Conservative Leadership September 10th

[Faramir]

On 3/12/2022 at 10:57 AM, Jack9000 said:

with chong saying he's not running  Charest and Brown are the only 2 who would keep the CPC somewhat normal and avoid becoming PPC lite.

Charest is a small l Liberal.

[Faramir]

On 3/12/2022 at 10:04 PM, Moonbox said:

All or nothing!  Agree with me on everything or you're a commie nutter!  

I've voted Conservative...like 90% of the time.  I've also been a Trudeau hater for as long as I could vote.  Like I said before, you can search me on this forum and find posts about me complaining about him back when he originally elected as an MP.  That's what makes this sort of ranting so unbelievably retarded.  If believing the conspiracy theories, yelling moronic rhetoric about commies and fascists and just generally being an ignorant fool is the pre-requisite for being part of the CPC, you'll have a pretty small tent!  Good luck in the election....

 

You....are....a....conservative?  Maybe a Mitt Romney milquetoast conservative?

[Faramir]

On 3/13/2022 at 7:34 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

The purpose of a political party is to win elections. That is the sole purpose. It is not to impose some silly ideology in the mistaken idea that a single philosophical idea holds the solution to all problems. People will support a candidate that is competant, confident and astute. Lewis and Poilievre are tied into ideology. The road to defeating the grits is to win over as many voters who voted Liberal in the last election. We do that by offering them competant, intelligent candidates who will focus on solving problems rather than trying to impose their ideology. They have to inspire the voters' confidence. I can't decide whether I will support Mr. Charest or Mr. Brown in the leadership.

 

??? Ideology is EVERYTHING .  Even balancing the budget is based on an ideology.  I will concur Canadians are generally communists so electing a conservative is a really steep hill to climb.

What you are describing is an IDEAL.  The idea of responsible government.  That I think worked until the rising of Pierre Trudeau.  But not anymore.

[Faramir]

On 3/13/2022 at 9:30 AM, Jack9000 said:

 

i am not far left and can tell the difference between  cpc and lpc  wake up dude.

You are not far left but vote NDP.  NDP is like Trotskyite.  Slightly reformed Bolshevists.

[ironstone]

20 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You confuse physics with politics. You would put money ahead of other people's lives (future generations)? You just have to look at the fall of the western Roman empire to see the destruction of rapid climate change. Rome became a ghost town in just a few years because the temperature in Europe dropped.

But that wasn't man made climate change then was it? Or was it just natural climate change?

[Faramir]

23 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Conservatives who don't want their great grand children barbecued. You have a choice - get people to reduce their carbon emissions through taxes or rationing. Rationing is a lot more complicated and expensive. If you are bothered by the price of gas, buy an electric car. If you want Prime Minister Trudeau out, back either Charest or Brown. If you want Trudeau to stay in office forever, support Poilievre.

That is such alarmist BS.  If we REALLY believed global warming we would all move away from the coasts.

[Faramir]

I will start by summing up this forum as a welcome surprise of moderate Canadians, with a few exceptions.  I am use to encountering Huffington Post type of leftists online, so this is strange for me.  What many here regard as conservative I would have described as Red Toryism.  Never really met so many Red Tories before so its interesting getting their take on things.  I don't see ideology as a movable post.  It is what it is.  Fiscal conservatism is something I would think lies just right of centre. Either that like me you have basically given up. Pushing for government interference as an ideology belongs on the left.  So for those who think they embrace the middle view, I have to ask do your ideologies line up the George Bush conservatives?  Nation building.  War as policy.  Providing cover for the Saudi regime?  Wanting to send our children into more forever wars?

[Moonbox]

3 hours ago, Faramir said:

??? Ideology is EVERYTHING .  Even balancing the budget is based on an ideology. 

Balancing the budget is common sense and math.  There's nothing ideological about making sure you don't spend more than you can afford. 

3 hours ago, Faramir said:

I will concur Canadians are generally communists so electing a conservative is a really steep hill to climb.

Who are you...concurring with, exactly?  

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, Moonbox said:

1.... So we agree on that at, at least.  

2....Because they weren't very sincere.  Like I said before, you can't just mumble some mealy-mouthed assurances that abortion or gay marriage rights debates won't be part of the agenda.  The unfortunate reality for the fundamentalist Conservative base is that there are millions and millions of gay people and women who like to have sex in Canada, and nothing short of emphatically defending their rights on these issues is going to suffice.  Harper understood that.  The candidates since have not.   

3.....Then there's the Freedom Convoy, which was hugely unpopular and viewed (rightly IMO) as an angry mob of ignorant losers that even most Conservative voters found distasteful.  Aligning with those clowns (as Polievre has) will perhaps appeal to PPC voters and the CPC base, but it will turn off the centrist voters required to form a government.   

