Is Putin losing his mind?

[Aristides]

30 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Putin is taking advantage of a period of weakness in the US and NATO powers.  He knows that these countries have hobbled themselves with anti-energy green policies and equity policies that put representation above competence.  Now we essentially have NATO militaries that are weakened by internal struggles with MeToo inquisitions and equity programs that put considerations of representation above merit.  The west is weakened and less prepared for hard power challenges.  Putin has been signalling for years that he wants to maintain a buffer between Russia and NATO and that Ukraine is too culturally linked to Russia to flip to NATO.  There are many Russian speaking people in Eastern Ukraine and they have been under some attack from Ukraine nationalists, including Neo-Nazis.  That doesn’t excuse the invasion or hurting of innocent people.  Really this should end with some kind of assurance of protection for Eastern Ukraine and an assurance from Russia that Ukraine can maintain its democracy, perhaps with an assurance that Ukraine remains outside NATO.  Russia has to mend fences.

 

Who will believe any Russian assurances of Ukrainian independence as long as Putin is in power?

[BubberMiley]

43 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Putin is taking advantage of a period of weakness in the US and NATO powers.  He knows that these countries have hobbled themselves with anti-energy green policies and equity policies that put representation above competence.  Now we essentially have NATO militaries that are weakened by internal struggles with MeToo inquisitions and equity programs that put considerations of representation above merit.  The west is weakened and less prepared for hard power challenges.  Putin has been signalling for years that he wants to maintain a buffer between Russia and NATO and that Ukraine is too culturally linked to Russia to flip to NATO.  There are many Russian speaking people in Eastern Ukraine and they have been under some attack from Ukraine nationalists, including Neo-Nazis.  That doesn’t excuse the invasion or hurting of innocent people.  Really this should end with some kind of assurance of protection for Eastern Ukraine and an assurance from Russia that Ukraine can maintain its democracy, perhaps with an assurance that Ukraine remains outside NATO.  Russia has to mend fences.

 

You need to step away from the pro-Putin blogs.

[Zeitgeist]

15 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

You need to step away from the pro-Putin blogs.

You need to do more research.

The information I shared isn’t pro-Putin.  You just don’t know some important details behind what’s happening.  

Edited March 6, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[BubberMiley]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You need to do more research.

The information I shared isn’t pro-Putin.  You just don’t know some important details behind what’s happening.  

It's almost word-for-word Russian disinformation. 

[-TSS-]

Of course Russia will win the war. The bigger and stronger one always ultimately wins.

But Russia will lose the economic war with devastating consequences. They will remain an isolated pariah-state for as long as they are in Ukraine. Their economy is going to collapse.

No chance that is going to be allowed to happen. Russians have been used to have something reminiscent of normal life of a capitalist country for 30 years now. There are millions of people who have no memory nor experience of really hard times of empty shelves in shops and long queues outside them.

The economic sanctions will break Russia. Some sort of a palace-coup is inevitable.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

It's almost word-for-word Russian disinformation. 

Yup you don’t know much about what’s going on in Ukraine.  You obviously didn’t even watch the clip I shared.  Do you know that the Israeli PM is talking to Putin this weekend?   Do you know the history of Ukraine and its last couple of governments?  Do you know what happened in Ukraine during WW2?  Do you know what happened to the Soviet Union former republics after the USSR collapsed?   Don’t worry, I don’t expect answers from you.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

43 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

Of course Russia will win the war. The bigger and stronger one always ultimately wins.

But Russia will lose the economic war with devastating consequences. They will remain an isolated pariah-state for as long as they are in Ukraine. Their economy is going to collapse.

No chance that is going to be allowed to happen. Russians have been used to have something reminiscent of normal life of a capitalist country for 30 years now. There are millions of people who have no memory nor experience of really hard times of empty shelves in shops and long queues outside them.

The economic sanctions will break Russia. Some sort of a palace-coup is inevitable.

I’m not so sure.  China will buy Russian goods and resources.  The USSR was pretty self-sufficient.  I’m not saying they won’t suffer for this, but the worst thing NATO allies could do is pretend that Putin had no reasons for getting involved in Ukraine.  The Ukraine joining NATO was Putin’s line in the sand.  It would be like Canada joining China…Oh wait, wake up Sleepy Joe!  Lol.  

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Putin is taking advantage of a period of weakness in the US and NATO powers.

A period of weakness that started over 60 years ago when our biggest allies knocked off a democracy in Iran and replaced it with a dictatorship.   Dictators have been moving into and profiting from that moral breech and vacuum ever since.

