blackbird Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 According to this article eliminating mandates and vaccine passports will reduce freedom for the majority. The problem is in the case of health measures, imposing certain restrictions does reduce the freedom for some people who refuse to get vaccinated and removing those restrictions likewise reduces freedoms for other people. For example, mandates are imposed to protect workers and people they deal with from the risk of catching Covid from unvaccinated people. If you remove the mandates, then you increase the chances of people catching Covid in the workplace or spreading Covid to the public by unvaccinated workers. A similar situation exists with the vaccine passports. If you remove the passports some people who are unvaccinated will then start going to restaurants, gyms, movie theatres, etc. and increase the risk to the vaccinated people. Opinion: Ditching vaccine passport reduces freedom for the majority (msn.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zeitgeist Posted February 5, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 Remove the totalitarian passports. Covid is everywhere and most working people aren’t worried. Most people are vaccinated and the vulnerable have ample protections. End oppressive government policies. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post West Posted February 5, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 Sad to see people promoting a caste system in Canada based on pseudoscience just like they did with social darwinism 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, blackbird said: According to this article eliminating mandates and vaccine passports will reduce freedom for the majority. The problem is in the case of health measures, imposing certain restrictions does reduce the freedom for some people who refuse to get vaccinated and removing those restrictions likewise reduces freedoms for other people. For example, mandates are imposed to protect workers and people they deal with from the risk of catching Covid from unvaccinated people. If you remove the mandates, then you increase the chances of people catching Covid in the workplace or spreading Covid to the public by unvaccinated workers. A similar situation exists with the vaccine passports. If you remove the passports some people who are unvaccinated will then start going to restaurants, gyms, movie theatres, etc. and increase the risk to the vaccinated people. Opinion: Ditching vaccine passport reduces freedom for the majority (msn.com) That’s nonsense, but I’m too lazy to tell you why right now. Since you insist on reading propaganda, you deserve the ensuing delusions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) The human body should never be controlled by the state. Period. Edited February 5, 2022 by West 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) I think that vaccines should be mandated for those who can take it which is 99% of population and vaccine passports should be in place till summer time but all restrictions including mandatory wearing of masks should be gradually removed by end of March and we have to learn to live with Covid. More Pfizer treatment pills must be purchased and available for everyone with a prescription. Edited February 5, 2022 by CITIZEN_2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, West said: The human body should never be controlled by the state. Period. I guess that means abortion on demand right? My God!!!!!. Kill the babies even 9 months after pregnancy because that is her body her choice!!!!!!!. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 How do the abortion supporters square this with their main argument? Is it not really my body now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: I guess that means abortion on demand right? My God!!!!!. Kill the babies even 9 months after pregnancy because that is her body her choice!!!!!!!. No, because there is another person there, a vulnerable baby whose rights matter. Stop the false equivalence. The state is mandating vaccines, not abortion. China did coerce women to have abortions and Canada has definitely shifted closer to China ideologically. Edited February 5, 2022 by Zeitgeist 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: No, because there is another person there, a vulnerable baby whose rights matter. Stop the false equivalence. The state is mandating vaccines, not abortion. China did coerce women to have abortions and Canada has definitely shifted closer to China ideologically. Liberals have unfortunately always been about population control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted February 5, 2022 Report Share Posted February 5, 2022 It doesn't remove freedom for the vaccinated, it just increases risk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 33 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: It doesn't remove freedom for the vaccinated, it just increases risk. If our risk tolerances are not the same, how should we resolve that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 4 hours ago, TreeBeard said: If our risk tolerances are not the same, how should we resolve that? Use personal protection. You can decrease individual risk based on individual behavior and PPE. