War In Ukraine

[Queenmandy85]

In the spirit of CrakHoBarbie, I too will admit I was wrong, and thank you to Contrarian for setting President Putin's KGB career correctly. Just because I want to believe something, I admit I was wrong. I still maintain he is no Yuri  Vladimirovich Andropov. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

In the spirit of CrakHoBarbie, I too will admit I was wrong, and thank you to Contrarian for setting President Putin's KGB career correctly.

Yeah - but he's still a dink right? Putin?

[Queenmandy85]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah - but he's still a dink right? Putin?

I read on yahoo news that he planned to launch a "Satan II" missile to coincide with President Biden's visit to the Ukraine. It didn't happen. Failure to launch is an apt symbol of how life is going for President Putin. Of course I have no confidence in the veracity of yahoo news.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I read on yahoo news that he planned to launch a "Satan II" missile to coincide with President Biden's visit to the Ukraine. It didn't happen. Failure to launch is an apt symbol of how life is going for President Putin. Of course I have no confidence in the veracity of yahoo news.

I've seen that reported in a few places - that's absolutely hilarious

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Contrarian said:

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that:

--> The United States Considers Release of Intelligence on China’s Potential Arms Transfer to Russia.

To bad it's not reporting that the US is drawing up lists of Chinese business interests to apply sanctions against.

They're being shit-disturbers and enabling trouble-makers of the worst kind at a time when the world is faced with other far more serious issues than some sphincter's legacy ambitions.

[athos]

 

Calling NATO a defensive alliance is like calling Ukraine a democracy.

 

 

[Nationalist]

For those of you who find radio active munitions detestable...

https://theintercept.com/2023/01/26/ukraine-uranium-bradley-fighting-vehicle/

[OftenWrong]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:51 AM, Aristides said:

We?  Russia invaded Ukraine.

Is that all that happened, just like that?

Wow, so simple. 

/s

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

We certainly didn't need to add WW3 to our current set of problems.

We didn't add it, your boy Putin did.

[Aristides]

8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Is that all that happened, just like that?

Wow, so simple. 

/s

Yup

[CdnFox]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

We didn't add it, your boy Putin did.

And here's the thing. Appeasement never avoids a war, at best it deferrs it

Saying "we dont' need to add ww3 to our problems" suggests that if we allow putin to have his way then he'll be happy and that will be the end of it. But history teaches us otherwise.

Giving him Crimea did not make him go away happy, it emboldened him to invade Ukraine just a few years later. If we back down now, he'll know all he has to do is threaten ww3 to get whatever else he wants.

Didn't work with hitler either. Just ask Neville Chamberlin. I can't think of a time in history that it did work.

You beat a bully by ignoring his threats and smashing him in the face till he gets the message. THAT is how you avoid WW3, not by capitulation.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

And here's the thing. Appeasement never avoids a war, at best it deferrs it

Saying "we dont' need to add ww3 to our problems" suggests that if we allow putin to have his way then he'll be happy and that will be the end of it. But history teaches us otherwise.

Giving him Crimea did not make him go away happy, it emboldened him to invade Ukraine just a few years later. If we back down now, he'll know all he has to do is threaten ww3 to get whatever else he wants.

Didn't work with hitler either. Just ask Neville Chamberlin. I can't think of a time in history that it did work.

You beat a bully by ignoring his threats and smashing him in the face till he gets the message. THAT is how you avoid WW3, not by capitulation.

I never mentioned capitulation, so don't put words in my mouth.

The situation is complicated and has a history. I'm interested in the events that lead up to the invasion, especially the ouster of the democratically elected, although pro-Russian president after he rejected the EU agreement. 

There would be a keen interest by certain western countries to see Russia fall into another quagmire as they did in Afghanistan. The manipulations of superpowers USA, EU and NATO in causing the political overthrow of Yanukovych lead to essentially civil war in Ukraine, and that is what brought Russia in.

The USA and EU hold some responsibility for the war and deaths that have occurred, and the resulting worldwide economic damage and instability. Ukrainians are mere pawns in a clash of superpowers by proxy, one the United States has pledged to continue for "as long as it takes."

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

I never mentioned capitulation, so don't put words in my mouth.

Nobody said you did.  I wasn't even replying to you.  Settle the heck down kiddo, it's too early on a friday to get offended over nothing What I said and i stand by it is that you can't avoid a world war by capitulating to aggressive bullies.  Nothing was attributed to you.

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

The situation is complicated and has a history. I'm interested in the events that lead up to the invasion, especially the ouster of the democratically elected, although pro-Russian president after he rejected the EU agreement. 

Russia is not invading due to the history. They've been pretty blunt about that. While i'm sure there IS a history the russian invasion is not due to russia being offended by corrupt elections They have their own problems there.

Putin wanted the land, and thought he could take it quickly and easily and that went sideways.

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

There would be a keen interest by certain western countries to see Russia fall into another quagmire as they did in Afghanistan. The manipulations of superpowers USA, EU and NATO in causing the political overthrow of Yanukovych lead to essentially civil war in Ukraine, and that is what brought Russia in.

