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Knowing history is important to understanding the world today...which is why it isn't taught...lol.

For example...your last post...Palestine was Judaea Samaria while historical Jesus lived. It was change by the Romans (Hadrian) to Syria Palaestina at the end of the Jewish-Roman Wars...well after the J-man's death. A sort of punishment after Hadrian expelled them from their homes. The Romans were like that...

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13 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

What has caused the dreams of the 1960s for a peaceful world community to sour? The idea behind the global village was to end the threat of war. What is happening to Shiller's "Alle Menschen werden Brüder." All men become brothers.

A good deal of it can probably be pinned on the military industrial complex. Then there's market globalism and economic hegemony fuelled by delusions of exceptionalism and manifest destiny punctuated with brandy fumes and cigar smoke.

All in-camera of course. 

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6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Free trade has provided enormous benefits but those who have lost out are being told that the system overall doesn't work.  In practice, the losers were always supposed to lose - just not this big.  And the same system that had them lose also cut out social supports and benefits - surprise !  

The problem with free-trade is that the benefits haven't been distributed equally, as you sort of touch on.  The middle class has been shrinking steadily for a long time and the economic benefits of free trade have been heavily slanted towards the very-rich.  Those with poor educations are the ones who've taken that hit the hardest and so it's not much of a stretch to see how distrustful they become of science/academia in general, especially with how zealously they get shouted down when they voice their complaints (reasonable or not).  

The contradiction here is that a lot of the folks glorifying the closing of borders and tariffs etc are also the same ones who emphatically opposed the the one-percenters and anti-WTO rallies as "pinko-lefties" etc.  

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2 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

1. The problem with free-trade is that the benefits haven't been distributed equally, as you sort of touch on. 

2. The middle class has been shrinking steadily for a long time and the economic benefits of free trade have been heavily slanted towards the very-rich. 

3. Those with poor educations are the ones who've taken that hit the hardest and so it's not much of a stretch to see how distrustful they become of science/academia in general, especially with how zealously they get shouted down when they voice their complaints (reasonable or not).  

4. The contradiction here is that a lot of the folks glorifying the closing of borders and tariffs etc are also the same ones who emphatically opposed the the one-percenters and anti-WTO rallies as "pinko-lefties" etc.  

1. Well they were never going to be distributed equally - for lots of reasons, some ideological and some practical.  

2. Free Trade isn't the reason for that IMO, the reason is that political ideology has rejected burdening the investor class with the petty problems of public welfare.  The benefits of technology, legislation and lots of other things are weighed towards the rich and those countries that are more egalitarian also benefit from Free Trade in a more equitable way.

3. Not poor education exclusively.  If your work can't be imported or offshored you will do better.  So ... sales people, artisans, Yoga Instructors, home renovators ... they can do a lot better.  IT professionals like me have been slammed... same with manufacturing workers.  It is also NOT clear to me that the populists are made up of the people you describe.  I think a lot of them are small entrepreneurs who are ideologically opposed to the traditional behaviours of big government.

4.  It's an identity thing though.  I read a lot of populist types that are against big corporations for kowtowing to woke messaging, for big tech's control of messaging etc.


To be honest, I think that a lot of these problems will pass when the generation that grew up without the internet moves on.  The younger 'educated' folks I suspect be a lot less ... liberal ... in their acceptance of differing views, and will likely expect more services (and free money) from government too.

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Maybe we are near the point where the complexity of problems we create is beyond the level of intelligence and scope of interest of an average individual? Problems and conflicts in the past were simple from that perspective: which God to worship; take more or yield less; I want to take this no you can't. Simple, understandable definite problems. Cost could be high but the solution, easy.

How do we define the problem of equitable society beyond the level of minimal handout? Sustainable existence and coexistence, in the long term? A reliable balance with the environment? Peaceful nature with standing up and controlling bullies if and when they arise? What fraction of the society would want to spend a day in a year on any of these issues? And yet, can we pretend that they don't exist and one day would just fix themselves and disappear?

If this is the case then democracy as we know it, would not be able to help us. We were promised and promising something new and shining but in reality came back to the same, old "bread and circuses".

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7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

To be honest, I think that a lot of these problems will pass when the generation that grew up without the internet moves on.  The younger 'educated' folks I suspect be a lot less ... liberal ... in their acceptance of differing views, and will likely expect more services (and free money) from government too.