An overblown and politically overexploited (by the military industrial complex) fear of communism and the fear of facing them head on caused us to lose the courage of our convictions, sacrifice our principles and kick a can down the road that we've now caught up with.

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

1. A period of weakness that started over 60 years ago when our biggest allies knocked off a democracy in Iran and replaced it with a dictatorship.    

2. An overblown and politically overexploited (by the military industrial complex) fear of communism and the fear of facing them head on caused us to lose the courage of our convictions, sacrifice our principles and kick a can down the road that we've now caught up with.

1. Don't play into this - it's more like your #2:
2. Weakness, no, but reluctance to go to war YES.  And why shouldn't we be ?  Our world, our way of life - for good and bad - has been winning and we're convinced that it will choke out any competing world views. 

The collapse of the Warsaw Pact solidified that idea in the public mind.   The steady defection of former Eastern Bloc countries to NATO and the EU isn't a period of weakness.  If this war continues, the resolve to provide humanitarian aid, no-fly zones to counter Putin may grow and he will reduce his options even further.

[Michael Hardner]

10 hours ago, -TSS- said:

1. Of course Russia will win the war. The bigger and stronger one always ultimately wins.

2. But Russia will lose the economic war with devastating consequences. They will remain an isolated pariah-state for as long as they are in Ukraine. Their economy is going to collapse.

3. Some sort of a palace-coup is inevitable.

1. How do you think they will be able to control and occupy Ukraine ?  The citizens would continue to resist even if central command surrenders.
2. I hope that a deterrent such as this is a factor, but so many will be hurt - in Russia also.
3. Hard to imagine, and yet still easier to imagine (for me) than a Russian victory, or endless conflict on this scale.

[-TSS-]

I don't disagree with you. Even if Russia overthrows the Ukrainian regime and installs its own puppet-government they would have to stay there because the puppet-government couldn't last one single day on its own.

That in turn costs Russia still more while the sanctions already are destabilising the Russian economy.

All this in public knowledge that it didn't have to be this way and it doesn't have to go on this way.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Don't play into this - it's more like your #2:
2. Weakness, no, but reluctance to go to war YES.  And why shouldn't we be ?  Our world, our way of life - for good and bad - has been winning and we're convinced that it will choke out any competing world views. 

The collapse of the Warsaw Pact solidified that idea in the public mind.   The steady defection of former Eastern Bloc countries to NATO and the EU isn't a period of weakness.  If this war continues, the resolve to provide humanitarian aid, no-fly zones to counter Putin may grow and he will reduce his options even further.

I just think our victory will be pyrrhic and short lived. I need more convincing when I factor in the avoidance of transparency and the sustainability issues our way of life is showing signs of choking on.

Of course everyone should be reluctant to go to war - there are all sort of things we need to be more reluctant about.    

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Of course everyone should be reluctant to go to war - there are all sort of things we need to be more reluctant about.    

Absolutely.  Maybe if we squelch the conspiracy people from hogging the microphone, we can focus on making life better.

[Army Guy]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. How do you think they will be able to control and occupy Ukraine ?  The citizens would continue to resist even if central command surrenders.
 

1. You mean like Chechen conflict, dissenters were just killed...like Georgia conflict resisters crushed, it is what Russia does...Putin learned this first hand from past leaders , nothing is going to change, and if the food lines come back then so be it, It is going to take a lot more to change Putin's mind...Russia has been here before, and it took decades to make change, the only way this is going to change is from within...

[cougar]

17 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

It's almost word-for-word Russian disinformation. 

Yeah, you listen to CBC or NBC to tell you exactly the truth.?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Absolutely.  Maybe if we squelch the conspiracy people from hogging the microphone, we can focus on making life better.

But the same attitude that ignores valid concerns behind some of these so-called conspiracies is willfully ignorant about Ukrainian and Eastern European history.  How many people know about or are willing to learn about the Polish Lithuanian Empire that reached down into Ukraine or the carving up of Eastern Europe by Napoleon and Czarist Russia in the Treaty of Tilsit?   What about the presence of two main sects of Christianity in Ukraine, the Orthodox and Ukrainian Catholic or Byzantine Rite Catholic?   How about Ukrainian ethno-nationalism that has suppressed minorities like Hungarians and Jews in Ukraine?  Does the West know what it supports? How democratic has Ukraine been, even without Russia breathing down its neck?  Does the West have a fair reading about why Russia might be worried about further NATO expansion eastwards?

There’s much complexity to this subject and Trudeau is probably well in over his head.  Freeland is not a disinterested party in this.  Her family heritage is with Ukraine ethno-nationalists.  Her grandfather ran a pro-Nazi newspaper during the war that circulated in Poland and Ukraine.  She has been barred from entering Russia for years.  I don’t know her stance on Ukraine exactly, but she’s not exactly a disinterested party.  

