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Conservative Leadership September 10th


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On 8/10/2022 at 2:52 AM, Moonbox said:

I think it's fair to question the Trudeau Liberals' overreach (especially with the Emergencies Act and how that played out with the truckers).  What you're saying about politicized monetary policy, however, is exactly what I'm talking about with Pierre and his "platform".  You don't actually know what monetary policy is (and that's fine - 90% of people don't even have a basic understanding), but people talk about it a lot and you know it's a powerful tool.  The mechanics of it all are a mystery to you, but you know that it's DOING THINGS, that Trudeau-man is BAD, and it's part of his PLAN.  

Pierre understands the central bank.  He doesn't believe what he's saying about it.  He just knows that you're vaguely mad about all sorts of things you don't really understand and he'll channel that if he can.   

Even if everyone here did not fully understand monetary policy, are you suggesting that Justin and his team does, would you say it is good monetary policy to drastically reduce fertilizer for crops when we are on the edge of a recession, Is it good monetary policy to basically shut down our fossil fuel industry when everything is effected by these prices increases, amid high inflation.

And the central bank did not see all this coming and could of not prevented it or reduced any of it? 

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2 hours ago, Jack9000 said:

He is not sharp on issues all he knows to do is attack and bark like a dog lol he won't fix a damn thing .dudes in twitter sayingg Justin inflation every 5 mins like a fool when it's a global problem and Canada inflation was the lowest out of the major countries lol

You should be celebrating , instead of whining, according to you your boy is likely going to win again. your social programs will be safe for another year...Or you just like to chirp.

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Even if everyone here did not fully understand monetary policy, are you suggesting that Justin and his team does,

I don't think Justin has any understanding of monetary policy whatsoever, nor does most of his government.  Thankfully, guys like Carney, Poloz and Macklem do, and they're the ones making the decisions on these issues.  

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

would you say it is good monetary policy to drastically reduce fertilizer for crops when we are on the edge of a recession,

I genuinely don't mean to insult you here, but if you think these are monetary policy issues then you don't know what monetary policy is.  

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Is it good monetary policy to basically shut down our fossil fuel industry when everything is effected by these prices increases, amid high inflation.

Again, not monetary policy.  

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

And the central bank did not see all this coming and could of not prevented it or reduced any of it? 

Central banks couldn't anticipate Russia invading Ukraine, or COVID and the supply-chain shortages they delivered.  Those impossible-to-predict events are only one side of the challenges they face.  Sometimes they CAN see inflationary pressure coming, but can't actually do anything to affect it.  Widespread drought for example, have predictable outcomes for food prices, but monetary policy doesn't solve them. 

It's easy for populists to point at the central banks for a scapegoat though.  Most people have literally zero understanding of monetary policy so if you just screech about how bad they are then the ignorant sort of fall in line behind you.  DAMN THOSE CENTRAL BANKERS!

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11 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I don't think Justin has any understanding of monetary policy whatsoever, nor does most of his government.  Thankfully, guys like Carney, Poloz and Macklem do, and they're the ones making the decisions on these issues.  

I genuinely don't mean to insult you here, but if you think these are monetary policy issues then you don't know what monetary policy is.  

Again, not monetary policy.  

Central banks couldn't anticipate Russia invading Ukraine, or COVID and the supply-chain shortages they delivered.  Those impossible-to-predict events are only one side of the challenges they face.  Sometimes they CAN see inflationary pressure coming, but can't actually do anything to affect it.  Widespread drought for example, have predictable outcomes for food prices, but monetary policy doesn't solve them. 

It's easy for populists to point at the central banks for a scapegoat though.  Most people have literally zero understanding of monetary policy so if you just screech about how bad they are then the ignorant sort of fall in line behind you.  DAMN THOSE CENTRAL BANKERS!

They may not be monetary policy, but they do influence those policies, unless of course you think it makes good economic sense to heavily influence the amount of food grown in our country, or cut an industry that use to make a significate chunk of our GDP all the while the country is on the edge of a recession. 

And if those guys you have mention do understand monetary policy, you would think they would be advising Justins play group on what is and what is not good for our economy or the current monetary policy that are in place. 

I'm not insulted, in fact i know very little about monetary policy. 

Just a question, if all those people involved in the stock market knew about and anticipated these events why can't the central bank again?  And yet interest is on the rise to combat some of these events i think PP had said they were slow to react. 

And i don't think everyone is pointing the finger strictly at the central bank, but everyone involved in making decisions about our economy, Federal government, and the central bank are the two leading figures in this issue are they not.  