Mostly agree with what you're saying, though I'm not sure with this last part.  Though there are no doubt a lot of angry dinosaurs complaining about free trade and computerized services (folks just don't do business like they used to, y'know?), I think there are a lot of millennials and zoomers diving deep down the rabbit-hole, so to speak.  The internet has done a lot to give these sorts a forum to rant and rave at each other (lefties and righties alike) and they can basically get their social requirements from identical minds without ever having to leave their house. 

I do some crypto trading just for fun and the community lives on discord and telegram and a lot of it feels like the dark weeb.  

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22 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

1.  Though there are no doubt a lot of angry dinosaurs complaining about free trade and computerized services (folks just don't do business like they used to, y'know?), I think there are a lot of millennials and zoomers diving deep down the rabbit-hole, so to speak.  

1. Maybe but ... things tilt towards what younger people want over time ... gay marriage flipped pretty fast once a few of the older boomers died out.  If you think corporations are bad at assessing that, I'd like to know why.

They flushed Don Cherry pretty quickly... it's the fashion.  

Then again Spotify picked Joe Rogan over Neil Young pretty quickly... so we may be in for a new generation of reactionaries on both sides...

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On 1/26/2022 at 10:00 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

Any suggestions? 

As history shows when ruling elites detach themselves from the reality and begin living in own separate world, there may not be easy solutions. I would begin with rethinking and remaking the democracy for this age and century. No, it's not going to be easy, possible is a big question.

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6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Causes:

1.  Major demographic (racial, cultural) shifts in the west leading to many trying to destroy the old white hegemony in our politics and culture.

2. People generally tired of the neoliberal economic squeeze.

3. Social media giving a voice to new people.

1. Destroy or also ignore and let die... there seem to be more stories of old dudes getting bounced that aren't getting any play because... well, nobody cares
2. Very true - but without wisdom the options are too numerous and too scary
3. Like truckers, yes

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Very often it's difficult to tell why a relationship did not work out. Who is to blame? Could anything have been done to save it? Maybe it's the same way with societies. Sometimes they work, and then stop working. And that's when you get discontent, pent up frustration and so on, waiting for a trigger. It's been quite clear and for a while now (decades) that the fragment of the society for which Canada still works has been shrinking persistently and alarmingly. It was someone's job somewhere to notice such trends discuss and find working solutions. But they are not really interested. It's working for them as it is. They are interested in something else, like political games, imposing their benevolence and enlightenment on the society including by coercion and force. So, nobody is listening. You are not interested and involved in my problems. But you expect me to be excited about your promises and agendas. Maybe not.

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4 minutes ago, myata said:

1. It's been quite clear and for a while now (decades) that the fragment of the society for which Canada still works has been shrinking persistently and alarmingly.

 

1. Is it clear ?  Maybe it is, but the complaints are very tough to understand and in many cases they are amplified by paid agents.

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On 1/26/2022 at 7:00 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

In the last few years, we have witnessed a delamination of civil order. From the election of President Trump to the growth of populist politicians in Eastern Europe, from the January 6th events in Washington DC to the current truck convoy in Canada, vaccine resistance and climate skeptics. These are all symptoms of a deeper problem. A segment of the world's population are angry and they feel no one is listening. My question is what is the real source ot this anger. I don't know, but if we are to reverse the trend of unfocused anger and mistrust, we need to find out what it is.

Any suggestions? 

I suggest ignoring America and focusing on what Canadians can change in Canada.  

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Is it clear ?  Maybe it is, but the complaints are very tough to understand and in many cases they are amplified by paid agents.

What is not clear about median income in two decades barely moved while that of MPs and similar more than doubled? At the same time most prices went nuts. How could this simple math not be clear? Or rather, to who? Let them have the brioches?

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3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

I suggest ignoring America and focusing on what Canadians can change in Canada.  

Change takes leadership, something we don't have.

Quebec seems to be leading the change battle some in good ways some in bad...anyways we don't have leadership,

Before the pandemic provincial premiers wanted more funding for health care, pandemic strike and makes that as clear as a bell with red lights flashing... at yet it was not even an election issue...change in this country means little social projects like day care for a segment of the population that makes under 36 K a year...my taxi driver makes more than that... Canada has yet to handle any real serious issues in the last 8 to 10 years, with the exception of the pandemic, which we just bought our way out of...

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On 2/7/2022 at 6:53 PM, Army Guy said:

Canada has yet to handle any real serious issues in the last 8 to 10 years, with the exception of the pandemic, which we just bought our way out of...

