Norway - Collective Wealth

[August1991]

Norway has a population of about 6 million people.

Through its wealth fund, Norway has a collective wealth of about $1.3 trillion.

https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1xdtrfjm5hgkg/Can-Norway-s-1-3-Trillion-Oil-Fund-Actually-Give-Up-Oil

IOW, if an immigrant becomes Norwegian, or a foreigner marries a Norwegian, the foreigner receives about $200,000.

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Norway is not part of the EU; Norway makes no contribution to the EU budget. Norway has its own currency.

Alberta is part of Canada; contributes to Canada's equalization payments. Albertans assume any debt when others borrow. 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by August1991

[Aristides]

On 4/7/2022 at 12:37 AM, August1991 said:

Norway has a population of about 6 million people.

Through its wealth fund, Norway has a collective wealth of about $1.3 trillion.

https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1xdtrfjm5hgkg/Can-Norway-s-1-3-Trillion-Oil-Fund-Actually-Give-Up-Oil

IOW, if an immigrant becomes Norwegian, or a foreigner marries a Norwegian, the foreigner receives about $200,000.

=====

Norway is not part of the EU; Norway makes no contribution to the EU budget. Norway has its own currency.

Alberta is part of Canada; contributes to Canada's equalization payments. Albertans assume any debt when others borrow. 

 

 

 

 Norway is not a member of the EU but is part of the Economic Zone which gives it access to the single market and so is subject to the rules that govern it. It contributes about 790 million Euros for the privilege. It is also part of the Schengen Area which is the border control free travel area. Only 19 of the 27 EU member countries use the Euro, the rest have their own currencies.

[August1991]

7 hours ago, Aristides said:

 Norway is not a member of the EU but is part of the Economic Zone which gives it access to the single market and so is subject to the rules that govern it. It contributes about 790 million Euros for the privilege. It is also part of the Schengen Area which is the border control free travel area. Only 19 of the 27 EU member countries use the Euro, the rest have their own currencies.

Norway has its own currency.

790 million euros? That's about $1 billion.

Albertan taxpayers give about $10 billion to other Canadian provincial governments every year.

Europe has about 330 million  people. Canada, about 35 million.

To compare, a Norwegian is giving about 1 cent to "Europe" while an Albertan is giving $1 to Canada. 

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Of course, Norway has access to an ocean.

How to define "rich": Money? Not at all. Wealth is options. The freedom to choose. Rich people can choose.  

Edited June 20, 2022 by August1991

[Aristides]

6 hours ago, August1991 said:

Norway has its own currency.

790 million euros? That's about $1 billion.

Albertan taxpayers give about $10 billion to other Canadian provincial governments every year.

Europe has about 330 million  people. Canada, about 35 million.

To compare, a Norwegian is giving about 1 cent to "Europe" while an Albertan is giving $1 to Canada. 

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Of course, Norway has access to an ocean.

How to define "rich": Money? Not at all. Wealth is options. The freedom to choose. Rich people can choose.  

Norway does have its own currency. So do Sweden and Denmark who are EU members.

Alberta tax payers pay Canadian taxes the same as other Canadians but yes, they do send a lot more revenue to Ottawa than Alberta gets back in federal spending. 

Alberta s land locked. Alberta and the rest of Canada need each other.

[Aristides]

Quote

 

Europe has about 330 million  people. Canada, about 35 million.

To compare, a Norwegian is giving about 1 cent to "Europe" while an Albertan is giving $1 to Canada. 

Actually it works out to about 140 Euro's per Norwegian.

[Queenmandy85]

Alberta had a heritage fund like Norway, but they spent it all. Norwegians pay very high taxes and are mostly happy to do so, in return for the services the Government provides. Alberta pays low taxes. Albertans are part of the most wonderful country in the world and the $1 a year is a tiny price to pay. Canada is a free country. If money flows from Alberta to another province, and that upsets you, you are free to move to any province that is on the receiving end. Saskatchewan is in the same boat. It is easy to forget just a few years ago during a severe shortage of feed for cattle, farmers in Quebec donated train loads of feed to Alberta and Saskatchewan. The Premier of Saskatchewan phoned the Prime Minister of Canada to alert him that the farmers in Saskatchewan were in serious trouble and the Prime minister cut a cheque for a billion dollars immediately to help out. (That PM was from Quebec.)

