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My Foray Into Conspiracy Theories


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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Well, you certainly didn’t leave me much to respond with beyond ‘na na na na na’, so I’m out.

You could go back and fix your original hyperventilating and overstated post.  I don't need a cite when I say that the sky is blue.

You talk like you are standing up in Question Period.  Personally, I like to talk to people like their human beings, not like they're the Speaker of the House.

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56 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You could go back and fix your original hyperventilating and overstated post.  I don't need a cite when I say that the sky is blue.

You talk like you are standing up in Question Period.  Personally, I like to talk to people like their human beings, not like they're the Speaker of the House.

I introduced the point that Russians themselves are buying gold. It was intended to counter your dismissive remarks about banks. The following lines about right, Trudeau etc. are to add a little humour. Final line is a punchline to reference the thread title.

Sorry but I’m not going back to change such a well-constructed dialectical response.

But let’s rather look at your reply and attitude in this thread. You did not pick up on my comments about gold, although I see others did. You only complained about my closing remarks, which are a joke.

I guess it shows, we only see what we want to see.

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6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I disagreed with the Emergencies Act.  It was unnecessary, set a bad precedent and was a shameful chapter in our history.  It was an equally shameful blotch on the efficacy of our law enforcement in how it the protests were handled to get to that point though.   Freezing people's bank accounts isn't unconstitutional and it gets done with Court orders often enough that it's not really remarkable.  What was concerning was circumventing the warrant/Court process with the Emergency Act.  

This was a loud but temporary blunder and hopefully puts future politicians on notice that it's not to be trifled with.  I'll vote against Trudeau next election on this issue alone (provided there's anyone but Jagmeet Singh or Pierre Poilievre to vote for).  

Yes, you're right.  

You bring that on yourselves with your conspiracy theories and inflammatory rhetoric.  Whatever good points you have to make get drowned out in hyperbole and people aren't interested in listening to tantrums.  I'm not saying that to troll you either.  

Those are all reasonable points.  I’d just say that sometimes there’s truth in conspiracy theories and we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water when concerning nuggets of truth surface.  On a psychological level I’d suggest that conspiracy theories tend to gain sway when government stops explaining or justifying its actions in reasonable ways.  I’d consider Trudeau’s refusal to meet with protesters and his dismissal of them as deplorables as major leadership failures.   I’d consider his refusal to explain why he is keeping vaccine mandates and passports, which have had real consequences for unvaccinated people and the economy, a major leadership failure.  I’d consider his introduction of the Emergencies Act and attempt to prolong it major leadership failures.

These failures have rightly undermined trust in government.  The well-documented influence of foreign powers like the WEF just adds fuel to a fire that will be hard to extinguish.  Millions of Canadians are really upset with the Trudeau government beyond anything I’ve seen with any Canadian government in my lifetime.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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12 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. The following lines about right, Trudeau etc. are to add a little humour.  

2. You only complained about my closing remarks, which are a joke.

3. I guess it shows, we only see what we want to see.

1. 2. Not an obvious joke.

3. Believe me, I don't want to see you jumping in on the retarded commentary trend.  You have valid criticisms of Trudeau that I really want to read.

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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Those are all reasonable points.  I’d just say that sometimes there’s truth in conspiracy theories and we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water when concerning nuggets of truth surface.

The fact that on rare occasions a conspiracy theory might turn out to be true does not change the balance of reasoning, especially when 99.9% of them or whatever are silly nonsense.  If you throw enough poo at the wall like Alex Jones, it's simple math that he'll probably get something right eventually.  It's monkey-on-a-typewriter logic.  If you provide enough monkeys typewriters, given enough time they'll eventually write something intelligible.  

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

On a psychological level I’d suggest that conspiracy theories tend to gain sway when government stops explaining or justifying its actions in reasonable ways.

I'd suggest you're wrong, because the most visible trait of a conspiracy theorist is the irrational and overwhelming suspicion of any information that conflicts with their beliefs.  The government's ability or inability to reasonably explain their actions is irrelevant once someone's jumped down the rabbit hole, because no matter how many experts weigh in, no matter how much worldwide consensus you get and no matter how much bipartisan support there is for something, the conspiracy theorist will always fall back on:

"MSM fake news big corp agenda".

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’d consider Trudeau’s refusal to meet with protesters and his dismissal of them as deplorables as major leadership failures.  

He didn't have much to gain meeting with protestors.  He wasn't going to change their mind and the rest of Canada wasn't too interested in what they had to say anyways.  

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’d consider his refusal to explain why he is keeping vaccine mandates and passports, which have had real consequences for unvaccinated people and the economy, a major leadership failure.

