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Vaccine Mandates and Emergencies Act


Emergencies Act  

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15 hours ago, Moonbox said:

1....According to that website, trends are looking positive virtually everywhere, especially in Ontario where I live.  The mandates had to end and this is as good a time as any.  

I'm not sure where you're drawing your data from.  In the Prairies I guess those numbers don't add up, but the mandates are provincial and you'd have to ask them.

 trendpicprovince.thumb.png.d75d13cf6ca26329a77f519c2097fe98.png 

2.... It was absolutely science-based.  These arguments are so old and boring now.  Vaccinated experience far less severe illness from COVID, stay sick for shorter periods of time, are far less likely to need hospitalization and thus are less likely to transmit the disease to others, allow it to mutate or make more vulnerable people sick.  That's the science, despite whatever the jokers here would claim.  

3...So do I, and those people are didn't bother anyone.  I don't think their decision was wise, but I can respect that it was their decision.  It's the fools that ranted and raved against the restrictions, spouted pseudo-scientific bullshit, called the government totalitarians and anyone who accepted the mandates woke-liberal-sheeple (or whatever) that drew all the criticism, and they deserved it.  

4...Probably both.  Conditions have improved dramatically.  We have vaccines.  We have relatively effective treatments.  Winter is ending.  Omicron is less severe, and then yeah, there's probably fatigue from being locked-down too. 

5...Your question seems a bit screwy though, because it sounds like there's no situation that would please you.  You want the lockdowns to end, but the fact that they're ending indicates the rationale behind them was bad?  Come on.  

1....Based on science or best medical guess, last 14 days 303 deaths have occurred in Ont, and only 25,000 new cases... then there is this from the same source. Risk levels are High...Yup good time to throw out all the mandates...and while rates are starting to fall , the risk levels still remain high, science , best guess or fatigue ?

Risk to Canadians

COVID-19 is a serious health threat, and the situation is evolving daily. The risk varies between and within communities, but given the number of cases in Canada, the risk to Canadians is considered high.

 

2...Maybe you need to re read all those science documents...while most of that is true for those that are in the age bracket of 30 and above, or you have an underlying medical condition...those 30 and below did not experience severe sickness, did not require hospitalization, Allowing it to "mutate" your reaching here, until the entire globe is vaccinated, and we still allow global travel, this virus will mutate regardless....All of that has been proven by science...but once again the sides are polarized and do not want to hear the other side period... and before you include me in that goofy crowd of wingnuts, i am triple vaccinated, becasue of my age group and underlying medical issues. so is my family ...

3...So it is the fringe that your directing all your comments to, becasue you don't make that distinction , it sounds like you included all those unvaccinated people in your comments...

4... We have reached the 90 % across the country well before the convoy , but still had mandates and people screaming death to the unvaccinated, so what has changed...my guess is everyone is fatigued and done with all this mandate stuff, and whether government wants to admit it or not i think they are tired of it all as well, but you won't hear them admit that, instead they use the "science says" we can do it... here in NB once our case count got above a couple hundred it was total lock down, several times... today it is at 4952...with higher deaths and higher hospitalizations...and yet by mid month we are going with NO mandates no masks, no nothing...like a lot of provinces, now the governments have been saying time after time we are following the science...and yet when you look at the numbers the science should say "not yet we are not ready"... so maybe you can start to see the trust gap here...

5... My questions are not screwy, i want to know what has changed either the science that was being used yesterday is no longer valid, or by some miracle they have changed the science and now everything is golden...

which leads me to question the science to begin with...becasue the science is the same, and really nothing has really changed  drastically...  And just becasue things have improved 50 % does not mean everything is sunshine and rainbows...people are still dying, and the case counts are not that great...yes it is omicron, and is less dangerous... not to the 303 that died in Ont or close to 900 across the country in the last 14 days...or the close to 110,000 cases across the country...to them it is F***ing serious...

All the sides in this topic have bent the truth or science to fit their argument, but when it comes down to it, the choice remains an individual one, with that choice comes consequences and "most" Canadians followed those rules to the letter, it is the fringe that were complaining we are all Nazi's etc..."Whats New around here"...and i'm sure if everyone on this forum was at a bar, someone would have had to call ambulances ..lots of them, it got way out of control and stayed that way...and not just the fringe element, but a lot of the adults around here as well... 

Edited by Army Guy
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9 hours ago, Army Guy said:

1....Based on science or best medical guess, last 14 days 303 deaths have occurred in Ont, and only 25,000 new cases... then there is this from the same source. Risk levels are High...Yup good time to throw out all the mandates...and while rates are starting to fall , the risk levels still remain high, science , best guess or fatigue ?

Risk to Canadians

COVID-19 is a serious health threat, and the situation is evolving daily. The risk varies between and within communities, but given the number of cases in Canada, the risk to Canadians is considered high.