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Alberta had a heritage fund like Norway, but they spent it all. Norwegians pay very high taxes and are mostly happy to do so, in return for the services the Government provides. Alberta pays low taxes. Albertans are part of the most wonderful country in the world and the $1 a year is a tiny price to pay. Canada is a free country. If money flows from Alberta to another province, and that upsets you, you are free to move to any province that is on the receiving end. Saskatchewan is in the same boat. It is easy to forget just a few years ago during a severe shortage of feed for cattle, farmers in Quebec donated train loads of feed to Alberta and Saskatchewan. The Premier of Saskatchewan phoned the Prime Minister of Canada to alert him that the farmers in Saskatchewan were in serious trouble and the Prime minister cut a cheque for a billion dollars immediately to help out. (That PM was from Quebec.)

Norway doesn't share its revenues with nine other provinces and three territories, it keeps everything. Comparing a country with a province of a country is dishonest. Because of geography, Alberta also depends on the rest of the country for access to world markets, Norway depends on no one. The RoC's resistance to pipelines to tidewater has made Alberta a captive supplier to the US. The 20 billion more Alberta sends to Ottawa than it receives in federal spending would add up to a trillion dollars over the past 50 years. If it were independent it would have to maintain its own military and other federal jurisdictions but of course, it currently contributes a significant amount to those existing organizations. 

I still think Alberta is better off in Confederation and there is no question the RoC is better off.

[Queenmandy85]

Alberta only has those large revenues until the oil runs out. Those oil reserves also belong to future generations, but the Alberta government wants to sell it off to foreigners for a tiny fraction of what it would be worth when the rest of the world has exhausted its petroleum reserves. I hate to repeat myself, but without oil, coal and iron, we are back in the neolithic period.

[Queenmandy85]

Remember, up until recently, Alberta was a have not province subsidized by eastern Canada. It was only since they found oil that Alberta suddenly became prosperous. 

We are Canadians first. We are family and we take care of each other. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Remember, up until recently, Alberta was a have not province subsidized by eastern Canada. It was only since they found oil that Alberta suddenly became prosperous. 

We are Canadians first. We are family and we take care of each other. 

Alberta has received 0.02% of all equalization payments. The last was in 1964/65.

So they became prosperous and the RoC benefited. 

Yes, we do look after each other, I just get sick of people dragging up the Norway canard.

[Queenmandy85]

We have something Norway doesn't have, a lot of uranium.

[August1991]

6 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Remember, up until recently, Alberta was a have not province subsidized by eastern Canada....

That's the Trudeau Snr myth.

[August1991]

6 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Alberta only has those large revenues until the oil runs out.

Given the oil sands, it won't.

Until some Michael Faraday/Steve Jobs figures out a way to store power.

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Like Austria-Hungary once was, Canada is a civilised country of different languages.

I hope we don't become Sri Lanka.

Edited June 21, 2022 by August1991

[Queenmandy85]

14 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Given the oil sands, it won't.

Until some Michael Faraday/Steve Jobs figures out a way to store power.

====

Like Austria-Hungary once was, Canada is a civilised country of different languages.

I hope we don't become Sri Lanka.

The oil sands hold a finite amount of viable oil. It will run out. They stopped making it 65 million years ago. 

In order to store energy, you first have to generate it. Uranium fired reactors are the best source of energy for the world until we can get thorium on line and eventually fusion. But we have to stop using coal and oil for energy. They are too valuable and a finite resource our decendents will need to survive.

[Nationalist]

18 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Remember, up until recently, Alberta was a have not province subsidized by eastern Canada. It was only since they found oil that Alberta suddenly became prosperous. 

We are Canadians first. We are family and we take care of each other. 

If we are going to take care of each other, then why are the pipelines not completed? That would be a huge benefit to our "family".

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

If we are going to take care of each other, then why are the pipelines not completed? That would be a huge benefit to our "family".

Family includes future generations. That is why we save up to leave an inheritance to our children.

Why is Alberta in such a hurry to give away our grand childrens' birthright. At the moment, we cannot sell our oil for what it is worth. If we preserve the resource for the future, when the Middle East, Russia and the US exhaust their reserves, we will still have oil for future generations. We have enough uranium to last a couple of centuries, by which time, the world will have transitioned from uranium to thorium. None of that is worth anything if we don't have the oil to lubricate the machines. The minute the oill runs out, we are back to living in the dark ages. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[Queenmandy85]

21 hours ago, Aristides said:

Norway doesn't share its revenues with nine other provinces and three territories,

Alberta is part of Canada. We are all Canadians. Saskatchewan and BC are where I live, but I am Canadian first and only. We are all Canadians, first and only. 

