Is anybody listening?

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

What is your source for the 1000 fatalities?

The H2H came out when the virus was just appearing in China and there was based on scant information. The source of Covid 19 has never been determined.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1257040/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-vaccination-status/

The are 2,490 fully-vaxed deaths in Canada now. That number was 981 in the middle of December [*before Christmas, but I'm not sure what exact day and it doesn't get updated every day anyways], I took a screenshot of it because sometimes sites with information like that get kiboshed. It was 2,032 on Monday. It's actually going up quite fast.

832 unvaxed deaths, 1,509 fully vaxed deaths since about Dec 14th.

 

*The file I have says it was from "Dec 30" but I'm pretty sure it was from about the 14th-18th, somewhere in there. I might have renamed it on that day so that I could find it easier. It was just sitting on my desktop with a generic name for a while. 

 

[myata]

Maybe going deep into what they are doing is not much helpful in answering the essential question: are mandates justified? Vaccines can be of help to many, no question. But are broad mandates, outside of very specific environments and professions a) justified and b) imposed in a due process? The second one is a clear no. There's no process for as much as anyone can tell. Someone in the back room jumps waves hands and that has to be the process.

For the a), we need further answers:

- Are they proportional to the problem? (we did not have mandates against flu and similar): no

- Are they sufficiently effective in preventing the spread? (this relates to protection of others, rather than individual choice): not after a short period.

- Are they necessary? (the only way to achieve the desired effect): no. There are jurisdictions, many of them that never had mandates.

- Is there a clear process that allows to evaluate solutions by these criteria objectively and transparently: none (in two years and counting).

Conclusion: mandates are not justified and were not imposed in a due process, objective and transparent to the society. This is an overreach and an arbitrary application of authority. Someone has to answer for this. Checks have to be designed and placed into the system to prevent from this happening again.

[jbg]

On 1/26/2022 at 10:00 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

In the last few years, we have witnessed a delamination of civil order. From the election of President Trump to the growth of populist politicians in Eastern Europe, from the January 6th events in Washington DC to the current truck convoy in Canada, vaccine resistance and climate skeptics. These are all symptoms of a deeper problem. A segment of the world's population are angry and they feel no one is listening. My question is what is the real source ot this anger. I don't know, but if we are to reverse the trend of unfocused anger and mistrust, we need to find out what it is.

Any suggestions? 

The movie and then the Broadway show Network featured the line "I'm mad as h**l and I'm not going to take it any more. I think people are tired of lockdowns and restrictions.

I don't know if anyone has made this parallel, but there on May 23, 2020 there were riots in Lansing, Michigan. Maybe this is just coincidence but that was when the dam broke and phased reopenings of life were announced for many "blue" states (I know in Canada "blue" is color-coded to Conservative). I do not expect the Ottawa government to visibly cave, but I predict the restrictions will rapidly fall. People have a limited tolerance for boring, depressing life in a bubble.

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, myata said:

Conclusion: mandates are not justified and were not imposed in a due process, objective and transparent to the society. This is an overreach and an arbitrary application of authority. Someone has to answer for this. Checks have to be designed and placed into the system to prevent from this happening again.

Great post. 

I for one feel like the question of whether or not the mandates and passports are justified begins and ends with 4 questions, but I added the 5th because the vax-Nazis have moved their goalposts back as far as they possibly can and they really need one in there that they can lean on: 

1) Do they stop the spread? [no]

2) Do they stop people from dying? [no]

3) Are there any known, serious side effects? [yes]

4) Do we have any clue whether or not there will be any long-term side effects? [no]

5) Will our hospitals be overwhelmed by the unvaxed? [no]

I like the new wrinkle that you added there: "Are they proportional to the problem?" That's a great standard that applied to most reactionary measures. 

TBH if the vaccines were (mysteriously) ready when covid first came out, and it was still said to be a "97-HEADED MONSTER THAT KILLS EVERYTHING IN ITS PATH!", I might have been convinced that they were proportional to the problem. Now that we know that the vast majority of the population is at an extremely low risk of death, and we have the vaccines "that work" for the at-risk groups, it's way out of proportion to the problem. 

The vax-Nazis will fight tooth and nail for #5 because it's all they've got: "It keeps our hospitals from overflowing! This is a pandemic of the unjabbed!", so I'll speak to that....

Everyone is getting omicron whether they're jabbed, dbl jabbed, dbl jabbed & boosted, or unvaxxed. Over 1,500 fully-protected Canadians have died of covid since mid-December, so the "pandemic of the unvaxed" claim is a lie now. There's no justification [eww] left for mandates and passports, at least not domestically, or for people like truckers who are socially distanced when they travel. 