[BubberMiley]

12 minutes ago, cougar said:

Yeah, you listen to CBC or NBC to tell you exactly the truth.?

Yes, Putin spent a lot of time and money on cyber-ops to instill mistrust in the MSM by feeding you fake news. That's true.

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, BubberMiley said:

Yes, Putin spent a lot of time and money on cyber-ops to instill mistrust in the MSM by feeding you fake news. That's true.

Your knowledge on Ukraine is shallow.  

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Yes, Putin spent a lot of time and money on cyber-ops to instill mistrust in the MSM by feeding you fake news. That's true.

Watch for the fake news mill to slow now...

Not sure if the useful idiots here who trust Putin more than domestic news will notice it not.

 

It seems like Tucker Carlson has backed off though.

[Zeitgeist]

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Don't play into this - it's more like your #2:
2. Weakness, no, but reluctance to go to war YES.  And why shouldn't we be ?  Our world, our way of life - for good and bad - has been winning and we're convinced that it will choke out any competing world views. 

The collapse of the Warsaw Pact solidified that idea in the public mind.   The steady defection of former Eastern Bloc countries to NATO and the EU isn't a period of weakness.  If this war continues, the resolve to provide humanitarian aid, no-fly zones to counter Putin may grow and he will reduce his options even further.

You still won’t acknowledge the fundamental mistake that is the root cause of this situation, which was the West’s refusal to accept Russia into the NATO security fold after the collapse of the Soviet Union.  It’s hard for Russians not to see the subsequent recruitment of former Eastern Block countries into NATO as anything other than a kind of colonial expansion at Russia’s expense.  If you don’t appreciate the significance of that chain of events, you have no depth of understanding for why this invasion is happening.  The invasion is bad, but Putin decided it was worth doing.  Yes he’ll pay a big price, but so will all Ukraine and the world to some degree if there’s no political resolution. I’m not sure Putin or another Russian leader won’t try it again unless they get some assurances.  And yes, citizens of Ukraine must self-determine their future, but it may have to happen regionally to placate Eastern Ukraine.  I don’t really know.  

Edited March 6, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Nexii]

There's no way Russia can win this. The Taliban were not nearly as armed and the USA couldn't hold Afghanistan. And Russia is no USA where it comes to military power. When even multimillionaire athletes who have it made are going back to Ukraine to fight, you know that the average Ukrainian is fighting back hard.

This will likely be the end of the Russian regime as we know it. It may take awhile but the sanctions will crush an already fragile and corrupt economy. China will continue to trade with Russia but they won't be getting sweetheart deals that's for sure. China will be getting the better end of that.

[Nefarious Banana]

Inappropriate question . . . but, nonetheless:

Given the bloodshed, casualties, and death inflicted on the population of Ukraine . . .  if you had the crosshairs on Vladimir Putin's head . . . . would you?

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Inappropriate question . . . but, nonetheless:

Given the bloodshed, casualties, and death inflicted on the population of Ukraine . . .  if you had the crosshairs on Vladimir Putin's head . . . . would you?

Yes, given what I just saw on the news, without a moment's hesitation.  I said in an earlier thread he should have a bounty placed on him.  I can't help but think restraint from our side is going to be easier to overcome as time passes.  My wife is still in distress after listening to a dog crying in fear and pain alongside its dead human family just killed in a blast.  It's pretty fucking awful what's going on over there.

So I wonder how much of Putin's nuclear forces are in as shabby condition as his conventional forces?  How many of his missiles will simply fizzle or explode on the spot when launched?

[West]

https://tnc.news/2022/03/07/anti-russian-sentiments-on-the-rise-in-canada/

More Russiophobia hate in Vancouver. Leftists are really losing their minds now

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, West said:

https://tnc.news/2022/03/07/anti-russian-sentiments-on-the-rise-in-canada/

More Russiophobia hate in Vancouver. Leftists are really losing their minds now

Is there a compelling reason why lefties and righties shouldn't be trying to eliminate one another?  This struggle between Russia and Ukraine seems to be encompassing two primary competing visions for the future, one in which raw power determines the shape of society and one in which it doesn't.  I realize both sides imagine it's entirely the other side that's in the wrong but so what if it just doesn't matter?

Why not just bury all the goddamn hatchets and get it out of our systems?  Is there a way to apply sanctions against an ideology that works that might keep us away from each other's throats? I suppose we should at least try that before someone finally says...