I4....t's a choice.  If you have two terrible options, you choose the less terrible one.  The adult solution here is elect someone who can bring the most voters into the CPC tent and win an election, which Pierre Poilievre is the opposite of.  If the CPC chooses to elect him leader, they'll have nobody but themselves to blame when they fail.  Canada will end up with the government they chose, and that won't be his.  

 

1..... We have always agreed on that, not sure why you did not pick up on that...

2....There are some social issues that are written in stone, abortion, gay marriage , everyone knows that and like queen says if they don't should not be in politics...But i want to add there is supporting these groups rights, but there is a line that does not include dancing in the streets on gay pride day...especially if they are being selective on who attends like no cops etc...

3. freedom convoy is a small blimp on the radar...and not sure how you can holds that against Pierre and not all the things Justin has done...

4.... one would hope that is what is going to happen, but it looks like right now Pierre is the main man...not by our chioce but others... 

[Moonbox]

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

but there is a line that does not include dancing in the streets on gay pride day...especially if they are being selective on who attends like no cops etc...

Nobody's asking you to show up at the parade in your buttless chaps.  There is a bare minimum requirement, however, that politicians guarantee and defend rights on these issues.  They can choose not to at their own peril, but having something like 10% of the electorate not trust you and then being unpopular with women is not a great starting point for an election campaign.  

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

3. freedom convoy is a small blimp on the radar...and not sure how you can holds that against Pierre and not all the things Justin has done...

I do hold everything Justin's done against him, but it too will end up being a blip on the radar.  The Emergency Act was unnecessary and an abuse of power, but it will be remembered as a cautionary tale rather than a turning point in Canadian politics.  This is something that Trudeau can and should lose his government over, but here's the problem:

The Freedom Convoy represents something worse to Canadians - an embracing of Trump-style politics and all of the ignorance, hate and anger it represents.  The craziest thing about the Emergencies Act isn't it was invoked without proper grounds, but rather that Canadians were so strongly against the Freedom Convoy that they didn't even care that much.    Say whatever you want about Trudeau, he wasn't worse than the Conspiracy Theorist in Chief.  

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

4.... one would hope that is what is going to happen, but it looks like right now Pierre is the main man...not by our chioce but others... 

and I'm almost certain that's bad for Canada.  It's bad for the Conservative Party because they'll lose the next election and it's also bad for Canadians because Trudeau and/or his government will be rewarded for their poor performance.  

Edited March 15, 2022 by Moonbox

[Yzermandius19]

41 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Say whatever you want about Trudeau, he wasn't worse than the Conspiracy Theorist in Chief. 

yes he was

by several orders of magnitude

this freedom convoy is worse than Trudeau crap is far left propaganda

pretending PP is Donald Trump and not Stephen Harper 2.0 is also asinine

you buy into all the dumbest lefty talking points and try to front like a conservative

the only people you are fooling is yourself and a few left wing nutjobs

Edited March 15, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Moonbox]

23 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

yes he was

by several orders of magnitude

He really wasn't.  Trudeau will be forgotten as an ineffective dolt 10 years.  Trump will long be remembered as not only the worst president in US history, but probably the worst leader in the G7 since WW2.  

23 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

this freedom convoy is worse than Trudeau crap is far left propaganda

Keep convincing yourself of that if you have to, but the fact is that Canadians found the Freedom Convoy such an ignorant, stupid and distasteful movement that they barely even cared about the Emergency Act.  This wasn't Far-Left sentiment.  This was just...everyone sentiment.  Even the majority of the CPC members disagreed with what they were doing.  

27 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

pretending PP is Donald Trump and not Stephen Harper 2.0 is also asinine

you buy into all the dumbest lefty talking points and try to front like a conservative

the only people you are fooling is yourself and a few left wing nutjobs

PP is hardly Stephen Harper 2.0.  At best he's doing an impression of Preston Manning. 

Though he's certainly no Donald Trump, the Freedom Convoy was VERY Trumpy (as is your moronic hyperbole) and by voicing his support for them and by being a bit of a demagogue himself, that's how Canadian voters will view him.  His Purity politics in the leadership campaign is only confirming it.  

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

He really wasn't.  Trudeau will be forgotten as an ineffective dolt 10 years.  Trump will long be remembered as not only the worst president in US history, but probably the worst leader in the G7 since WW2.  

Keep convincing yourself of that if you have to, but the fact is that Canadians found the Freedom Convoy such an ignorant, stupid and distasteful movement that they barely even cared about the Emergency Act.  This wasn't Far-Left sentiment.  This was just...everyone sentiment.  Even the majority of the CPC members disagreed with what they were doing.  