 

2...Maybe you need to re read all those science documents...while most of that is true for those that are in the age bracket of 30 and above, or you have an underlying medical condition...those 30 and below did not experience severe sickness, did not require hospitalization, Allowing it to "mutate" your reaching here, until the entire globe is vaccinated, and we still allow global travel, this virus will mutate regardless....All of that has been proven by science...but once again the sides are polarized and do not want to hear the other side period... and before you include me in that goofy crowd of wingnuts, i am triple vaccinated, becasue of my age group and underlying medical issues. so is my family ...

3...So it is the fringe that your directing all your comments to, becasue you don't make that distinction , it sounds like you included all those unvaccinated people in your comments...

4... We have reached the 90 % across the country well before the convoy , but still had mandates and people screaming death to the unvaccinated, so what has changed...my guess is everyone is fatigued and done with all this mandate stuff, and whether government wants to admit it or not i think they are tired of it all as well, but you won't hear them admit that, instead they use the "science says" we can do it... here in NB once our case count got above a couple hundred it was total lock down, several times... today it is at 4952...with higher deaths and higher hospitalizations...and yet by mid month we are going with NO mandates no masks, no nothing...like a lot of provinces, now the governments have been saying time after time we are following the science...and yet when you look at the numbers the science should say "not yet we are not ready"... so maybe you can start to see the trust gap here...

5... My questions are not screwy, i want to know what has changed either the science that was being used yesterday is no longer valid, or by some miracle they have changed the science and now everything is golden...

which leads me to question the science to begin with...becasue the science is the same, and really nothing has really changed  drastically...  And just becasue things have improved 50 % does not mean everything is sunshine and rainbows...people are still dying, and the case counts are not that great...yes it is omicron, and is less dangerous... not to the 303 that died in Ont or close to 900 across the country in the last 14 days...or the close to 110,000 cases across the country...to them it is F***ing serious...

All the sides in this topic have bent the truth or science to fit their argument, but when it comes down to it, the choice remains an individual one, with that choice comes consequences and "most" Canadians followed those rules to the letter, it is the fringe that were complaining we are all Nazi's etc..."Whats New around here"...and i'm sure if everyone on this forum was at a bar, someone would have had to call ambulances ..lots of them, it got way out of control and stayed that way...and not just the fringe element, but a lot of the adults around here as well... 

There are a lot more cases than what is being reported.  However, hospitalizations are down, along with ICU numbers and deaths.  Omicron is spreading and will spread further.  My immediate family had it and so did my parents.  Everyone recovered, however it did hit some of us harder.  I do believe vaccines help.  We can’t live under mandates and restrictions endlessly, however.  The vulnerable will have to be extra careful.  I’m not sure what more can be said on this.  I’m not worrying about it anymore.  That’s enough fear and deprivation, but knock yourself out if you want to continue the pandemic lifestyle.  

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Can you believe the moron we have as a "justice" minister? Her argument for suspending Bank accounts, violating the unreasonable search and seizure clause of the Charter, was that "no rights are absolute" lol. 

Yes lady that's why judges authorize these types of warrants, not politicians  

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4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Who reported that?

It's common knowledge that not all cases are being tested or reported, especially since the criteria for getting PCR tests was tightened.  It’s fine because presumably many people have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic.  We’ve known this for a while now.

From CP24:  “It should be noted that case counts reported by the province each day are not an accurate reflection of the true burden of infection in Ontario due to significant limitations on who is eligible for testing.”

https://beta.cp24.com/news/2022/3/9/1_5812110.html

Edited by Zeitgeist
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14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

1....Based on science or best medical guess, last 14 days 303 deaths have occurred in Ont, and only 25,000 new cases... then there is this from the same source. Risk levels are High...Yup good time to throw out all the mandates...and while rates are starting to fall , the risk levels still remain high, science , best guess or fatigue ?

Risk to Canadians

COVID-19 is a serious health threat, and the situation is evolving daily. The risk varies between and within communities, but given the number of cases in Canada, the risk to Canadians is considered high.

Based on science and best medical guesses, yeah.  That's about the best we can do.  Risks with COVID-19 remain high, but they're trending downwards and hospitals and health experts are in a better position to deal with them.  The hospitals remain disproportionately burdened with anti-vax morons, but at this point it's too much to ask that they wise up.  

14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

5... My questions are not screwy, i want to know what has changed either the science that was being used yesterday is no longer valid, or by some miracle they have changed the science and now everything is golden...

It was already explained to you. Your inability or unwillingness to understand/accept the science is pretty irrelevant.  It's a pretty screwy contradiction for you to spend all this time bitching and arguing about the mandates and the science behind them, but then when they finally start getting lifted you're bitching about the science behind them being lifted.  ?

