War In Ukraine

[Aristides]

The most common cluster munitions are designed to be used against people, not objects.

[Nationalist]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It looks like it used to be back in the 30's but the factory for the area got shut down long ago.  Seems like it's just kind of a residential district now with the old plant still standing but decomissioned. Apperently it got shelled early on and burnt down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrialnyi_District,_Kharkiv

whatever - i've never really been a fan of the cluster bomb ban anyway.  War is the worst kind of hell and civillians will always pay the highest price for it. If the russians targeted those areas i don't care what type of bomb it was, it's still a shitty thing to do. But that's why it's best not to have wars.

I don't think there's any real value comparing the 'moral merits' of one weapon's system over another until you get to the WMD's.

Granted. Yet IMO, these uranium missiles...bombs...whatever they are...leave a lasting negative effect behind for decades. It gets in our water and then in everything. That makes them insidious WMD.

[Moonbox]

19 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Granted. Yet IMO, these uranium missiles...bombs...whatever they are...leave a lasting negative effect behind for decades. It gets in our water and then in everything. That makes them insidious WMD.

If that were true, then the Russians with their own depleted uranium rounds would be using WMDs as well.  Do they tell you that on Russia Today?  

Fortunately, pufts of depleted uranium dust from small penetrators end up being farts in the wind, and the spookiness of the word "uranium" is exaggerated.  If you're not in the vehicle that gets hit, and you're not  licking DU rounds or fragments, you'll be alright.  

There are Gulf and Serbian war veterans still alive today with inoperable DU fragments in their body, ~30 years later.  

[Nationalist]

39 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

If that were true, then the Russians with their own depleted uranium rounds would be using WMDs as well.  Do they tell you that on Russia Today?  

Fortunately, pufts of depleted uranium dust from small penetrators end up being farts in the wind, and the spookiness of the word "uranium" is exaggerated.  If you're not in the vehicle that gets hit, and you're not  licking DU rounds or fragments, you'll be alright.  

There are Gulf and Serbian war veterans still alive today with inoperable DU fragments in their body, ~30 years later.  

And does any of this make poisoning the ground and water ok with you?

[Aristides]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

And does any of this make poisoning the ground and water ok with you?

You don't think any of the other destruction is affecting ground water? Targeting fuel dumps and other industrial facilities, fuel and oil from destroyed military equipment. Compared to a radiation leak at one of the nuclear power plants in the war zone, residue from DP rounds is nothing more than a fart in a hurricane.

[Nationalist]

8 minutes ago, Aristides said:

You don't think any of the other destruction is affecting ground water? Targeting fuel dumps and other industrial facilities, fuel and oil from destroyed military equipment. Compared to a radiation leak at one of the nuclear power plants in the war zone, residue from DP rounds is nothing more than a fart in a hurricane.

Well I glad you're not worried about radio active materials in our water and food chain. I am.

[Aristides]

10 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Well I glad you're not worried about radio active materials in our water and food chain. I am.

Almost all the radioactivity is removed from depleted uranium, maybe you should concern yourself with the real environmental impacts of this war.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Almost all the radioactivity is removed from depleted uranium, maybe you should concern yourself with the real environmental impacts of this war.

Like piles of dead slavs? I am concerned with that too.

Here have a stick of gum.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Like piles of dead slavs? I am concerned with that too.

Here have a stick of gum.

Sure you are.

[Moonbox]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

And does any of this make poisoning the ground and water ok with you?

No, but that's not at all what's happening.  If you spill a bit of gasoline on your driveway while you're filling your lawnmower, you're not calling in an environmental disaster, are you?  Gasoline is toxic after all. 

FYI you're ingesting and breathing in small amounts of (non-depleted) uranium every day.  Somehow you're still here.   

[Nationalist]

14 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

No, but that's not at all what's happening.  If you spill a bit of gasoline on your driveway while you're filling your lawnmower, you're not calling in an environmental disaster, are you?  Gasoline is toxic after all. 

FYI you're ingesting and breathing in small amounts of (non-depleted) uranium every day.  Somehow you're still here.   

Incredible. You're trying to justify radioactive material into our food chain.

Oh its just a small amount...

Just like years ago in Sudbury

But all the smoke just floats away...

[Moonbox]

27 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Incredible. You're trying to justify radioactive material into our food chain.

There's already radioactive material in your food chain.  There's radioactive material in the air you breath as well.  

27 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Oh its just a small amount...

Now you're getting it.  ?

 

[Nationalist]

8 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

There's already radioactive material in your food chain.  There's radioactive material in the air you breath as well.  

Now you're getting it.  ?

 

Huh...humans...

[Moonbox]

The Dinosaurs also had radioactive material in their food chain.  Basically every rock and every spec of dirt on the planet has small amounts of radionuclides from uranium-238, thorium-232 and potassium-40 decay. 

Our species has evolved for millions of years to co-exist with both cosmic and terrestrial radiation.  