PP is hardly Stephen Harper 2.0.  At best he's doing an impression of Preston Manning. 

Though he's certainly no Donald Trump, the Freedom Convoy was VERY Trumpy (as is your moronic hyperbole) and by voicing his support for them and by being a bit of a demagogue himself, that's how Canadian voters will view him.  His Purity politics in the leadership campaign is only confirming it.  

Trump was the best POTUS since Reagan

it is Biden who will go down as one of the worst

most Canadians are on the far left

and their perception of the freedom convoy is a clear example of that

PP is a run of the mill Harpercon,

and you think that is somehow worse than Trudeau

which just goes how far to the left you are

O'Toole was much further left than Harper

and he still wasn't far enough to left for you to even come close to voting for him

you won't vote for any CPC candidate at this point

no matter how much further they move to left

all you will see is Donald Trump regardless 

they could become the furthest left party in Canada

and you'd still consider them far right white supremacists who are ignorant, distasteful and stupid, regardless of their actual politics

you will simply vote for whoever the media claims the "knowledgeable, tasteful and smart" voters are going to vote for

and against whoever the media claims the "ignorant, distasteful and stupid" voters are going to vote for

you do not think for yourself and you have no principles, you've descended into knee jerk identity politics

Edited March 15, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[ExFlyer]

As soon as Jean Charet announced his candidacy, Pierre Polievres  PR machine went to work with attack ads.

No sooner did whatshisface Brown joined the campaign, Poliiveres attack ad was on TV.

Did Polievre hire Donald Trumps campaign managers?

He cannot very well attack a black woman and who cares about the other guy LOL

It will be a long and fretful summer if he keeps this up. I know I certainly will never vote for someone that resorts to this kind of tactic.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, Moonbox said:

  Trudeau will be forgotten as an ineffective dolt 10 years.  

I think that in 10 years, his advisors and team will be more famous than him.  Given the major trifecta of challenges with Trump, Covid and the Ukraine War he has a lot to deal with for someone without qualifications.  

I maintain that he, and Doug Ford, had the basic wisdom to recognize that they are the face of their advisors.  And it's lucky for us too.

[Michael Hardner]

Instead of talking about the Ukraine war, we should talk about the leadership contest.

How come nobody has talked about Poilievre's plan to fast-track immigrants ?

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/poilievre-promises-to-speed-up-wait-times-for-approving-foreign-credentials/wcm/bad2e723-7228-4bba-a2fe-bf5bd831700d

 

Seems to me that his base would just HATE this.  But he's an economist so it actually makes sense.  If you are hardcore social-rightie you may have to bite the bullet and vote for the black lady, sorry.

[Nationalist]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Instead of talking about the Ukraine war, we should talk about the leadership contest.

How come nobody has talked about Poilievre's plan to fast-track immigrants ?

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/poilievre-promises-to-speed-up-wait-times-for-approving-foreign-credentials/wcm/bad2e723-7228-4bba-a2fe-bf5bd831700d

 

Seems to me that his base would just HATE this.  But he's an economist so it actually makes sense.  If you are hardcore social-rightie you may have to bite the bullet and vote for the black lady, sorry.

Lying again are ya...what a surprise.

Quote

Poilievre's plan to fast-track immigrants

This is a word-salad lie. Poilievre's plan is to speed up the EVALUATION of skills of any immigrant who wants to work in his or her trained profession in Canada. For instance, a doctor from India. A nurse from Syria. Such people should not be cabbies or cashiers at the grocery store.

That's called "merit-based immigration". But you already knew that and decided to lie instead...Mr. faux conservative.

 

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

He really wasn't.  Trudeau will be forgotten as an ineffective dolt 10 years.  Trump will long be remembered as not only the worst president in US history, but probably the worst leader in the G7 since WW2.  

Keep convincing yourself of that if you have to, but the fact is that Canadians found the Freedom Convoy such an ignorant, stupid and distasteful movement that they barely even cared about the Emergency Act.  This wasn't Far-Left sentiment.  This was just...everyone sentiment.  Even the majority of the CPC members disagreed with what they were doing.  

PP is hardly Stephen Harper 2.0.  At best he's doing an impression of Preston Manning. 

Though he's certainly no Donald Trump, the Freedom Convoy was VERY Trumpy (as is your moronic hyperbole) and by voicing his support for them and by being a bit of a demagogue himself, that's how Canadian voters will view him.  His Purity politics in the leadership campaign is only confirming it.  

You’re so off base that I don’t know where to begin.

