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Russia's Civil War


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On 3/16/2022 at 8:19 AM, BubberMiley said:

Says the Quebecer. :lol:

Bubbler,

Lviv was once Lemberg. Like Montreal, it was a truly bilingual city - unilingual people (people who speak only one language) lived together. Mostly German speaking Jews and Polish-speaking Catholics. Lemberg was in the Austrian-Hungarian Empire so it was a multicultural mix.

 

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On 3/16/2022 at 9:52 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Are you out of your mind? Russians are bombarding defenseless Ukrainians every day killing many including women and children and have entered the territory with hundreds of thousands of troops, tanks and armored vehicles and you say this is not an invasion because most Ukrainians can communicate in Russian!!!!!!!!.

It's an ugly - very ugly - civil war.

Russians and Ukrainians are essentially the same. Like Red State and Blue State Americans.

 

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On 3/16/2022 at 1:06 PM, Faramir said:

I can't believe I am going to take the globalist position on this but Putin is no saint.  Just like Merkel was former Stasi, Putin is former KGB.  He dreams of a renewed Soviet Union.  And I believe his embrace of religion is just another way for him to have appeal to the masses.  He is no more Christian than Hillary is not a 3 time murderess. 

Putin's another Napoleon/Hitler?

I thought about this too. Another European psycho/whacko that wants to dominate the world. Every 100 years or so, Europeans kill each other: Thirty Years War and so on.

=====

Maybe I'm wrong but Putin is simply doing what Catherine the Great already did. He is protecting Russia.

PS. She was Prussian.

Edited by August1991
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On 3/16/2022 at 1:12 PM, eyeball said:

You figure we're Martians or something?

Eyeball,

It's better if foreigners avoid getting involved in some debates.

IMHO, de Gaulle should have said nothing in 1967.

And Clinton was wrong to speak in 1995.

=====

Bush Jnr had no business in Iraq.

Hillary had no business in Libya. 

Edited by August1991
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30 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Eyeball,

It's better if foreigners avoid getting involved in some debates.

IMHO, de Gaulle should have said nothing in 1967.

And Clinton was wrong to speak in 1995.

=====

Bush Jnr had no business in Iraq.

Hillary had no business in Libya. 

And Putin has no business in Ukraine.

You know me, I've been advocating a hard strict line on the issue of coddling dictators for years and at this point I think I'm almost ready to accept a nuclear exchange if that's what it takes for humanity to wake up.

If humanity can't or won't then so be it.  At least if its now then many of the people who should have known better than to make authoritarianism respectable will live long enough to see and suffer the consequences of their moral failure.

The path to enlightenment is painful and there's probably no turning back at this point. But that said, is there really anything worth going back to?

Edited by eyeball
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6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

....

You know me, I've been advocating a hard strict line on the issue of coddling dictators for years and at this point I think I'm almost ready to accept a nuclear exchange if that's what it takes for humanity to wake up.

...

For a civil war among Slavs, you would have an American launch a nuclear attack?

In a discussion with a friend, I wondered where Putin would first launch his weapons.

Warsaw - that would send a signal to America.

 

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6 minutes ago, August1991 said:

For a civil war among Slavs, you would have an American launch a nuclear attack?

No, I wouldn't.  I would have a nuclear exchange now rather than later though - because I think one is an  inevitability for the reasons I outlined and I think the people responsible for making it inevitable need to see and feel it so they can learn and maybe teach people something.

Quote

 

In a discussion with a friend, I wondered where Putin would first launch his weapons.

Warsaw - that would send a signal to America.

 

Given the performance of Putin's conventional forces I expect most of his nuclear forces will fizzle and blow up in their silo's.

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13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, I wouldn't.  I would have a nuclear exchange now rather than later though...

For the record, I reckon that this is not an extension of the "cold war" - Communists vs Capitalists, Reagan vs Brezhnev.

Reagan won that war.

====

This is a civil war - among Slavs.

Edited by August1991
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1 hour ago, August1991 said:

I suggest that you use google translate "on edge" into Russian.

The world may see this one way.