[Nationalist]

2 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Why is Alberta in such a hurry to give away our grand childrens' birthright. At the moment, we cannot sell our oil for what it is worth. If we preserve the resource for the future, when the Middle East, Russia and the US exhaust their reserves, we will still have oil for future generations. We have enough uranium to last a couple of centuries, by which time, the world will have transitioned from uranium to thorium. None of that is worth anything if we don't have the oil to lubricate the machines. The minute the oill runs out, we are back to living in the dark ages. The other scenario is that we continue burning fossil fuels and the climate heats up. That will lead to a mass extinction to rival the permian. 

"AHHH...WE ALL GONNA DIIIEEE!!!"

The raw fact is...oil and gas will always have a use. But the burning there of is actively being curtailed. Leaving aside the wisdom of that before we have a reasonable replacement, its evident that within 20 or so years, we will no longer be burning fossil fuels for energy. THIS it the time to capitalize on our resources.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

"AHHH...WE ALL GONNA DIIIEEE!!!"

The raw fact is...oil and gas will always have a use. But the burning there of is actively being curtailed. Leaving aside the wisdom of that before we have a reasonable replacement, its evident that within 20 or so years, we will no longer be burning fossil fuels for energy. THIS it the time to capitalize on our resources.

You are missing the point. You cannot operate any machine without lubricating oil. You cannot build a machine without steel, for which you need coal and iron. If we "capitalize on our resources" now, how will future generations survive. These resourses belong to them as well. What do you propose to ensure future generations will have these resourses?

 

[Nationalist]

13 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You are missing the point. You cannot operate any machine without lubricating oil. You cannot build a machine without steel, for which you need coal and iron. If we "capitalize on our resources" now, how will future generations survive. These resourses belong to them as well. What do you propose to ensure future generations will have these resourses?

 

No I don't think I am missing the point. This planet is made of a wide range of materials. But most of all...its carbon based. The Earth is a carbon making machine. Does that mean the resources are infinite? Certainly not. Does it mean we are in any danger of depleting said resources any time soon? Certainly not.

I like to maintain...in spite of all the evidence to the contrary...that Humanity will find new and better ways/materials to use for our purposes. So to cut off our noses, to spite our faces seems...slightly irresponsible.

[Queenmandy85]

5 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I like to maintain...in spite of all the evidence to the contrary...that Humanity will find new and better ways/materials to use for our purposes.

True. That is how we came up with nuclear power. But so far, there has never been a substitute for steel. You cannot generate electricity without steel and lubricant. 

How much do you think an American manufacturer will be willing to pay for a barrel of Canadian oil when Canada is the only source of viable petrolem left in the world? In the near future, there will not be viable sources of petroleum and the country with the last supply will be able to name it's price. So why are we giving it away, instead of saving it until everyone else has run out? We will be able to determine who gets it and who doesn't.

[Nationalist]

42 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

True. That is how we came up with nuclear power. But so far, there has never been a substitute for steel. You cannot generate electricity without steel and lubricant. 

How much do you think an American manufacturer will be willing to pay for a barrel of Canadian oil when Canada is the only source of viable petrolem left in the world? In the near future, there will not be viable sources of petroleum and the country with the last supply will be able to name it's price. So why are we giving it away, instead of saving it until everyone else has run out? We will be able to determine who gets it and who doesn't.

Because we a;lso have to maintain our standard of living today?

[Queenmandy85]

45 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Because we a;lso have to maintain our standard of living today?

You don't think building and fuelling reactors and building, electrifying and running the rail system will create the greatest prosperity this nation has ever known? No more having to pay the carbon tax. Export of nuclear technology will bring in far more money than giving away our oil to foreigners. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You don't think building and fuelling reactors and building, electrifying and running the rail system will create the greatest prosperity this nation has ever known? No more having to pay the carbon tax. Export of nuclear technology will bring in far more money than giving away our oil to foreigners. 

I'm good with nuclear power. Sell it to the Libbies...and good luck with that.

[August1991]

On 6/22/2022 at 2:00 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

1. The oil sands hold a finite amount of viable oil. It will run out. They stopped making it 65 million years ago. 

2. In order to store energy, you first have to generate it...

1. I'll take that post as sarcasm.

2. Uh no. The earth receives/has/can produce zillions of "clean" HecaGiga tonnes of energy. Our problem: We have no way to store this energy for when we need it or in the way we need it.