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On 8/10/2022 at 1:52 AM, Moonbox said:

Pierre understands the central bank.  He doesn't believe what he's saying about it.  He just knows that you're vaguely mad about all sorts of things you don't really understand and he'll channel that if he can.   

Rather like Trudeau did his first election, right? He promised everything from a new way to elect MPs to an 'open and transparent' government, to empowering individual MPs and House committees - and did none of it.

Because all those promises were just to appeal to people who knew things were wrong and wanted change.

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10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

They may not be monetary policy, but they do influence those policies, unless of course you think it makes good economic sense to heavily influence the amount of food grown in our country, or cut an industry that use to make a significate chunk of our GDP all the while the country is on the edge of a recession. 

I would say that the central bank has very little to do with the amount of food grown in our country.  The weather and global commodity prices have much more to do with it.  =

10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Just a question, if all those people involved in the stock market knew about and anticipated these events why can't the central bank again?  And yet interest is on the rise to combat some of these events i think PP had said they were slow to react. 

The stock market didn't know.  That's why the S&P 500 and TSX etc plummeted in March 2020 and are heavily down this year.  They don't know any better than the central banks do - they generally know less. 

10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

And i don't think everyone is pointing the finger strictly at the central bank, but everyone involved in making decisions about our economy, Federal government, and the central bank are the two leading figures in this issue are they not.  

People have a tendency to just get angry at whoever is currently in charge when things are bad, rather than try to understand what's actually going on.  Prices are up everywhere, so yelling at your government about inflation is like screaming into the wind.  There are things you can blame our government for (like Canada's piss-poor energy policy since Trudeau took over) or his excessive deficits, but the majority of inflation right now is based on global factors nobody here has any control of.  Supply problems aside, we'd probably be looking at 4.5-5% inflation based on COVID spending etc.  The rest of it is thanks to Mother Nature, Putin and COVID related supply chain bottlenecks that are still being worked out.  

There are tools the central banks can employ to soften the blow (and we've seen them doing that), but if they try to counter unrelated/external inflationary pressures with monetary policy, and those pressure resolve on their own, then you've overcorrected and just made things worse down the road.  

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11 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Rather like Trudeau did his first election, right? He promised everything from a new way to elect MPs to an 'open and transparent' government, to empowering individual MPs and House committees - and did none of it.

Because all those promises were just to appeal to people who knew things were wrong and wanted change.

Yeah and like Harper before him.  That's what politicians do and nobody really holds them accountable for that sort of stuff.  

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4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I would say that the central bank has very little to do with the amount of food grown in our country.  The weather and global commodity prices have much more to do with it.  =

The stock market didn't know.  That's why the S&P 500 and TSX etc plummeted in March 2020 and are heavily down this year.  They don't know any better than the central banks do - they generally know less. 

People have a tendency to just get angry at whoever is currently in charge when things are bad, rather than try to understand what's actually going on.  Prices are up everywhere, so yelling at your government about inflation is like screaming into the wind.  There are things you can blame our government for (like Canada's piss-poor energy policy since Trudeau took over) or his excessive deficits, but the majority of inflation right now is based on global factors nobody here has any control of.  Supply problems aside, we'd probably be looking at 4.5-5% inflation based on COVID spending etc.  The rest of it is thanks to Mother Nature, Putin and COVID related supply chain bottlenecks that are still being worked out.  

There are tools the central banks can employ to soften the blow (and we've seen them doing that), but if they try to counter unrelated/external inflationary pressures with monetary policy, and those pressure resolve on their own, then you've overcorrected and just made things worse down the road.  

Sorry was not very clear, It is Justins decision to cut the amount of fertilizer farmers used in order to curb carbon emissions, which will reduce crop output and then drive prices up due to shortage. Same as oil Liberal polices to drastically reduce this industry, is choking profits( except for the last 3 or 4 months) It does not make much economical sense to do this on the edge of a recession. And if Justins and his gang does not know better why is the central  bank not advising them on this.

I don't think your giving the stock market any credit, they knew the shortages where coming, to be honest most people knew that the lack of workers/ Covid was going to hurt availability, Like computer chips for instance, shortages where so bad the US decided to make their own plant in the US,  traders where getting out of stocks that were losing ground and into those that were not...Not all stocks are down this year, some stocks are reporting major profits, along with some major traders, So they can't be all that blind to what is happening around the globe either that or very lucky..

