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War In Ukraine


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I have no idea about previous posts in this thread.

=====

After 2000, Tony Blair as PM often met Putin. I listened to a recent BBC interview with Blair.

It didn't help me understand further.

Blair - like Nixon - is a good politician/deal maker/problem solver. 

I reckon that Putin is doing what Catherine the Great once did. He is protecting Russia.

====

Look at any map from the 18th or even 19th century.

Where is the border. 

Edited by August1991
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I recently watched a documentary about Billy Wilder. Some Like it Hot? Seen it?

Wilder was a German-speaking Jew born in Lemberg in 1909.

Before August 1914, Lemburg was a city in the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. And most people spoke Polish

Now, it is known as Lvov - a so-called "Ukrainian" city - when in fact it was once part - before 1914 - of the Austrian Hungarian Empire.

=====

Lvov? Most places nowadays that were part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, they/re tourist destinations.

Krakow, yes. Lublin, no.

Edited by August1991
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2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Russia used to be under Ukrainian rule

does that mean Russia should always be under Ukrainian rule

and has no right to national autonomy?

because I hear a lot of people making this argument vice versa

There was once a Kievan Rus.

IMHO. this is a Civil War between slavic people.

We in the West should not take sides.

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17 minutes ago, August1991 said:

There was once a Kievan Rus.

IMHO. this is a Civil War between slavic people.

We in the West should not take sides.

why not?

one side is the clear imperialist aggressor

which threatens western interests

the other side is the clear nationalist defender

which is a useful roadblock that helps protect certain western interests from the imperialist aggressor

Edited by Yzermandius19
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To make my point more clear:

When America and Australian sent guys to fight in Vietnam, it was correct.

Vietnam was an important battle that we were fighting in a larger Cold War. The Berlin Wall fell. We won. 

====

When Bush Jnr sent guys to fight in Iraq, it was wrong.

As Obama said, radical Islam was the JV. Let the Saudis deal with it.

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5 minutes ago, August1991 said:

To make my point more clear:

When America and Australian sent guys to fight in Vietnam, it was correct.

Vietnam was an important battle that we were fighting in a larger Cold War. The Berlin Wall fell. We won. 

====

When Bush Jnr sent guys to fight in Iraq, it was wrong.

As Obama said, radical Islam was the JV. Let the Saudis deal with it.

Vietnam good, but Ukraine bad?

under your logic

supporting Ukraine should be an important battle in the fight against Russian imperialism

Ukraine is far more important than Vietnam

how do you defend the Vietnam war on one hand and say Ukraine is none of our business on the other?

that makes no sense whatsoever

Edited by Yzermandius19
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24 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

why not?

one side is the clear imperialist aggressor

which threatens western interests

the other side is the clear nationalist defender

which is a useful roadblock that helps protect certain western interests from the imperialist aggressor

Huh?

Which side is the "clear imperialist aggrressor"?

====

I ask everyone to look at a map from 1900 or so.

This country "Ukraine" did not exist. The western territory - Galicia - was part of a larger federal State - where people spoke Polish, Yiddish, German.

=====

We in North America are wise to avoid these arguments.

I generally vote federal Liberal on this point alone. I favour any politician who makes us get along.

Edited by August1991
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14 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Huh?

Which side is the "clear imperialist aggrressor"?

====

I ask everyone to look at a map from 1900 or so.

This country "Ukraine" did not exist.

Russia is the clear imperialist aggressor

look at a map in 2022

Ukraine exists now and Russia invaded it

just because it wasn't on the map in 1900

doesn't mean it shouldn't be in 2022

 

it's not 1900 anymore

Russia might wish the map was more like it was then

but it's not, nor should it be

Russia is not entitled to an empire just because they had one 1900

they can fck off

Edited by Yzermandius19
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36 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Vietnam good, but Ukraine bad?

....

Vietnam was an important battle, like Dunkerque, in a larger war.

America won this Cold War. For the good of us all.

====

American soldiers should not be in Iraq or Ukraine.

Outside America, American politicians should not try regime change. (Their efforts within America are enough.)

Edited by August1991
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Just now, August1991 said:

Vietnam was an important battle, like Dunkerque, in a larger war.

America won this Cold War. For the good of us all.

====

American soldiers should not be in Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine.

Outside America, American politicians should not try regime change. (Their efforts within America are enough.)

who said anything American soldiers in Ukraine or regime change?

is that the only way you can sell your position by strawmanning the alternatives?

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There were shots of the retreat of individual units of the Ukrainian army from the territory of the Red Estuary. The settlement of Krasny Liman is of strategic importance in Ukraine, since it opens up directions for advancing towards Slavyansk with Kramatorsk and towards the grouping of Kiev forces concentrated near Lisichansk and Severodonetsk.

Russian troops launched a missile attack on the Ukrainian plant "Motor Sich" in Zaporozhye. As a result of the missile strike, the plant's workshops and the administrative building were destroyed. The Ukrainian plant "Motor Sich" was engaged in the production, repair and maintenance of aircraft engines and also produced parts for Turkish UAVs "Bayraktar" and "Akinsi".

In Ukraine, a self-propelled mortar of a colossal 240-mm caliber was spotted near Severodonetsk. The king of Russian mortars, like many Russian artillery, is romantically named 2C4 "Tulip". The pretty name of the flower hides a monstrous power that inspires fear and respect, by the way, the shot of its 130 kilogram mine leaves a funnel in the ground with a diameter of 10 and a depth of almost 6 meters. Now there are no analogues of the Russian "Tulip": it significantly surpasses conventional artillery and is a record holder. 2C4 "Tulip" is designed primarily for the destruction of bunkers and fortified positions.