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, TreeBeard said: If our risk tolerances are not the same, how should we resolve that? Get over it? Or not? Why is that anyone's problem? People are free to deal with risk as they please. Edited February 6, 2022 by Moonlight Graham 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: Get over it? Or not? Why is that anyone's problem? People are free to deal with risk as they please. Do you think proclamations are a good way to resolve issues? Couldn’t I just as easily say the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 27 minutes ago, Winston said: Use personal protection. You can decrease individual risk based on individual behavior and PPE. Is it fair to put the burden only on those who are willing to do all they can to be safe? Isn’t this why we mandate car insurance and seatbelts and a host of other things? To “force” people to live in a society together and share the burden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 46 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Is it fair to put the burden only on those who are willing to do all they can to be safe? Individual safety is generally based on individual choice. You can choose to be more safe than others. But in general we do not force others to provide safety for the individual. The easiest method is the method already implemented, allow the individual to behave in a safe manner up to which the individual deems necessary. 51 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Isn’t this why we mandate car insurance and seatbelts and a host of other things? To “force” people to live in a society together and share the burden? Could you please extrapolate, car insurance and seatbelts share the burden of what exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 Just now, Winston said: Individual safety is generally based on individual choice. Do you think the issue of the virus being easily transmissible makes it a little different than skydiving, or something else that could only harm yourself? Also, individual safety is mandated all the time, isn’t it? Helmets? Seatbelts? Steel toed boots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 minute ago, TreeBeard said: Do you think the issue of the virus being easily transmissible makes it a little different than skydiving, or something else that could only harm yourself? We can agree that the virus is transmissible. I have no idea how one could prove transmission between people? Cold, flu ect could follow suit of such claims. I would also add, an uninfected person has zero ability to transmit the virus. 4 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Also, individual safety is mandated all the time, isn’t it? Helmets? Seatbelts? Steel toed boots? Indeed, but keep in mind each of those safeties mentioned can be removed or "taken off", the vaccine is permanent. A permanent comparison would be more usable in this discussion. Masks? I would also add, what is the safety factor of say seatbelts vs masks or vaccines? Is it comparable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 minute ago, Winston said: We can agree that the virus is transmissible. I have no idea how one could prove transmission between people? Cold, flu ect could follow suit of such claims. I would also add, an uninfected person has zero ability to transmit the virus. Indeed, but keep in mind each of those safeties mentioned can be removed or "taken off", the vaccine is permanent. A permanent comparison would be more usable in this discussion. Masks? I would also add, what is the safety factor of say seatbelts vs masks or vaccines? Is it comparable? Why did you introduce vaccines, when we were discussing PPE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 Just now, TreeBeard said: Why did you introduce vaccines, when we were discussing PPE? The title states " Will eliminating vaccine mandates .." We can just talk about PPE, could you please list what exact PPE should be mandated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 7 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: It doesn't remove freedom for the vaccinated, it just increases risk. The unvaccinated are not a risk to the vaccinated Karens. We need to stop giving room to irrational folks in society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 I don't think eliminating the vaccine mandate would mean mandating that people cannot exercise their own freedom to protect themselves. As far as I know, if anyone wants to wear a mask - triple layered, if you want - you can do so. If you want to get vaccinated, and get boosters every day - you can still do so. I don't think we are going to be forced to enter crowded buildings, and that public places can no longer limit the capacity they want, if they want to. Heck, you can do whatever you want.................... WITH YOUR OWN BODY! What we can't do is force somebody do something to....................... HIS OWN BODY! Lol, you lefties pro-choice supporters of all people, should know that! ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, TreeBeard said: If our risk tolerances are not the same, how should we resolve that? Lol - you protect yourself! Duh. Like.......you can order online and use pick-up only, among other things! Why should people who don't believe and don't want vaccines in their bodies be the ones to be deprived of their rights......just to make people who don't have any common sense feel "protected?" Anyway..... Did booster shots protect Trudeau? Did vaccines protect his kid from getting it? He is the best poster boy to justify why some people don't believe in vaccines! Edited February 6, 2022 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) I keep saying before all these - those vaccine passports are only gonna make it worse! They won't protect you! What it does is, give you false sense of security thinking that you're safe from getting it, just because you're in a place that allows only people with vaccine passport! Vaccine passports make you let down your guard! Edited February 6, 2022 by betsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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