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What are the options to remove Justin Trudeau?


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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Except that's not even remotely true.  Inflation is one cause among many that leads to rising prices.  

Interesting that you say that, considering you just told us that your skyrocketing supply costs are an indication of hyperinflation in Canada.  ?  Interestingly my grocery bill has not risen in kind.  Hmm what's going on???

I really don't think you want to have an economics discussion here.  Judging by what you're writing here, it won't go well for you.  

Ummm...if I may. I sense canuck knows exactly what he's talking about and that you might do well to just drop it here before you make a complete fool of yourself.

I also sense that canuck runs a business and helps drive the economy. What do you drive?

A Prius?

Edited by Nationalist
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11 minutes ago, Nexii said:

I think the knives will be out inside the Liberal and NDP caucuses now. They'll be too low in popularity to call an election soon but I can't see them just waiting to be wiped out Kim Campbell style.

Oh the mess the Libbies have created for themselves politically and for us to clean up.

Why the hell are we constantly having to clean up after these dolts?

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3 hours ago, cannuck said:

You have that exactly backwards.  Inflation is the measure and result of rising prices - as is increase in money supply (much of that due to speculative gain that inflates the money supply without creating any wealth).  It is a fairly complex subject, I will admit.

No, I don't have it backwards.  Inflation is macro-level measurement of overall economy-wide purchasing power of the dollar.  Your industry-specific supply costs could be affected by any number of factors that have nothing to do with that.  While you're increasing supply costs are a factor in CAD inflation measurements, they could also be offset by decreasing costs elsewhere in the economy.  

This is why we use the basket of goods you maligned earlier.  It's not perfect and it does exclude volatile costs like resources and agriculture.  If we're trying to measure the overall purchasing power of the dollar, however, commodity prices that regularly swing in price 50% year-over-year are not very useful.  That's the whole point of the inflation indexes after all - providing useful, actionable information for policy and decision makers.

All of this, of course, goes back to your claims about hyperinflation, which has become a popular term to throw around but mostly by people with poor understandings of how the money supply works and/or those plugging conspiracy theories and crypto currencies.  Considering the central banks' quantitative easing only ended recently and that tightening has barely begun, it's awfully premature to press the panic button.  As a business owner you surely know how rising interest rates affect consumption and demand (and thus prices), right?  We can't ignore how many tools the central banks have to combat inflation, but people who don't know any better just sort of figure this is how the supply works:  

 

871957448_moneyprintergobrrrr.thumb.png.d621cdf9a9cc084188b8dd8fc6f04ac6.png

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3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Ummm...if I may. I sense canuck knows exactly what he's talking about and that you might do well to just drop it here before you make a complete fool of yourself.

I also sense that canuck runs a business and helps drive the economy. What do you drive?

A Prius?

Your "senses" and their "reliability" are at least consistent.  Not only am I self-employed and run my own business, but this type of discussion is my trade.  This was my education and this is what I've spent the last 15 years researching, discussing and planning around.   If anything, I'm oversimplifying, but responses like yours make me wonder if I need to dumb it down way more.  

What do I drive???  Wow...

You drive Lambo bro?  ?

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5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Your "senses" and their "reliability" are at least consistent.  Not only am I self-employed and run my own business, but this type of discussion is my trade.  This was my education and this is what I've spent the last 15 years researching, discussing and planning around.   If anything, I'm oversimplifying, but responses like yours make me wonder if I need to dumb it down way more.  

What do I drive???  Wow...

You drive Lambo bro?  ?

Lol...naw. I have 3 kids who are in their early 20s. Had to buy each a car and a house. They got Volkswagens so I got a Chevy SUV. I'd never buy a Lamborghini anyway. I'm older than you (I'd wager) and prefer muscle cars. But my knees disagree.

I've never seen prices rise so fast. But that's what happens when unqualified people gain power, panic and senselessly shut down most small businesses while putting the population on welfare.

So your business is the economy eh? Hmmm. I remember reading that you miscalculated cost increase. But you only missed the mark by a measly 50% so...

I guess our economy is safe in your learned hands...

NOTE: Sorry Charlie. I had to respond. I'll play nice now.. 

Edited by Nationalist
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1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Trudeau supporter.

?. I had a choice between reporting your post for sheer stupidity and laughing.

If you're allowed to say I'm a trader supporter, which I have repeatedly explained is not true, that I'm allowed to say not only are you a Hitler supporter but you have a Hitler blow up doll in your Prius.