That is not what brought russia in at all. What brought russia in is the idea that they could reintegrate ukraine into their little empire at the cost of a three to seven day war that would be a walk in the park and by the time the UN or anyone else could intervene it would be all over. That is NOT how it went though.

You are undoubtedly correct that western countries are happy with this outcome and are glad to see Russia's military might being trashed and russia weakened. Obviously a weaker russia is to their advantage.  And they are achieving it just by sending some weapons, most of which were getting old anyway. THat's like the cheapest war ever. A few billion and russia's military capability is severely damaged? They can't sign that cheque fast enough.

 

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

 

The USA and EU hold some responsibility for the war and deaths that have occurred, and the resulting worldwide economic damage and instability. 

Nope, none, Not a drop. Zero, zilch nada.  Russia (and putin) Decided on this course of action completey on their own, there was no negotiation, there was no attempt to address any issues peacefully, they had been basically handed Crimea a few years ago, and when they started to build up troops at the border and the west tried to negotiate they refused and insisted nothing was going on.

This war is 100 percent putin and russia.

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

 

Ukrainians are mere pawns in a clash of superpowers by proxy, one the United States has pledged to continue for "as long as it takes."

They are not pawns in anything.  They are being attacked by a superpower, and are desperate to fight back and keep their country. Other superpowers are agreeing to THEIR requests because it benefits them to see russia get punched in the nose like this.  But that is the will of the Ukranians, not 'western superpowers'.  It's their choice to defend their land, they're not being 'manipulated' into defending their country.

And of course the allied countries are giving them what they need - it hurts russia who has been very aggressive in the last few decades and it does it on the cheap. They get to test out all kinds of weapons systems to perfect them  and evaluate tactics, and they'll get prime position for contracts to rebuild ukraine after. Why wouldn't they.

[OftenWrong]

28 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Nobody said you did.  I wasn't even replying to you.  Settle the heck down kiddo, it's too early on a friday to get offended over nothing What I said and i stand by it is that you can't avoid a world war by capitulating to aggressive bullies.  Nothing was attributed to you.

Russia is not invading due to the history. They've been pretty blunt about that. While i'm sure there IS a history the russian invasion is not due to russia being offended by corrupt elections They have their own problems there.

Putin wanted the land, and thought he could take it quickly and easily and that went sideways.

That is not what brought russia in at all. What brought russia in is the idea that they could reintegrate ukraine into their little empire at the cost of a three to seven day war that would be a walk in the park and by the time the UN or anyone else could intervene it would be all over. That is NOT how it went though.

You are undoubtedly correct that western countries are happy with this outcome and are glad to see Russia's military might being trashed and russia weakened. Obviously a weaker russia is to their advantage.  And they are achieving it just by sending some weapons, most of which were getting old anyway. THat's like the cheapest war ever. A few billion and russia's military capability is severely damaged? They can't sign that cheque fast enough.

 

Nope, none, Not a drop. Zero, zilch nada.  Russia (and putin) Decided on this course of action completey on their own, there was no negotiation, there was no attempt to address any issues peacefully, they had been basically handed Crimea a few years ago, and when they started to build up troops at the border and the west tried to negotiate they refused and insisted nothing was going on.

This war is 100 percent putin and russia.

They are not pawns in anything.  They are being attacked by a superpower, and are desperate to fight back and keep their country. Other superpowers are agreeing to THEIR requests because it benefits them to see russia get punched in the nose like this.  But that is the will of the Ukranians, not 'western superpowers'.  It's their choice to defend their land, they're not being 'manipulated' into defending their country.

And of course the allied countries are giving them what they need - it hurts russia who has been very aggressive in the last few decades and it does it on the cheap. They get to test out all kinds of weapons systems to perfect them  and evaluate tactics, and they'll get prime position for contracts to rebuild ukraine after. Why wouldn't they.

You absolutely did refer to my post when you said

 

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Saying "we dont' need to add ww3 to our problems" suggests that if we allow putin to have his way then he'll be happy

so stop lying. As for the rest, I don't have time to read your claptrap. Try a more brief summary.

[CdnFox]

17 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

You absolutely did refer to my post when you said

 

I didn't say i didn't refer to your post. I said i wasn't replying to you.

So stop lying   What kind of loser do you have to be to accuse someone of that twice and still be wrong?

Further: lets look at your quote:

"Saying "we dont' need to add ww3 to our problems" suggests that if we allow putin to have his way then he'll be happy "

Where in there do you see the word 'capitulation'?  In fact - where do you see the words 'he said"?  So when you claim i quoted you saying that capitulation is bad or the like, that's just a blatant lie.

I said that saying we don't need ww3 SUGGETS  - not that YOU MEAN or anything.  It SUGGESTS that if we allow putin to have his way then he'll be happy.

And it does. Sorry if you don't like that.

But nowhere does it claim that you said that.

Now if you're done being a complete dolt for the morning, then move on. I"m not your therapist.