You just said 4.5 to 5 % of inflation numbers are covid spending, inflation is in the mid 7.5 percent, thats more than half, that can be traced back to liberal policies...And we did need some covid spending, but relief measures according to the PBO does not count for 1/2 that number, and no one is saying where the rest has gone to... Once again liberal actions were taken , i can only assume the central bank did say something...It is their job right. 

I agree i think PP has stated they did not act soon enough, 

The guy in charge is the guy reasonable for both wins and losses, and there was options for the government to due, some countries canceled carbon taxes, or postponed them or reduced federal taxes, which account for over 60 cents a liter...and I'm sure there is more breaks that the government could have taken, instead he has increased tax loads by raising carbon taxes, and now reducing the amount of fertilizer farmers can use...which will only jack food prices up more...

This would also be the time to find solutions to Europe's energy crises so this does not happen again, Canada could take measures to build more LP refiner's on the east coast to ramp up export to Europe, not to mention decrease our need for Russian oil, along with Saudi oil , by using Canadian oil instead. All of it has been dumped becasue we are in a climate crises that we really are not doing much about. 

 

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6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Most people have literally zero understanding of monetary policy so if you just screech about how bad they are then the ignorant sort of fall in line behind you.  DAMN THOSE CENTRAL BANKERS!

Most people don't realize that mainstream economists also regard the environment as something that's external to the economy - almost like it doesn't matter or something.

Recall the proverbial passengers stuck in the backseat of the car grandpa decided to take a nap in while driving towards a cliff? They're pretty much all nodding off too.

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16 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I don't think Justin has any understanding of monetary policy whatsoever, nor does most of his government.  Thankfully, guys like Carney, Poloz and Macklem do, and they're the ones making the decisions on these issues.  

I genuinely don't mean to insult you here, but if you think these are monetary policy issues then you don't know what monetary policy is.  

Again, not monetary policy.  

Central banks couldn't anticipate Russia invading Ukraine, or COVID and the supply-chain shortages they delivered.  Those impossible-to-predict events are only one side of the challenges they face.  Sometimes they CAN see inflationary pressure coming, but can't actually do anything to affect it.  Widespread drought for example, have predictable outcomes for food prices, but monetary policy doesn't solve them. 

It's easy for populists to point at the central banks for a scapegoat though.  Most people have literally zero understanding of monetary policy so if you just screech about how bad they are then the ignorant sort of fall in line behind you.  DAMN THOSE CENTRAL BANKERS!

Those are naive positions.  The central banks have become heavily politicized and activist.   Yellen has decided that fighting climate change is one of her mandates.  Carney thinks similarly.  Macklem has been absent.  Why weren’t these figures sounding off about the moral hazard of government overspending and debt?  Why were interest rates not raised more gradually earlier on?  Why is our government meddling in the banking sector to such a degree as to threaten or seize finances on political grounds?

So many lines were crossed during the pandemic   We continue to hear “crisis” being used as the excuse to circumvent constitutional rights   The kid running our country is in so far over his head, not that his top Cabinet members are better. It’s taking too long to restore freedom and prosperity.  Ukraine and identity politics are mostly distractions from this.  Russia could be brought back into the fold with the right diplomacy.  We continue to see the neo-liberal/conservative war-mongerers cause trouble.  I don’t trust our current leadership.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Those are naive positions.  The central banks have become heavily politicized and activist.

No, that's just something you guys yell about at one another in your reddit chats, because central bankers BAD, conspiracy,  WEF, something something.  

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

  Yellen has decided that fighting climate change is one of her mandates.  Carney thinks similarly.

Yellen's is the treasury secretary (the parallel to our Minister of Finance) and is the president's chief advisor on fiscal and economic policy.  She is not a monetary policy officer, and if you had any idea what you were talking about then you wouldn't have brought her up.  

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11 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Make Work Pay

This video is embarrassingly stupid.  
The more I work, the more money I make. It really doesn’t go the other way.  Effectively, PP says you should be taxed less the more you work.  LOL   And he has the temerity to say that it will generate more tax revenue.   He’s either stupid, or lying.  

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2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

This video is embarrassingly stupid.  
The more I work, the more money I make. It really doesn’t go the other way.  Effectively, PP says you should be taxed less the more you work.  LOL   And he has the temerity to say that it will generate more tax revenue.   He’s either stupid, or lying.  

 

Pierre could have a goose that lays golden eggs and you'd claim it was an inefficient way to acquire gold.

?

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1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

Lowering taxes for the wealthy and claiming that it will increase tax revenue is not a new idea. 
 