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7 hours ago, Moonbox said:

As a business owner you surely know how rising interest rates affect consumption and demand (and thus prices), right?  We can't ignore how many tools the central banks have to combat inflation, but people who don't know any better just sort of figure this is how the supply works:  

There are two things that you don't appreciate in your analysis of the situation:  The ability to buy the basket of consumer goods is a factor of how much money consumers have.   Since all of the government money flowing into  Western economies is factored into the collective consumer buying, we are seeing things such as luxury goods (price out aircraft engines, high performance car parts, large marine equipment and craft) are through the roof because of all of the cash thrown into our economies.  Waiting lists for many of these things are in the months to YEARS - telling you how much cash is awash.  That very much artificially depresses the price of consumer goods in "the basket" - hiding the inflation that has actually occurred within the economy as a whole.   As a result, wages have NOT kept pace with other costs of doing business (again, look at the luxury goods and remember those are not from wage earners, but those taking a free ride on Wall/Bay Street "investments").   The second factor that is distorting "normal" market forces is indeed interest rates.   These are set whilly nilly by governments - government who are ALL going so far in debt having discovered that they can throw trillions around in their term to try to look like re-electable heroes while passing the bill on to our children and grandchildren.  They would all be insolvent overnight if interest rates were set back somewhere near "normal".   BTW:  did you happen to notice that banks still charge pretty much the same interest rates on credit card debt? (they would have been subject to criminal usurey charges in more sane times).

The economies of the Western world (and many others) are in really deep doo-doo, and while I admit, 100% over a year (what I experience...DAILY) is still not "hyperinflation" by some terms, but it is sure as hell not "normal", healthy or sustainable and will lead eventually to massive levels of consumer goods inflation (BTW: buy any meat lately???)

871957448_moneyprintergobrrrr.thumb.png.d621cdf9a9cc084188b8dd8fc6f04ac6.png

 

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1 hour ago, cannuck said:

There are two things that you don't appreciate in your analysis of the situation:  The ability to buy the basket of consumer goods is a factor of how much money consumers have.   Since all of the government money flowing into  Western economies is factored into the collective consumer buying, we are seeing things such as luxury goods (price out aircraft engines, high performance car parts, large marine equipment and craft) are through the roof because of all of the cash thrown into our economies.

No offense intended, but your portrayal of the money supply and how it affects the economy is simplistic and lacking.  Your argument here is not uncommon, but it's misguided.  How much money the government "prints" (which itself is an oversimplified concept) is only one part and arguably not even the most important part of the money supply equation.  You have to look at other aggregated measurements (M1, M2 and M3 etc)- most importantly how quickly money circulates through the economy.  Each dollar doesn't only get spent once, so the money supply is not just the sum of all the $'s in circulation, but also the product of how many times it gets spent and re-spent each year.  Interest rates, lending practices, capital requirements and a whole host of other factors affect this, and the central banks exert a lot of control over it. 

As far as luxury goods go, the supply chain bottlenecks with computer components and semi-conductors are well-documented and such things account for a lot of the cost pressure.  Demand and manufacturing fell through the floor through 2020 and into 2021, and the supply chain is far less flexible than consumer demand.  If you shut your plant down or reduced production for a year, you know you can't just snap your fingers and go back to full capacity immediately, and even if you could, that doesn't mean all your suppliers can.  Some of them might be out of business altogether, or may have shifted their production to other markets.  To be clear, these supply chain problems do represent inflationary pressure on the economy, but they are transitory in nature and need to be distinguished from other factors like the expanded money supply. 

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

The economies of the Western world (and many others) are in really deep doo-doo, and while I admit, 100% over a year (what I experience...DAILY) is still not "hyperinflation" by some terms, but it is sure as hell not "normal", healthy or sustainable and will lead eventually to massive levels of consumer goods inflation (BTW: buy any meat lately???)

Western economies no doubt face challenges, and inflation is one of them.  Hyper-inflation, on the other hand, is bogeyman and won't play out.  It'll be 5+ years before we see the true impact of COVID-19 quantitative easing so I won't be able to say "I told you so" until then, but your doomsaying is misguided. 

As far as meat goes, sure.  I've noticed it's more expensive.  I know better than to say it's because of monetary policy, however, considering 2021 was terrible for drought and cattle feed costs skyrocketed as a result.  It's unfortunate that maybe I don't buy my prime-rib as often at ~$44/kg or whatever it was last time I cooked it, but I'm hardly blaming the central banks for lower Mid-west rainfall.  