Unfortunately I agree with you.  I'd argue the Trudeau government has done basically nothing of substance since taking power and has been a complete waste of time.  Unfortunately the folks who've run against him have all been useless twits who've pandered way too hard towards the party's most rabid base, and their politics are what continue to make the CPC lose elections.  Stephen Harper had the balls to shut them down and keep their politics out of his government, but his successors have been cowards.  Far-right Alberta style politics won't win federal elections.  Period.  

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50 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Unfortunately I agree with you.  I'd argue the Trudeau government has done basically nothing of substance since taking power and has been a complete waste of time.  Unfortunately the folks who've run against him have all been useless twits who've pandered way too hard towards the party's most rabid base, and their politics are what continue to make the CPC lose elections.  Stephen Harper had the balls to shut them down and keep their politics out of his government, but his successors have been cowards.  Far-right Alberta style politics won't win federal elections.  Period.  

Yea 100%. There is no fiscal conservative or libertarian-leaning party right now. Why would I vote CPC when they're also for big government only with a flavor of social prejudice? And I'm not a fan of Trudeau at all either. He uses minorities as a tool to seem virtuous while really doing nothing of substance to help anyone.

But hey at least Canadians didn't elect a majority government, cause none of them deserve it.

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On 1/26/2022 at 7:00 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

In the last few years, we have witnessed a delamination of civil order. From the election of President Trump to the growth of populist politicians in Eastern Europe, from the January 6th events in Washington DC to the current truck convoy in Canada, vaccine resistance and climate skeptics. These are all symptoms of a deeper problem. A segment of the world's population are angry and they feel no one is listening. My question is what is the real source ot this anger. I don't know, but if we are to reverse the trend of unfocused anger and mistrust, we need to find out what it is.

Any suggestions? 

Haven’t crackpots always been around?  

They just have a louder voice now and are more organized due to the internet.

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On 1/26/2022 at 7:00 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

Any suggestions? 

Get your head out of your ass? Honestly, that.

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In the last few years, we have witnessed a delamination of civil order.

Absolutely. Members of the federal gov'ts in Canada and the US pushed false narratives about black people killed by police in the US, and then supported rioting, arson, looting, and assaults & murders. The Dems went on to let rioters out of jail, bail them out, and the push the idea of defunding police. The MSM was party to it all.

If you don't believe me, then let's have a discussion about whether or not Michael Brown was a gentle giant, or Brionna Taylor was "killed for sleeping black."

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From the election of President Trump

Oh grow up ffs, you're retirement age already. 

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to the growth of populist politicians in Eastern Europe, from the January 6th events in Washington DC

Did ya skip something that lasted 4 years, cost the US billions of dollars in damages, saw thousands of cops get injured? Talk about ignoring the elephant in the room. Your OP was worthless.

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to the current truck convoy in Canada,

Care to explain what this has to do with the delamination of civil order? It's a legitimate, lawful protest and it's almost celebratory in nature. 

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vaccine resistance

Over 1,000 fully vaxed people have died in the last 6 weeks. Kids are getting myocarditis from the vax who never got covid. The people who push the vaxes are the same ones who agreed with the WHO when they curiously stated that "H2H isn't happening." They also told us that "ANYONE WHO SAYS THAT THE VIRUS CAME FROM A LAB IS A CONSPIRACY THEORIST AND THEY NEED TO BE SILENCED!!!" That's just the tip of the iceberg. Vax-Nazis are the biggest liars on the planet. Some of them even act like the Jan 6th riot was the only riot in the US in the last ten years.

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These are all symptoms of a deeper problem.

Your post is actually a sign of a deeper problem. You're spouting CNN's debunked false narratives and CTV propaganda like you witnessed it all with your own eyes. You're functionally retarded and I'm not being rude or joking, there's something seriously wrong with anyone who believes what you're saying.

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A segment of the world's population are angry and they feel no one is listening.

A segment of the world's population is witnessing hate speech from the PM of Canada and you're actually defending it. You directly defended it in a post that you replied to me on.

There actually are lots of people listening. Joe Rogan has 11M listeners. CNN has less than 10% of that. Fox News has more than 3M listeners per show. Joe Biden's approval rating has been as low as 33%. 

You're living in a liberal echo chamber, watching CNN and CTV and thinking that it's real. That's fuckin stupid dude. It's right out to lunch. 