[OftenWrong]

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I didn't say i didn't refer to your post. I said i wasn't replying to you.

So stop lying   What kind of loser do you have to be to accuse someone of that twice and still be wrong?

Further: lets look at your quote:

"Saying "we dont' need to add ww3 to our problems" suggests that if we allow putin to have his way then he'll be happy "

Where in there do you see the word 'capitulation'?  In fact - where do you see the words 'he said"?  So when you claim i quoted you saying that capitulation is bad or the like, that's just a blatant lie.

I said that saying we don't need ww3 SUGGETS  - not that YOU MEAN or anything.  It SUGGESTS that if we allow putin to have his way then he'll be happy.

And it does. Sorry if you don't like that.

But nowhere does it claim that you said that.

Now if you're done being a complete dolt for the morning, then move on. I"m not your therapist.

You're the one who got personal. I come here fot discussion, not to argue pointlessly with kids.

So now I know where you stand, fella. Go fook yourself.

[CdnFox]

45 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

You're the one who got personal. I come here fot discussion, not to argue pointlessly with kids.

So now I know where you stand, fella. Go fook yourself.

Awwww muffin - don't go away mad, just go away

Obviously you need your cookie and your nap.  It's not my fault you can't read and choose to call others liars when they didn't.  Next time dont be such a  Cont, you fooker ROFLMAO!

 

[OftenWrong]

22 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Awwww muffin - don't go away mad, just go away

Obviously you need your cookie and your nap.  It's not my fault you can't read and choose to call others liars when they didn't.  Next time dont be such a  Cont, you fooker ROFLMAO!

 

All I've done is give my opinion in this thread, and allowed you to out yourself as another of the squad around here who needs to throw boring little insults. Make your points without addressing the other poster. If you can't do that, get lost.

and Muffin, that's a boges terminology.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

All I've done is give my opinion in this thread, and allowed you to out yourself as another of the squad around here who needs to throw boring little insults.

ROFLMAO - well suuuuuure. You didn't suggest i was a liar. You didn't freak out making claims i said things i didn't   None of that right?

Please. You acted like a childish jackass and now you're trying to play the innocent martyr . Awwww poor you. Life is hard. 

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Make your points without addressing the other poster. If you can't do that, get lost.

Oh look - the russian advocate wants to give me orders and silence me.  What a shock

So you attack me - i attack back and you're on the defensive and you want to blame me for it.  Hnmmmm- what conflict could that POSSIBLY remind me of?  Putin, is that you?

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

and Muffin, that's a boges terminology.

Boges was a Persian official and military commander, who functioned as governor (hyparchos) of Eion in Thrace (Achaemenid satrapy of Skudra) under the King of Kings Xerxes I (r. 486–465 BC).^[1]

Huh. Odd reference but ok. 

[OftenWrong]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

ROFLMAO - well suuuuuure. You didn't suggest i was a liar. You didn't freak out making claims i said things i didn't   None of that right?

Please. You acted like a childish jackass and now you're trying to play the innocent martyr . Awwww poor you. Life is hard. 

Oh look - the russian advocate wants to give me orders and silence me.  What a shock

So you attack me - i attack back and you're on the defensive and you want to blame me for it.  Hnmmmm- what conflict could that POSSIBLY remind me of?  Putin, is that you?

Boges was a Persian official and military commander, who functioned as governor (hyparchos) of Eion in Thrace (Achaemenid satrapy of Skudra) under the King of Kings Xerxes I (r. 486–465 BC).^[1]

Huh. Odd reference but ok. 

All those things came after you initiated your personal comments. and I told you to stop this exchange. Grow up. Unless you have something on topic to say, do not say anything further.

[CdnFox]

27 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

All those things came after you initiated your personal comments. and I told you to stop this exchange. Grow up. Unless you have something on topic to say, do not say anything further.

No it didn't. You started it off and i wasn't even replying to you,

Bugger off child.  This ain't russia, you don't get to order me around. You're pathetic.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

You're pathetic.

Right back at you, dick head.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Right back at you, dick head.

I take it you're talking to your mirror ???

[OftenWrong]

39 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I take it you're talking to your mirror ???

You take it, no doubt about that.

You need to learn some forum etiquette, show some respect for the others in this forum.

In other words, please and kindly stfu...

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

You take it, no doubt about that.

ohhhh - GAY jokes!!  I get it - you're not just a commie, you're not just a hypocrite, you're not just a dishonest person, you're ALSO homophobic! Wow - you really are the full package aren't you Tell me again how you don't resort to insults

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

You need to learn some forum etiquette, show some respect for the others in this forum.

You started this. Don't get mad at me that you can't finish it

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

In other words, please and kindly stfu...

translation: Wahhhh wahhhhh - i picked a fight with someone and they turned out to be tougher than me and i want them to stop but they won't do what i tell them tooooo  WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Wow it really is amusing to see this in a thread about the ukraine war You and putin should start a support group

I know - try ordering me to go away again. See if that helps.