He didn't fail to explain.  Conspiracy theorists failed to listen and to instead chose to drink their Koolaid.  They could have made good arguments about the relative cost of the mandates and whether it was a fair trade-off in 2022, but instead they chose pseudo-scientific garbage and hyperbole about freeeedom and fascism etc.    

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 I’d consider his introduction of the Emergencies Act and attempt to prolong it major leadership failures.

On this we agree 100%.  

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The well-documented influence of foreign powers like the WEF just adds fuel to a fire that will be hard to extinguish.  

This is a conspiracy theory.  You try to pretend it's not, but you keep pointing at the WEF like there's something dark and sinister going on that Canadians should be worried about, but can't really explain why.  Nobody cares that there are global influences on Canadian politics.  We're part of the world and the world economy and we're a middle power (at best).  Being influenced by global players is a truism. 

One last thing I'll mention is your use of the term "well-documented".  Conspiracy theorists love to use this term because they think it adds credibility and gravitas to their statements.  It only works on people who aren't filtering information though.  When they say "well-documented" it usually means either:

1)  It's a vague and nebulous statement 

2) It's actually not well-documented

In this case "well-documented influence of foreign powers like the WEF" is just a vague and meaningless statement. 


 

Edited by Moonbox
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46 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

The fact that on rare occasions a conspiracy theory might turn out to be true does not change the balance of reasoning, especially when 99.9% of them or whatever are silly nonsense.  If you throw enough poo at the wall like Alex Jones, it's simple math that he'll probably get something right eventually.  It's monkey-on-a-typewriter logic.  If you provide enough monkeys typewriters, given enough time they'll eventually write something intelligible.  

I'd suggest you're wrong, because the most visible trait of a conspiracy theorist is the irrational and overwhelming suspicion of any information that conflicts with their beliefs.  The government's ability or inability to reasonably explain their actions is irrelevant once someone's jumped down the rabbit hole, because no matter how many experts weigh in, no matter how much worldwide consensus you get and no matter how much bipartisan support there is for something, the conspiracy theorist will always fall back on:

"MSM fake news big corp agenda".

He didn't have much to gain meeting with protestors.  He wasn't going to change their mind and the rest of Canada wasn't too interested in what they had to say anyways.  

He didn't fail to explain.  Conspiracy theorists failed to listen and to instead chose to drink their Koolaid.  They could have made good arguments about the relative cost of the mandates and whether it was a fair trade-off in 2022, but instead they chose pseudo-scientific garbage and hyperbole about freeeedom and fascism etc.    

On this we agree 100%.  

This is a conspiracy theory.  You try to pretend it's not, but you keep pointing at the WEF like there's something dark and sinister going on that Canadians should be worried about, but can't really explain why.  Nobody cares that there are global influences on Canadian politics.  We're part of the world and the world economy and we're a middle power (at best).  Being influenced by global players is a truism. 

One last thing I'll mention is your use of the term "well-documented".  Conspiracy theorists love to use this term because they think it adds credibility and gravitas to their statements.  It only works on people who aren't filtering information though.  When they say "well-documented" it usually means either:

1)  It's a vague and nebulous statement 

2) It's actually not well-documented

In this case "well-documented influence of foreign powers like the WEF" is just a vague and meaningless statement. 


 

I think you’re in denial of the serious threats before the country, but I also understand it because I’ve been there. I don’t think the threats were as immediate as they are now.  I’ve read enough sources now that I can discern with confidence when people are burying their heads in the sand or simply have a shallow knowledge of issues, which is actually typical.  It doesn’t matter.  Those who are ill-informed are the most susceptible to manipulation. I’ve never followed Alex Jones or QAnon or whatever sources are commonly associated with crazy conspiracy theories.   I know we have an irresponsible government. The big error in your thinking is exactly the same problem that our government has in reading the Canadian public:

“He (Trudeau) didn't have much to gain meeting with protestors.  He wasn't going to change their mind and the rest of Canada wasn't too interested in what they had to say anyways.”

That’s entirely wrong.  The rest of Canada that is interested in what they have to say is probably half the country. Most of the protesters had a very strong and I think correct belief that government was infringing in constitutional freedoms unnecessarily.  A kind of segregation of the public has been underway, stripping the unvaccinated of rights and calling them all sorts of really insulting names: unscientific, racists, misogynists, people with unacceptable views, people unworthy of space.

You can put a happy face on it and call it taking care of Canadians, but what our PM did was incredibly divisive and hurtful to many people.  The fact that he still won’t discuss the removal of vaccine passports and mandates will inevitably raise questions about ulterior motives.  He’s a favourite of the WEF and their agenda is on public record.  It’s not really a conspiracy, though it’s probably a breach of Canadian sovereignty and I don’t think most Canadians would support this.