You used to be a cop. If someone told you that the Freedom Convoy was a bunch of Nazis would you believe them? Did you believe that the Nazi flag that was on the fence with some kids was part of the convoy? If so. I guess I'm a de-funder. 'Cause that's some massively stupid shite.

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My question is what is the real source ot this anger. I don't know, but if we are to reverse the trend of unfocused anger and mistrust, we need to find out what it is.

Really stupid comments and lies make people angry.

Of course you don't get angry reading my posts, you just wish that you didn't have to have the truth shoved down your throat and you feel less than

 

Do you honestly think that conservatives, Trump supporters, would "be against the vaxes" for no good reason? 

I would have loved it if they worked and they were safe. I hate the lockdowns. I have nothing against Trump. 

By the time Dec 14th rolled around I was aware of the stats: octogenarians were dying, young healthy people were unaffected, and in my demographic only about 0.5% of people were dying. I was happy to wait my turn. Reports of people dying from blood clots in their lungs started coming out, and myocarditis in the healthiest of people. "It's nothing. Everything is perfectly safe. But we won't be giving the Astrazeneca and J&J shots in Canada... for no reason." Then fully-vaxxed people in Israel were ending up in the ICUs in massive numbers. "Delta threw us a curve". IE, it's not really working that well. "There won't be any vax passports in the foreseeable future". "OK, the unforeseeable future is here a few weeks later." After being told that "the vaxes will get s to herd immunity" that was downgraded to "That was never going to be the case".

By taking the vax you OK'd the lies, bullshit, censorship, gaslighting, baseless accusations, cancel cultists who were wrong, and the nazis who did all that while talking straight into the camera.

If you don't understand all that, I feel sorry for you. I can only remind you of what happened, I can't understand it for you. 

Dude, in all honesty, your OP was some sorry-ass bullshit. 

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50 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Haven’t crackpots always been around?  

They just have a louder voice now and are more organized due to the internet.

They are more organized due to CNN and CTV. 

Do you still believe that H2H isn't happening? Do you still believe that "COVID CAME FROM A WETMARKET AND ANYONE WHO SAYS ANYTHING DIFFERENT NEEDS TO BE KICKED OFF OF SOCIAL MEDIA. FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS OVER FOR THEM!"

What's worse? Saying that H2H isn't happening when there are planeloads of people flying out f Wuhan on international flights? FYI, those people were banned from travelling domestically within China. Hmmmm. 

You're on the stupid side of history TreeBeard. Always a step behind, getting sucked in by every lie and always willing to believe the next counter-intuitive peanutty nugget. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 4:47 PM, TreeBeard said:

I suggest ignoring America and focusing on what Canadians can change in Canada.  

I agree 100 %, but Canadians are fixated with America and Americans and what they do, next to hockey it is one of our national sports..

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14 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Members of the federal gov'ts in Canada and the US pushed false narratives about black people killed by police in the US, and then supported rioting, arson, looting, and assaults & murders. The Dems went on to let rioters out of jail, bail them out, and the push the idea of defunding police. The MSM was party to it all.

If you don't believe me, then let's have a discussion about whether or not Michael Brown was a gentle giant, or Brionna Taylor was "killed for sleeping black."

You seem to be blending American events with what is happening in Canada. One of the issues I have is the americanization of Canada. We see it with the number of American flags at the protests and the interference of American politicians in Canada. We really see it with the number of Canadians who prefer to vacation in the US rather than Canada.

This illustrates the problem I was referring to. Nobody cares what I say and nobody is listening to WestCanMan. In order to maintain a civil cohesive society, we, as individuals, need to accept none of us are going to get our way all of the time. There are too many other people who have different needs and priorities that need to be balanced. I want to see our ties to Britain strengthened and WestCanMan and Taxme want what they want. None of the three of us represent the slightest fragment of a percentage of what the bulk of Canadians want. (Well, maybe WestCanMan does)

Prime Minister Trudeau has a flaw. He believes he is right and if someone doesn't recognize that, he doesn't react well to that. My advice to him would have been to set out a dozen comfortable chairs before the initial convoy arrived, and meet them with coffee and snacks, and ask them what they wanted. Stay as long as it takes to  listen to them, talk to them about the limitations on government and the difficulties the pandemic presents to maintaining public health.

It wouldn't end the protest, but it might have led to a more constructive process. By not meeting them immediately as they arrived, it became a confrontation where a meeting later would have become appeasement.