I wasn’t a Trump supporter but it’s obvious that the world was a better place under Trump than it is now.  There were no wars and he had the respect of Putin and leaders that are posing a direct threat to Western Europe.  Iran is now threatening the US in Iraq as Biden tries to hammer out another nuclear deal.  China is looming over Taiwan.  NATO is getting embroiled in Ukraine without a clear sense of direction when there can only be a political solution there.

The Freedom Convoy was an attempt to push back against unconstitutional and oppressive vaccine mandates that have created a two tier society in Canada and stripped citizens of rights.  If they and their supporters didn’t push back against government, I’m not sure the provinces would’ve removed mandates.  The federal government still hasn’t removed them.  The federal government is working against the interests of the people.

With regard to Pierre Polievre, he would probably be a strong federal leader who would restore our freedoms and lower the cost of living.  There’s nothing that he has said that warrants fear.  I fear our current federal government’s overreach.

You say strange things that I don’t think most Canadians would support, thankfully.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

53 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. Lying again are ya...what a surprise.  This is a word-salad lie. Poilievre's plan is to speed up the EVALUATION of skills of any immigrant who wants to work in his or her trained profession in Canada. For instance, a doctor from India. A nurse from Syria. Such people should not be cabbies or cashiers at the grocery store.

2. That's called "merit-based immigration". But you already knew that and decided to lie instead...Mr. faux conservative.

 

1. "lies" meaning "a truth you don't like".  Of course he's planning to fast track accreditation for skilled immigrants.  I'm sorry that that upsets you.  Here's from the National Post: Poilievre showed in announcing his measures to speed accreditation for skilled immigrants

2. It's the system we currently have, but with more jobs open for immigrants.  

We are barely disagreeing on this, you deciding that the wording that is used isn't to your liking is a "lie"... anyway.  More immigrant doctors, professionals and IT people.  Good right ???

[Michael Hardner]

Here's a more stark assessment of what "Pakistan Pierre" is up to:

Poilievre pitches to new immigrants

"Pitches" means gives a sales job to, means is trying to get votes from, means that he is trying to win them over.

You can win over some people, without leaving others behind.

Like: Old stock Canadians, anti-Immigrant people, Don Cherry... 

Get thee to the PPC...

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. "lies" meaning "a truth you don't like".  Of course he's planning to fast track accreditation for skilled immigrants.  I'm sorry that that upsets you.  Here's from the National Post: Poilievre showed in announcing his measures to speed accreditation for skilled immigrants

2. It's the system we currently have, but with more jobs open for immigrants.  

We are barely disagreeing on this, you deciding that the wording that is used isn't to your liking is a "lie"... anyway.  More immigrant doctors, professionals and IT people.  Good right ???

You said:

Quote

Poilievre's plan to fast-track immigrants

NOW you say:

Quote

fast track accreditation for skilled immigrants

You Sir, are a Gawd Damn LIAR! A word-smith set to twist reality to support your twisted mentality.

Intellectual and Academic trash.

[Zeitgeist]

I don’t know what you’re arguing, Hardner.  You’re illustrating why Polievre isn’t some right-wing anti-immigrant politician.  That’s the point.  He wants to elevate people to their rightful place in the economy.  Engineers or doctors should be working in those fields, not forced to drive taxis their whole lives.  

Edited March 15, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. You Sir, are a Gawd Damn LIAR!
2. A word-smith set to twist reality to support your twisted mentality.
3. Intellectual and Academic trash.

1. Oh for FS.  'Skilled Immigrants" are a subset of immigrants.  Imagine if you parsed everything from your side so carefully and haughtily declared 'lies' as often.  Imagine... In any case, your correction is accepted and I will endeavour to be more clear in future.
2. Riiight.
3. Stop your sobbing.

But - you didn't answer my question and now I am suspicious - GOOD RIGHT ?!?

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

1.  You’re illustrating why Polievre isn’t some right-wing anti-immigrant politician.  
2. That’s the point.  He wants to elevate people to their rightful place in the economy.  Engineers or doctors should be working in those fields, not forced to drive taxis their whole lives.  

1. Yes, I know that.
2. Agreed.  

TBH I am heartened by this but I think that his supporters will be tested by the approach he has set forth.

[Nationalist]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Oh for FS.  'Skilled Immigrants" are a subset of immigrants.  Imagine if you parsed everything from your side so carefully and haughtily declared 'lies' as often.  Imagine... In any case, your correction is accepted and I will endeavour to be more clear in future.
2. Riiight.
3. Stop your sobbing.

But - you didn't answer my question and now I am suspicious - GOOD RIGHT ?!?

Stop you lying and man-up. You are NOT a conservative. You are a Libbie shill.

You've been caught warping things over and over. Thus you're not even very good at it.

Of course its good. Yet unless I'd taken your particular brand of horse shit to task, you'd never have corrected yourself.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Nationalist