He’s pissing on your leg and telling you it’s raining. 

 

He's pissing on someone's leg.

??

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13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Sorry was not very clear, It is Justins decision to cut the amount of fertilizer farmers used in order to curb carbon emissions, which will reduce crop output and then drive prices up due to shortage.

Farmers around the world have been abusing poor farming practices for years and their crying about fertilizers is based on only wanting to plant the same cash crops over and over rather than rotate their fields properly.  I live in an agi community and this isn't near the catastrophe they make it out to be.  Canada is actually not even that bad of an offender.  The targets are for 2030 and they're still in the consultation phase.  

13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Same as oil Liberal polices to drastically reduce this industry, is choking profits( except for the last 3 or 4 months) It does not make much economical sense to do this on the edge of a recession. And if Justins and his gang does not know better why is the central  bank not advising them on this.

I agree here, but their mistakes have mostly been handling the pipeline file and not getting oil to the market.  

13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I don't think your giving the stock market any credit, they knew the shortages where coming, to be honest most people knew that the lack of workers/ Covid was going to hurt availability, Like computer chips for instance, shortages where so bad the US decided to make their own plant in the US,  traders where getting out of stocks that were losing ground and into those that were not...

Sure they knew, but there's nothing they can do about it.  Raising interest rates doesn't increase chip production in Taiwan, but it might make it harder for US manufacturers to make their own chips to help ease it.  

13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Not all stocks are down this year, some stocks are reporting major profits, along with some major traders, So they can't be all that blind to what is happening around the globe either that or very lucky.

There are always winners in even the worst markets.  I'm not sure what you think this proves...

13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

You just said 4.5 to 5 % of inflation numbers are covid spending, inflation is in the mid 7.5 percent, thats more than half, that can be traced back to liberal policies...

No, because natural target inflation is between 1.5-3%.  

13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

And we did need some covid spending, but relief measures according to the PBO does not count for 1/2 that number, and no one is saying where the rest has gone to... Once again liberal actions were taken , i can only assume the central bank did say something...It is their job right. 

Maybe quote the PBO here because I don't really understand what you're talking about. 

13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I agree i think PP has stated they did not act soon enough

Even the central bank says they didn't act soon enough.  Inflation was worse than expected.  It happens.  They don't always get it right and they never get it perfect.  Usually they error on the opposite side, raising rates before they should and shocking the economy into premature and unnecessary recession.   

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7 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

He might be if that was what he said. But it wasn't. So the only one pissing on our leg here is you.

 

They're a little nervous seeing Pierre draw actual mobs of friendly admirers without needing a stitch of (visible) security. Trudeau needs twenty guards to go with him to take a sheet.

So say SOMETHING damnit...anything. Lie if you have to...say he has a bladder problem!

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13 hours ago, eyeball said:

Most people don't realize that mainstream economists also regard the environment as something that's external to the economy - almost like it doesn't matter or something.

Recall the proverbial passengers stuck in the backseat of the car grandpa decided to take a nap in while driving towards a cliff? They're pretty much all nodding off too.

There are economists that try to calculate it, but it's not a very clear science and it ignores the main problem of all the environmental (particularly carbon-based) action plans.  Unilateral action without buy-in from your neighbors and competitors is not helpful.  

Setting aggressive/painful carbon prices for your own industry while importing things from India or China doesn't reduce overall carbon.  You are just outsourcing your pollution (along with the associated jobs) to the third-world.  If you don't apply carbon-based duties on imports equal to the ones you're imposing on domestic polluters, you're just making yourself poorer for no net benefit.  These sorts of policies don't do much other than give downtown yuppies comfy feels and allow goofs like Trudeau to pat themselves on the back. 

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

No, that's just something you guys yell about at one another in your reddit chats, because central bankers BAD, conspiracy,  WEF, something something.  

Yellen's is the treasury secretary (the parallel to our Minister of Finance) and is the president's chief advisor on fiscal and economic policy.  She is not a monetary policy officer, and if you had any idea what you were talking about then you wouldn't have brought her up.  

I know who she is.  Her activism is totally inappropriate.  She tries to bark louder than Powell.  It’s a mess.  

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2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

There are economists that try to calculate it, but it's not a very clear science...

I don't know why, it was clear enough to James Malthus well over a century ago.

Oh well, I live in a region that doesn't seem to be as prone to climate change as other regions of the planet so it is what it is, which I suspect will be pedal to be the metal. I really don't know why there's so much angst over climate change action. What climate change action?

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