Russians see it otherwise.

the way Russia sees it doesn't matter

all that matters is how the Ukrainians see it

and the Ukrainians are telling the Russians to go to hell with the idea that Ukraine is just part of Russia

if the Russians were correct about that assumption

then the Ukrainians would have greeted the Russians as liberators, as Putin expected

but that isn't what happened, because Ukraine is a real nation now

the Russians are paying the price for being so wrong about that

as we speak

Edited by Yzermandius19
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15 minutes ago, August1991 said:

For the record, I reckon that this is not an extension of the "cold war" - Communists vs Capitalists, Reagan vs Brezhnev.

Reagan won that war.

He couldn't have done it without Afghanistan.

Quote

 

====

This is a civil war - among Slavs.

 

I see it as a war among Earthlings.

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1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the way Russia sees it doesn't matter

all that matters is how the Ukrainians see it

...

Russian? Ukrainian? 

What would Trudeau Snr have said/done?

(BTW, he was a federalist more than a democrat. I'm a conservative.)  

====

I completely disagree with Putin's method. Chubais was correct to post a photo of Nemtsov. 

=====

I am appalled with how quickly people trust the MSM.

I am amazed how quickly people learn otherwise.

 

 

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1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Russian? Ukrainian? 

What would Trudeau Snr have said/done?

(BTW, he was a federalist more than a democrat. I'm a conservative.)  

====

I don't care what Pierre Trudeau would say

his opinion isn't relevant to the question at hand

Ukraine is an independent nation now

and no matter how big Russia's temper tantrum that it isn't gets

won't alter reality

Edited by Yzermandius19
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11 minutes ago, Faramir said:

The history I suppose IS complicated, but Russians knew enough that Ukrainians were not one of THEM in WWII.  That is when they massacred hundreds of Ukrainian officers - that Churchill helped cover up.  I still think we should not be involved in this though.

I believe the Katyn massacre was a massacre of Polish officers and other Poles. FDR also felt it expedient to cover it up.

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On 3/15/2022 at 10:51 PM, August1991 said:

 Russian soldiers can speak to local people.

-this is not an invasion   

IME, Ukrainians and Russians have no problem talking.

IME, Canadians and Americans have no trouble talking.  Consequently, if the US invaded Canada, it would be a civil war, yes?  And, since the British and Americans both speak English, if armed forces were sent from the England into the US, that would also be civil war.  Nearly every person in Europe speaks English as well as their native language; given that they can easily understand each other, any war between nation-states should be classified as a civil war.

It's an interesting definition of civil war, that's for sure.

 

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18 minutes ago, dialamah said:

IME, Canadians and Americans have no trouble talking.  Consequently, if the US invaded Canada, it would be a civil war, yes?  And, since the British and Americans both speak English, if armed forces were sent from the England into the US, that would also be civil war.  Nearly every person in Europe speaks English as well as their native language; given that they can easily understand each other, any war between nation-states should be classified as a civil war.

It's an interesting definition of civil war, that's for sure.

 

So well stated comments. Bravo. This is a brutal invasion by Nazi Russian regime and its army.

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On 3/19/2022 at 11:22 AM, dialamah said:

IME, Canadians and Americans have no trouble talking.  Consequently, if the US invaded Canada, it would be a civil war, yes?  And, since the British and Americans both speak English, if armed forces were sent from the England into the US, that would also be civil war....

 

Many people don't speak English. Or, they speak it well - like Swedes, or educated Indians.

======

 Every Russian can understand anyone in Ukraine or Belorus.

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On 3/19/2022 at 11:22 AM, dialamah said:

IME, Canadians and Americans have no trouble talking.  Consequently, if the US invaded Canada, it would be a civil war, yes?

If North Dakota attacked South Dakota, it would be a civil war. And I suspect Manitoba would stop these two idiots.

====

Europeans often fight. Americans are generally peaceful.

Europe is from Mars, America is from Venus.

 

Edited by August1991
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On 3/18/2022 at 3:37 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

I don't care what Pierre Trudeau would say

his opinion isn't relevant to the question at hand

Ukraine is an independent nation now

and no matter how big Russia's temper tantrum that it isn't gets

won't alter reality

Like Putin and XI, Trudeau Snr and Reagan understood the 19th century world - while imagining a 21st world.

Sadly, Trudeau Jnr (and Butts) only signal in the 20th century.

Edited by August1991
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