 

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The Dinosaurs also had radioactive material in their food chain.  Basically every rock and every spec of dirt on the planet has small amounts of radionuclides from uranium-238, thorium-232 and potassium-40 decay. 

Our species has evolved for millions of years to co-exist with both cosmic and terrestrial radiation.  

 

Radon

[SpankyMcFarland]

More bad news in Russia’s backyard:

Quote

Chinese leader Xi Jinping is rolling out the red carpet for Central Asian nations this week as Beijing attempts to expand its reach into a region that has long been regarded as Russia’s sphere of influence. 

The leaders of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan are gathering in the central Chinese city of Xi’an for a summit that began Thursday.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/18/china/china-central-asian-states-summit-xian-xi-jinping-intl-hnk/index.html

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[Moonbox]

"We appreciate the MiGs you've sent us, but could somebody send us something that isn't Russian garbage?"  

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

Take it with a grain of salt. Not confirmed yet by Western intelligence, however, it is possible Bakhmut had been taken by forces loyal to this element below supported by former communist KGB agents at the Kremlin as an invading force: 

I guess depends which propaganda you feel safe and secure believing in. In the end it only matters to those who live there, that the atrocities of war cease. Then they will raise whatever flag suits the victor. Hoorah. Now let us alone to get on with life, raise families and pay our taxes. (To fix the blown-apart roads, and shit).

Quote

after a bloody siege that all but destroyed the city

Ahh the spoils of war. "Hoorah".

Edited May 20, 2023 by OftenWrong

[Aristides]

Putin silences another critic. Permanently

 

How many is that now?

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Putin silences another critic. Permanently

 

How many is that now?

It's pretty easy to calculate that number - first you take the total number of people who've criticized him.

 

What? That's it.

 

[Moonbox]

Of note - he never actually criticizes Putin.  He always avoids explicitly trying to embarrass him, and continues to mock and ridicule the Russian Ministry of Defense instead.  

One thing that's interesting about this is that Prig just did an interview where he reveals that Wagner lost 20,000 dead in the battle of Bakhmut, when Russia's official casualty numbers are still around 6000 total.  The big influencers in Russia now are suspecting if he confirms 20,000 casualties, the real numbers are probably 1.5-2x higher for Wagner alone, nevermind the regular forces.  They bring up Afghanistan and how they lost only 15,000 dead in 9 years, and point to how they can lose more than that since January fighting for a single city in Ukraine.  

The propaganda facade is being to crumble.  

[Right To Left]

On 5/19/2023 at 7:09 PM, Contrarian said:

⬆️ ? United States approving plans to train Ukrainian troops on F-16 fighter jets:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/19/fighter-jets

Cynic that I am, I think the reason why the US has finally been talked into contributing F-16's to the Ukrainian war effort is because the US somehow thinks they may be able to convert this from a ground war(which the US is totally inept at fighting...especially today) to an air war, and so, all of the surplus jets (they're not giving away the new F-16's or similar fighter jets for the Ukes to practice crash landings with) may actually turn this quagmire into NATO's favor...we'll see how that goes. My hunch is that US and other NATO suppliers of F-16's will just provide more targets for the Russians to fire missiles at once they're on Ukrainian territory. 

[Moonbox]

"Interesting"

1.  The US isn't fighting anyone

2.  The US has proven it's very good at fighting ground wars

3.  The Russians can't even suppress Soviet-era MiGs 

4.  Your hunch is not very well-informed.  

[CdnFox]

20 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

"Interesting"

1.  The US isn't fighting anyone

2.  The US has proven it's very good at fighting ground wars

3.  The Russians can't even suppress Soviet-era MiGs 

4.  Your hunch is not very well-informed.  

Agreed.  I would propose a different theory.

I think it'll take a year before those planes are flying in any numbers.  I think the US thinks that THIS war will be over by then.  I think they're setting up for militarizing Ukraine after this war to be a thorn in russia's side that it can't ignore for years to come and to make ukraine a little more reliant on the US.

If it comes time to bargain it also helps. IF a small amount of land is given up then the us can say "sure you sacrifice that, but we'll give you a bunch of these planes and tanks to make sure they can never touch you again and that's great.

[Moonbox]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Agreed.  I would propose a different theory.

I think it'll take a year before those planes are flying in any numbers. 

It could be a lot quicker than that.  If you were trying to train pilots and maintenance crews from scratch it would probably that long, but for trained pilots who already know how to fly, you're just learning systems and the nuances of the plane.  

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I think the US thinks that THIS war will be over by then.  I think they're setting up for militarizing Ukraine after this war to be a thorn in russia's side that it can't ignore for years to come and to make ukraine a little more reliant on the US.

They don't need to do anything to ensure Ukraine is reliant on them.  That's fait accomplit, and it has been since 2014.  

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If it comes time to bargain it also helps. IF a small amount of land is given up then the us can say "sure you sacrifice that, but we'll give you a bunch of these planes and tanks to make sure they can never touch you again and that's great.

Maybe.  It's a much better theory at any rate than the previous one posted.