 

Side note: I really loathe the word 'justification'. It seems like it's always associated with the worst evils in the history of the human race. People like Hitler, Chairman Mao, terrorist leaders and psychopaths 'justify' things. 

[myata]

6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The vax-Nazis will fight tooth and nail for #5 because it's all they've got: "It keeps our hospitals from overflowing! This is a pandemic of the unjabbed!", so I'll speak to that....

That is like making citizens (all of them) push buses when transit system went bankrupt (while paying outrageous compensations to the management). Not an argument, never lied close to one and will never be. People are paid (outrageously) to run these systems. All questions go to them, 1 - 2. Just f@#$k off now and never appear with this pathetic nonsense again.

[WestCanMan]

21 minutes ago, myata said:

That is like making citizens (all of them) push buses when transit system went bankrupt 

It certainly ignores the fact that we are going to be royally screwed if there are any common, meaningful long-term side effects of the jab. 

If it just increases the risk of stroke or heart attack by 20%, or causes a specific type of cancer, if it affects fertility rates among men or women, if it causes miscarriages or birth defects.... Oh look, the hospitals are overwhelmed! The medicare system can't afford it!

And antibody dependent enhancement is a real thing. If the antibodies created by the jab make some other disease like Dengue, malaria, zeka or something else worse we could also screwed.

Or China can manufacture a virus that is made worse by the antibodies created by the jabs. 

I don't think that getting everyone jabbed is the way to go. 

 

They say that the whole Royal family never travels together on a single airplane. Not because they're worried about more inbreeding, but because they can't have them all go down at once. It seems like if everyone gets the jab, our whole country is on one gigantic airplane. 

[Queenmandy85]

8 hours ago, jbg said:

The movie and then the Broadway show Network featured the line "I'm mad as h**l and I'm not going to take it any more. I think people are tired of lockdowns and restrictions.

I don't know if anyone has made this parallel, but there on May 23, 2020 there were riots in Lansing, Michigan. Maybe this is just coincidence but that was when the dam broke and phased reopenings of life were announced for many "blue" states (I know in Canada "blue" is color-coded to Conservative). I do not expect the Ottawa government to visibly cave, but I predict the restrictions will rapidly fall. People have a limited tolerance for boring, depressing life in a bubble.

The scary thing about this is how are we going to get people to make the changes needed to slow and reverse global warming. If we can't get people to stay home, wash their hands, socially distance etc., for three or four years, how are we going to get people to make the sacrifices needed to slow global warming over the next three or four centuries?

Or are we just going to toss our great grand children on the barbie?

[blackbird]

On 1/26/2022 at 7:00 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

In the last few years, we have witnessed a delamination of civil order. From the election of President Trump to the growth of populist politicians in Eastern Europe, from the January 6th events in Washington DC to the current truck convoy in Canada, vaccine resistance and climate skeptics. These are all symptoms of a deeper problem. A segment of the world's population are angry and they feel no one is listening. My question is what is the real source ot this anger. I don't know, but if we are to reverse the trend of unfocused anger and mistrust, we need to find out what it is.

Any suggestions? 

You raise a very good point.  I am listening and I agree with you.  

The cause of the anger in the world may be a spiritual or Biblical one.  That is, it may be a result of the fall of man or separation from God.  We are all born with a sinful, corrupt nature according to what the Bible teaches.  That may be at the root of the problem.  Many bible believers and prophecy experts say we are in the last days.  This anger in the world may be a sign that we are in the last days.  When I say last days, I mean we may be in the days before Jesus Christ returns.  The Bible speaks about very troubled times in the latter days.  

"1  This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, {false…: or, one who foments strife} 4  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; "  2 Timothy 3:1 KJV     If what this passage says is true in the times we are living in, that would explain the anger in the world.  Certainly anger would go with these faults.

Having stated the negative, the positive should be stated.   It should also be mentioned there is still hope for those who believe in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.  There is a bright future of joy and happiness.

Edited February 13, 2022 by blackbird

[jbg]

20 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The scary thing about this is how are we going to get people to make the changes needed to slow and reverse global warming. If we can't get people to stay home, wash their hands, socially distance etc., for three or four years, how are we going to get people to make the sacrifices needed to slow global warming over the next three or four centuries?

Or are we just going to toss our great grand children on the barbie?

The really scary thing is that people are willing to impose restrictions on others that they won't obey. Man is a social animal. Man also aspires to a better way of life. You cannot, simply put, force people to make sacrifices unless absolutely necessary. And not for hypothetical problems.

In the case of Covid, when the leaders were gallivanting around without fear, they were showing that the "rules were for thee, and not for me." Ditto, with private plane travel to global warming confabs.