies to abortion. a half century of shitty jurisprudence that has now been remedied woop woop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, Aristides said: So the crazy activists make up absures "estimates" and we are supposed to just say nothing ??. Like this nonsensical climate change hoax shooting gas up to $2 a liter and making it near impossible to pay your bills. Their solution? Kill your children in utero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, sharkman said: Yes, please stop the hysterics. They will now bring the baby to full term and have it. Off the top of my head I can think of 3 couples I know that would have been thrilled to adopt your baby, or the theoretical back alley baby. That's worth noticing too. I don't know how it was in back your "back alley abortion" days, but these days there are line-ups to adopt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 Just now, Infidel Dog said: We live in a different age - culturally, legally, and technologically. The kinds of pressure put on unwed mothers that used to exist no longer does. There will be opportunity in most states to travel for abortions. Birth control is available now in a way it wasn't during the era of infamous "back alley abortions". Including day-after pills. And I'll wager new abortion options will appear in the internet age. Any fat girl with a "my body, my choice" T shirt will be able to find safe abortion options if she can find a way to need one. There will be little need for "back alley abortions." All conjecture on a subject you obviously know nothing about. People traveling for abortions will be for people who can afford to travel. Poor people will have to either resort to back alleys or bring up the kids in poverty. What options will the internet provide pray tell? You are intent on shutting down safe options, that's why you are rejoicing over this decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: Moreover, The second amendment doesn’t mention anything about bump stocks, assault rifles or concealed carry permits. It also clearly states that the right to bear arms is within the context of a “well-regulated militia”…but the current right wing judges “interpret” the second amendment to apply to nearly all modern firearms and accessories and that the militia reference as irrelevant in modern times. They seem to be pretty selective and biased when deciding when to take the constitution literally and when to be interpretive, don’t you think? it says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed not the right of the militia the British militia infringed on the American people's right to keep and bear arms hence the second amendment existing in the first place Edited June 25, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 Just now, Infidel Dog said: That's worth noticing too. I don't know how it was in back your "back alley abortion" days, but these days there are line-ups to adopt. It's obvious you don't know much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Aristides said: All conjecture on a subject you obviously know nothing about. Really? And what shall we call your fantasy world of back alley abortions on every street corner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Aristides said: All conjecture on a subject you obviously know nothing about. People traveling for abortions will be for people who can afford to travel. Poor people will have to either resort to back alleys or bring up the kids in poverty. What options will the internet provide pray tell? You are intent on shutting down safe options, that's why you are rejoicing over this decision. ever heard of adoption? you are invoking a false dichotomy to sell your bullshit Edited June 25, 2022 by Yzermandius19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: Man, that was a lot of blather to tell us humans develop. As to the argument potential implies value - at least it does under the law... Shapiro already explained that if you cared to listen and this is the third time I've mentioned it. Plus ironstone gave you the video. Here it is again: Why expect me to trust a known conservative nutcases who defends RELIGIOUS beliefs about 'value'? This closet case also lacks a valid argument given I already pointed out that the conservative view DOES discriminately 'stab people' most particularly when they are awake, especially when they back up their fearless compassionate need for guns, death sentences, and the war machine used only to profit selfishly at the expense of the unknown people they are harming half-way across the world. This has no validity whatsoever whoever thought this was a mic drop is appealing to the rhetorical con of asserting what is 'true' only needs repreating it or putting it in bold terms so that the dumb audience hopefully trusts that this comment was likey mentioned by some third-party unbiased and univested neutral viewpoint it is not. He is not a credible arguer outside of one's anti-intellectual FAITH in conservative politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: Really? And what shall we call your fantasy world of back alley abortions on every street corner? Yes really. I don't live in your fantasy world. There are almost a half million American kids in foster care. Why not adopt one of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said: Why expect me to trust a known conservative nutcases who defends RELIGIOUS beliefs about 'value'? This closet case also lacks a valid argument given I already pointed out that the conservative view DOES discriminately 'stab people' most particularly when they are awake, especially when they back up their fearless compassionate need for guns, death sentences, and the war machine used only to profit selfishly at the expense of the unknown people they are harming half-way across the world. This has no validity whatsoever whoever thought this was a mic drop is appealing to the rhetorical con of asserting what is 'true' only needs repreating it or putting it in bold terms so that the dumb audience hopefully trusts that this comment was likey mentioned by some third-party unbiased and univested neutral viewpoint it is not. He is not a credible arguer outside of one's anti-intellectual FAITH in conservative politics. Shapiro is vastly more credible than you are and his arguments are vastly better than yours if Ben Shapiro is a low bar that just speaks to how you aren't even capable of clearing it and makes you look even worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Aristides said: Yes really. I don't live in your fantasy world. There are almost a half million American kids in foster care. Why not adopt one of them? how many of those kids would prefer foster care to not being alive? I'm guessing a lot abortion is worse attempting to justify abortion by pointing out the pitfalls of the foster care system is asinine Edited June 25, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted June 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Aristides said: Yes really. I don't live in your fantasy world. There are almost a half million American kids in foster care. Why not adopt one of them? Now and days your race is the most important factor they consider in adoptions. If you are white, you are back of the line. The anti life liberal culture at its finest Edited June 25, 2022 by West 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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