 

Edited by Soldier35
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On 5/25/2022 at 5:48 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

who said anything American soldiers in Ukraine or regime change?

is that the only way you can sell your position by strawmanning the alternatives?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/why-ukraine-must-defeat-putin-russia/629940/

****

The Atlantlic, Anne Applebaum.

******

IMHO, American Jews - like many people who perceive themselves as minorities - are foolishly leftist.

Woody Allen: The State will protect me against these crazy white Christians. 

 

Edited by August1991
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5 hours ago, August1991 said:

just because Anne Applebaum says it

doesn't mean anyone who supports Ukraine agrees with her position

plenty of people who support Ukraine

do not seek regime change or want American troops in Ukraine

one should not lump them together with the Anne Applebaum's of the world willy nilly

Edited by Yzermandius19
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I see a call for truth here, sooo...

"Russia is the clear imperialist aggressor". They did attack a recognized nation. And for the people who harp on that point alone, I say...'Oh for Gawd's sake...grow up.' When Crimea had its referendum to become independent from the very newly formed Ukraine, so did the Donbas region. The Ukrainians couldn't do anything about Crimea for a number of reasons, but they made use of the Neo-Nazi Azov battalion and sent them to war against the people of the Donbas. Over the next decade or so, the Donbas saw horrific slaughters and gross acts of destruction and murder at the hands of these Azovs...bank rolled and supported by...the Ukrainian government. The western nations sat idly by and said nothing...did nothing. This little war is none of our business and when simpletons boil this down to a single issue, they are as guilty as Russia, Ukraine and the western nations.

The Vietnam war was just a part of the overall Cold War with the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union eventually failed. Thus America won the Vietnam war. Complete and utter BULLSHIT! The USA LOST that war and ran away with its tail between its legs...from the rooftops in helicopters.!

Anne Applebaum and The Atlantic are reliable news sources. Errr...NO! Anne's a twit and The Atlantic is nothing more that a TDS infected rag.

For those of you who still think the Ukraine has a hope in hell of being victorious in the Donbas region...the longer NATO and the USA in particular, continue to send arms and money to Ukraine, the more slaughtering of people will continue. I thought you Tweenkies loathed the death of people..."PEOPLE COULD DIIIEEE!" You're all nothing more than a pack of rabid hypocrites.

These are truths...deal with them like the adults you think you are.

Edited by Nationalist
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11 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I see a call for truth here, sooo...

"Russia is the clear imperialist aggressor". They did attack a recognized nation. And for the people who harp on that point alone, I say...'Oh for Gawd's sake...grow up.' When Crimea had its referendum to become independent from the very newly formed Ukraine, so did the Donbas region. The Ukrainians couldn't do anything about Crimea for a number of reasons, but they made use of the Neo-Nazi Azov battalion and sent them to war against the people of the Donbas. Over the next decade or so, the Donbas saw horrific slaughters and gross acts of destruction and murder at the hands of these Azovs...bank rolled and supported by...the Ukrainian government. The western nations sat idly by and said nothing...did nothing. This little war is none of our business and when simpletons boil this down to a single issue, they are as guilty as Russia, Ukraine and the western nations.

The Vietnam war was just a part of the overall Cold War with the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union eventually failed. Thus America won the Vietnam war. Complete and utter BULLSHIT! The USA LOST that war and ran away with its tail between its legs...from the rooftops in helicopters.!

Anne Applebaum and The Atlantic are reliable news sources. Errr...NO! Anne's a twit and The Atlantic is nothing more that a TDS infected rag.

For those of you who still think the Ukraine has a hope in hell of being victorious in the Donbas region...the longer NATO and the USA in particular, continue to send arms and money to Ukraine, the more slaughtering of people will continue. I thought you Tweenkies loathed the death of people..."PEOPLE COULD DIIIEEE!" You're all nothing more than a pack of rabid hypocrites.

These are truths...deal with them like the adults you think you are.

Russia are the imperialist aggressors

and nothing Ukraine has done justifies that

you grow up

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David Kasatkin, a well-known member of Azov Nazi battalion who surrendered in Mariupol, became famous on social media, threatening the family of Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov.
He was taken to a remand prison in the city of Grozny, Chechnya. Many think that David will soon become a famous castrato soprano in the Grozny opera.



 

Edited by athos
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This Azovastal lady and her partner, in an attempt to get out of Mariupol, kidnapped the family, killed the parents, put on civilian clothes and forced the children to go with them, posing as a married couple with children.
They are now awaiting trial.

FT67NouX0AAEfWc?format=jpg&name=small

 

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  • 1 month later...

The Ukrainian army began to mine the roads leading to Belarus. Mining of roads is carried out because of the expected invasion of Belarus into Ukraine. The Command of the Joint Forces of Ukraine reported that the engineering equipment of the state border is underway, including the mining of the most dangerous areas.

 

Almost two months have passed since the Russian BMPT "Terminator" appeared in Ukraine. Despite such a period, no frames of the combat operation of the machines appeared, and it is not clear what this is connected with. The cars are not destroyed, as the video would have appeared long ago. BMPT "Terminator" are still in Ukraine and apparently work, as one of them arrived for maintenance in the workshops

 

 

Edited by Soldier35
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1 hour ago, Luz P. said:

The way of proxy wars.  USA and NATO are willing to fight this war to the last Ukrainian just as they did in Afghanistan...

Because you know:  "we think, the price is worth it."

the Ukrainians think the price is worth it

the Russians paying the price is of benefit to America and NATO

Edited by Yzermandius19
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