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5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

It's unfortunate that maybe I don't buy my prime-rib as often at ~$44/kg or whatever it was last time I cooked it, but I'm hardly blaming the central banks for lower Mid-west rainfall.  

A round roast can be a beautiful thing - preheat oven to 500, rub roast with spices, put in oven uncovered with no water, turn heat down to 475 for 7 minutes per lb, turn the oven off for 2 - 2.5 hours (DO NOT open the door). Slice thin, stack deep. I'm pretty sure it even takes less electricity. ? 

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5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

No offense intended, but your portrayal of the money supply and how it affects the economy is simplistic and lacking.  Your argument here is not uncommon, but it's misguided.  How much money the government "prints" (which itself is an oversimplified concept) is only one part and arguably not even the most important part of the money supply equation.  You have to look at other aggregated measurements (M1, M2 and M3 etc)- most importantly how quickly money circulates through the economy.  Each dollar doesn't only get spent once, so the money supply is not just the sum of all the $'s in circulation, but also the product of how many times it gets spent and re-spent each year.  Interest rates, lending practices, capital requirements and a whole host of other factors affect this, and the central banks exert a lot of control over it. 

As far as luxury goods go, the supply chain bottlenecks with computer components and semi-conductors are well-documented and such things account for a lot of the cost pressure.  Demand and manufacturing fell through the floor through 2020 and into 2021, and the supply chain is far less flexible than consumer demand.  If you shut your plant down or reduced production for a year, you know you can't just snap your fingers and go back to full capacity immediately, and even if you could, that doesn't mean all your suppliers can.  Some of them might be out of business altogether, or may have shifted their production to other markets.  To be clear, these supply chain problems do represent inflationary pressure on the economy, but they are transitory in nature and need to be distinguished from other factors like the expanded money supply. 

Western economies no doubt face challenges, and inflation is one of them.  Hyper-inflation, on the other hand, is bogeyman and won't play out.  It'll be 5+ years before we see the true impact of COVID-19 quantitative easing so I won't be able to say "I told you so" until then, but your doomsaying is misguided. 

As far as meat goes, sure.  I've noticed it's more expensive.  I know better than to say it's because of monetary policy, however, considering 2021 was terrible for drought and cattle feed costs skyrocketed as a result.  It's unfortunate that maybe I don't buy my prime-rib as often at ~$44/kg or whatever it was last time I cooked it, but I'm hardly blaming the central banks for lower Mid-west rainfall.  

Yes governments have cute terms like monetization which really is just printing money to pay debt.  Governments love inflation secretly because it allows their massive debts to be easier down the road with inflation.  I wish we could go to an honest monetary system whereby dollars are backed by something. No lending out of money that isn't backed 100%.  Like the Venetians did in early banking. ALL the gold had to be in their banks.

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3 hours ago, Faramir said:

Yes governments have cute terms like monetization which really is just printing money to pay debt.

Monetization isn't really the word your looking for, and "just printing money" isn't how it works.  You don't know anything about this, nor do most people, so that's okay.   

3 hours ago, Faramir said:

Governments love inflation secretly because it allows their massive debts to be easier down the road with inflation.  I wish we could go to an honest monetary system whereby dollars are backed by something.

Here's the problem with that system:  If you have a pegged dollar (say the gold standard) and gold mining can't keep up with economic growth, you end up with a currency that's worth more and more each year and then people hoard it instead of spending it, which grinds the economy down.  There's a reason nobody really does this anymore.  

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On 2/5/2022 at 11:54 AM, Nefarious Banana said:

To the title of this thread . . . . maybe Justin Trudeau will  walk into a snowbank like his step-dad  did. One can only hope.

 

Or go hiking in the Rockies - maybe an avalanche will fall on him , like it did on his brother.

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20 hours ago, Moonbox said:

All of this, of course, goes back to your claims about hyperinflation, which has become a popular term to throw around but mostly by people with poor understandings of how the money supply works and/or those plugging conspiracy theories and crypto currencies.  Considering the central banks' quantitative easing only ended recently and that tightening has barely begun, it's awfully premature to press the panic button.  As a business owner you surely know how rising interest rates affect consumption and demand (and thus prices), right?  We can't ignore how many tools the central banks have to combat inflation, but people who don't know any better just sort of figure this is how the supply works:  

 

871957448_moneyprintergobrrrr.thumb.png.d621cdf9a9cc084188b8dd8fc6f04ac6.png

I was just looking for a knowledgeable guy like you.   So you tell me that the passive forms of income are no reason for inflation?