So sure, write all these concerns off in the self-righteous confidence that you know better than these wack jobs. I’d suggest that it’s exactly that kind of attitude that has made a large swath of the population feel alienated from a privileged government that’s out of touch with their interests and genuine hardship.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. 2. Not an obvious joke.

3. Believe me, I don't want to see you jumping in on the retarded commentary trend.  You have valid criticisms of Trudeau that I really want to read.

I dont see any

retarded commentary

trend

;) 

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7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. 2. Not an obvious joke.

Yes I agree. What I said may not be a joke. It could be real. Mr Trudeau said and did some bad things. By his own standards, he should be held accountable.

I believe if one lives by a political sword, let them die on it then when they’ve gone too far.

Going too far is breaking any laws, such as political interference in matters before the court, for example. 

When government conceals their own actions, ie. cover-up, they encourage conspiracy. People can tell something’s rotten in Denmark, cause it stinks.

So they create the vacuum which we fill in.

The deeper conspiracy is that these conspiracies actually benefit the elite law breakers, not the other way around.

It gets darker...

;) 

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14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ok, you came here 11 years after I did, probably that's why

Or I simply appreciate humour better than you. 

There are no retards in my world. I’m a live and let live kinda guy. You want to say something stupid, go ahead. 

Like my pappy used to say, back when he ran the Aikenhead’s in Toronto, each  gives of their own store.

 

Edited by OftenWrong
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2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Mr Trudeau said and did some bad things. By his own standards, he should be held accountable.

2. Going too far is breaking any laws, such as political interference in matters before the court, for example. 

3.The deeper conspiracy is that these conspiracies actually benefit the elite law breakers, not the other way around.

1. Agreed.  Did he call Pat King a Nazi ?  If so, not fair - King is clearly just a white supremacist (also Metis).
2. Well he dodged that bullet 2 elections ago I think.
3. 'Conspiracy Theory' tends not to refer to 'Conspiracy Facts' like... Trudeau tried to influence the Minister of Justice in the SNC Lavalin case.
 

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On 3/8/2022 at 3:36 PM, Faramir said:

I still haven't decided where I come in on the Ukraine invasion.  Putin is a piker to be sure.  But I also wonder if it really was wise to push Ukraine to become a part of NATO.  

Ukraine has been pushing to join NATO for ages.  It's not hard to see why.  On the one hand they see modern democratic institutions and free participation in the EU and global economy. On the other side of their border they see an old-school dictator overseeing a crumbling economy, fading demographics whilst waving his weapons around pretending that Russia is still a global power.    

Regardless, NATO rebuffed them so as not to provoke a war. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

American funded bio labs in the Ukraine were a conspiracy theory and then it was true.

The Hunter Biden laptop was a conspiracy theory and then it wasn’t.

Covid being airborne and coming from the Wuhan Lab was a conspiracy theory and then it was the truth.

The Western Media was wrong on every single one of these stories.  At some point a reasonable person starts to notice this and wonder what’s up.

Once Biden takes over, oil prices steadily climb again and inflation rises above 7%, but it’s a conspiracy theory to believe that Biden has anything to do with the price of gas.  

Wake up, people, the Western media is no better than the Russian media at covering for their guy.  

 

Edited by sharkman
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14 minutes ago, sharkman said:

Wake up, people, the Western media is no better than the Russian media at covering for their guy.  

Don't worry, I bet ordinary Russians, even when under the heel of a real propagandizing media-controlling dictatorship are far far more immune to disinformation than a western person, especially any run-of-the-mill western conservative.

Edited by eyeball
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On 3/19/2022 at 10:03 PM, eyeball said:

Don't worry, I bet ordinary Russians, even when under the heel of a real propagandizing media-controlling dictatorship are far far more immune to disinformation than a western person, especially any run-of-the-mill western conservative.

I invite you to keep sleeping through life until you are awakened.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Quote

Getting harder to find a conspiracy, these days...

Scientology and Muslim Brotherhood conspire, not so hard but no one cares about the real conspiracies.

What is harder to find are the conspiracies made in Hollywood, the super conspiracies who are quite improbable... but when you confuse misinformation and information it is not so hard to find. With just the internet connection I already found the Illuminati conspiracy.

 

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11 hours ago, Jean-Kevin said:

Scientology and Muslim Brotherhood conspire, not so hard but no one cares about the real conspiracies.

What is harder to find are the conspiracies made in Hollywood, the super conspiracies who are quite improbable... but when you confuse misinformation and information it is not so hard to find. With just the internet connection I already found the Illuminati conspiracy.

 

Was it illuminating or mundane? 

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