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9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

There are a lot more cases than what is being reported.  However, hospitalizations are down, along with ICU numbers and deaths.  Omicron is spreading and will spread further.  My immediate family had it and so did my parents.  Everyone recovered, however it did hit some of us harder.  I do believe vaccines help.  We can’t live under mandates and restrictions endlessly, however.  The vulnerable will have to be extra careful.  I’m not sure what more can be said on this.  I’m not worrying about it anymore.  That’s enough fear and deprivation, but knock yourself out if you want to continue the pandemic lifestyle.  

Thats not my point, my point was this was suppose to be based all on Science, science had dictated lock downs shut downs of the entire country, killing thousands of Business and jobs... and our numbers are still high, the threat is still high according to Canada's web site... But a number of provinces are getting rid of mandates, my question was this decision based on science, or fatigue as it looks like Fatigue ( not complaining ) just asking why is science not guiding todays decision , or was it based on a medical best guess...

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7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Thats not my point, my point was this was suppose to be based all on Science, science had dictated lock downs shut downs of the entire country, killing thousands of Business and jobs... and our numbers are still high, the threat is still high according to Canada's web site... But a number of provinces are getting rid of mandates, my question was this decision based on science, or fatigue as it looks like Fatigue ( not complaining ) just asking why is science not guiding todays decision , or was it based on a medical best guess...

I think it’s based on inconclusive science combined with a political calculation about the costs/benefits of Covid measures in relation to non-Covid costs/benefits like businesses, education, mental health, etc.  “Science” isn’t neutral.  We have to choose what to measure and for what purpose.  Those are ethical, political, and economic considerations, as well as medical ones.

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5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Based on science and best medical guesses, yeah.  That's about the best we can do.  Risks with COVID-19 remain high, but they're trending downwards and hospitals and health experts are in a better position to deal with them.  The hospitals remain disproportionately burdened with anti-vax morons, but at this point it's too much to ask that they wise up.  

It was already explained to you. Your inability or unwillingness to understand/accept the science is pretty irrelevant.  It's a pretty screwy contradiction for you to spend all this time bitching and arguing about the mandates and the science behind them, but then when they finally start getting lifted you're bitching about the science behind them being lifted.  ?

No you did not explain anything to me your preaching to me, big difference, My position was the when medical best guess was enough to shut down the country, throw us all into limbo....and now very little has changed medical best guesses are saying what ? throw open the gates, and i want to know why....what science are they using,  what best guess are they using... and was the last 2 years worth the price we paid...becasue it sounds like everyone medical, government, health care advisors all threw up their hands and said fuck it...and why did it take 2 years to do that ?

You must have me confused with someone else, i was all for the basic mandates we had for non vaccinated, it was some of the wingnuts on here demanding them be put in camps, or in jail or higher taxes that i had a issue with..

 

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9 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

No you did not explain anything to me your preaching to me, big difference, My position was the when medical best guess was enough to shut down the country, throw us all into limbo....and now very little has changed medical best guesses are saying what ?

I already listed all the things that have changed.  I'll give you bullet points this time:

1)  Hospitalizations trending downward (I even provided a chart)

2) Vaccination rates are high

3) Proven treatments are available

4) Omicron is relatively mild

BONUS

5) The weather is improving and flu season is ending, with open windows and outdoor activities being far less of a risk.  

9 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

throw open the gates, and i want to know why....what science are they using,  what best guess are they using... and was the last 2 years worth the price we paid...becasue it sounds like everyone medical, government, health care advisors all threw up their hands and said fuck it...and why did it take 2 years to do that?

If things turn bad again, the mandates could be re-implemented.  They've made that clear.  Right now they're trending positively, and that's what Ontario's top doctors, health authorities and data are confirming.  Here's that chart again, incase you want to look at it again:

trendpicprovince.thumb.png.f1c3ead03a212b8106a12e3efd98c42c.png

Can't really comment on Alberta, SK or MB.  They're in their own little world out there.  

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39 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I already listed all the things that have changed.  I'll give you bullet points this time:

1)  Hospitalizations trending downward (I even provided a chart)

2) Vaccination rates are high

3) Proven treatments are available

4) Omicron is relatively mild

BONUS

5) The weather is improving and flu season is ending, with open windows and outdoor activities being far less of a risk.  

If things turn bad again, the mandates could be re-implemented.  They've made that clear.  Right now they're trending positively, and that's what Ontario's top doctors, health authorities and data are confirming.  Here's that chart again, incase you want to look at it again:

trendpicprovince.thumb.png.f1c3ead03a212b8106a12e3efd98c42c.png

Can't really comment on Alberta, SK or MB.  They're in their own little world out there.  

Thanks for your time.

 

 

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