For example I am giving you $1 trillion and I want you to pay me a 10% annual interest rate.    The price of gold was about the same in the beginning of the year and it is the same at the end of the year.  All of a sudden I ended up with 10% more gold (a material asset) ; could be land ; could be anything else material.

For how long do you think this 10% increase of your assets can continue before the Earth collapses ?

You might want to check my "Money" thread under Business and Economy too.

 

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20 hours ago, Moonbox said:

No offense intended, but your portrayal of the money supply and how it affects the economy is simplistic and lacking.  Your argument here is not uncommon, but it's misguided.  How much money the government "prints" (which itself is an oversimplified concept) is only one part and arguably not even the most important part of the money supply equation.  You have to look at other aggregated measurements (M1, M2 and M3 etc)- most importantly how quickly money circulates through the economy.  Each dollar doesn't only get spent once, so the money supply is not just the sum of all the $'s in circulation, but also the product of how many times it gets spent and re-spent each year.  Interest rates, lending practices, capital requirements and a whole host of other factors affect this, and the central banks exert a lot of control over it. 

Quite aware of monetary theory, but in reality I find that most of what is now taught in economics is what has been adapted to try to legitimized the return of an economy that worships speculation - that is nothing but wealth re-distribution and generation of unbelievably large inflationary pressure.   If economics and monetary theory and policy actually worked FOR the country(ies) rather than its financial community we wouldn't be in the big mess we are in (i.e. having de-funded Main Street) and the much bigger mess when the world stops allowing the Greenback to be propped up.   Sorry can't engage meaningfully right now - in the middle of year end.

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1 hour ago, cannuck said:

Quite aware of monetary theory, but in reality I find that most of what is now taught in economics is what has been adapted to try to legitimized the return of an economy that worships speculation - that is nothing but wealth re-distribution and generation of unbelievably large inflationary pressure. 

You may be aware of it, but if you're still talking about hyperinflation and/or the government "printing money" as proof, then you don't really understand it.  That's fine, because very few people do and that's why we come up with simple and trivial explanations for it.  

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

If economics and monetary theory and policy actually worked FOR the country(ies) rather than its financial community we wouldn't be in the big mess we are in (i.e. having de-funded Main Street) and the much bigger mess when the world stops allowing the Greenback to be propped up.   Sorry can't engage meaningfully right now - in the middle of year end.

I suspect much of your grievances against central banks has more to do with public/fiscal policy than anything.  Distinguishing between central banking action and government policy is not always easy.  

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4 hours ago, cannuck said:

Quite aware of monetary theory, but in reality I find that most of what is now taught in economics is what has been adapted to try to legitimized the return of an economy that worships speculation - that is nothing but wealth re-distribution and generation of unbelievably large inflationary pressure.   If economics and monetary theory and policy actually worked FOR the country(ies) rather than its financial community we wouldn't be in the big mess we are in (i.e. having de-funded Main Street) and the much bigger mess when the world stops allowing the Greenback to be propped up.   Sorry can't engage meaningfully right now - in the middle of year end.

Well you bring up a good point. An economy where all the money is made in investment banking does no good for the nation at all.  GDP growth has to come from creating something and investment bankers create nothing.  For example if I speculated on BitCoin and made 1 million dollars, I did well, but it did nothing to grow the economy itself. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/24/2022 at 4:35 PM, ironstone said:

I wish I could be more optimistic about getting rid of Trudeau but I'm not. Even with a dismal record he still wins a minority and nothing sticks to the guy. The Liberals are going full on socialist and woke and not enough people seem to care.

As long as the MSM in this country keeps telling the useful idiots that JT is God-like, his dismal record and hate mongering don't matter. 

Probably our best chance for flushing the turd is if for some reason Jagmeet Singh gets the notion that he can expand his party's power in a quick election. 

I can't really see how that would come to pass though, Jagmeet is just Trudeau-lite. They're both in lock-step all the time and the media would never pimp Singh ahead of their golden child. 

Maybe one more scandal will do it, but it has to involve a woman, or women. Merely killing off thousands of care home residents isn't enough to deter leftist voters, JT needs to be accused of grabbing some asses. 

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