Now, if the protest is percieved to have worked, we are in for a difficult summer. The Wet'suwet'en rail blockades may resume and rather than the proper way to deal with issues in the civil political tradition, protest will be the new device, not just for the many legitamate issues First Nations have, but for crazy wingnuts like me. I can drive my old corolla down to the border crossing at Cascade, BC and block the road and honk my horn and make life hell for every chipmunk, rabbit and deer for 500 metres around, until the government susidizes ski hills in Canada. That'll show'em.

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48 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You seem to be blending American events with what is happening in Canada. One of the issues I have is the americanization of Canada. We see it with the number of American flags at the protests and the interference of American politicians in Canada. We really see it with the number of Canadians who prefer to vacation in the US rather than Canada.

This illustrates the problem I was referring to. Nobody cares what I say and nobody is listening to WestCanMan. In order to maintain a civil cohesive society, we, as individuals, need to accept none of us are going to get our way all of the time. There are too many other people who have different needs and priorities that need to be balanced. I want to see our ties to Britain strengthened and WestCanMan and Taxme want what they want. None of the three of us represent the slightest fragment of a percentage of what the bulk of Canadians want. (Well, maybe WestCanMan does)

That's right, and mandating that people take the jab when they know that they don't need it is an example of forcing them to surrender to your line of thought. 

The people trying to force us to take the jab got caught lying to us way too many times. There's absolutely no denying that.

I'm a firm believer in "fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice - shame on me." I don't need to get lied to 75 times before I stop trusting someone. 

When our government based our covid defence on the WHO's assertion that "H2H transmission isn't happening" I was close to done listening. Do you remember Trudeau telling us in early 2020 that covid wasn't really going to affect Canadians? That didn't age well, did it? But our MSM forgot all about it.

When the gov't, MSM and social media insisted that we parrot the words "tha viris caym frum a wemarkit" and said that we were batshit crazy conspiracy theorists if we talked about the BSL4 lab, I was fuckin DONE. Never to come back. 

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Prime Minister Trudeau has a flaw. He believes he is right and if someone doesn't recognize that, he doesn't react well to that. My advice to him would have been to set out a dozen comfortable chairs before the initial convoy arrived, and meet them with coffee and snacks, and ask them what they wanted. Stay as long as it takes to  listen to them, talk to them about the limitations on government and the difficulties the pandemic presents to maintaining public health.

In all honesty, Trudeau does not have a democrat bone in his body. It's all "my way or the highway" with him. In this instance, the highway came back to bite him in the ass.

He was able to kiss and make up with Khadr, he thought that the BLM protesters were an excellent example of peaceful protesters, but the Freedom Convoy are a bunch of violent racists out desecrating monuments. 

Could he be any more dishonest? Could he be any more of a vile loser? 

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It wouldn't end the protest, but it might have led to a more constructive process. By not meeting them immediately as they arrived, it became a confrontation where a meeting later would have become appeasement.

He was hiding in a basement again.

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Now, if the protest is percieved to have worked, we are in for a difficult summer. The Wet'suwet'en rail blockades may resume and rather than the proper way to deal with issues in the civil political tradition, protest will be the new device, not just for the many legitamate issues First Nations have, but for crazy wingnuts like me. I can drive my old corolla down to the border crossing at Cascade, BC and block the road and honk my horn and make life hell for every chipmunk, rabbit and deer for 500 metres around, until the government susidizes ski hills in Canada. That'll show'em.

Not really.

As a former cop you know as well as anyone that there's an appropriate level of force that's allowed when reacting to a threat. You don't drop a nuke on a country that puts a tariff on your apples, and by the same token granny Smith doesn't get to shut down Hwy 1 if the city wants to put a park at the end of her street. 

The truckers are protesting against these vaccine mandates which affect everyone in the country UNFAIRLY. Everyone in the country. And not just now, this is setting the precedent for future generations. 

"We have a vaccine that doesn't work very well, and sure, we got caught lying about it a bunch of times now, and it does have serious side-effects for people who it doesn't really help, but you should take it or we'll force you out of society and ruin you financially. Notice we said 'should', not 'have to' so we are not forcing you. This is just a cute little mandate."

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17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Over 1,000 fully vaxed people have died in the last 6 weeks. Kids are getting myocarditis from the vax who never got covid. The people who push the vaxes are the same ones who agreed with the WHO when they curiously stated that "H2H isn't happening." They also told us that "ANYONE WHO SAYS THAT THE VIRUS CAME FROM A LAB IS A CONSPIRACY THEORIST AND THEY NEED TO BE SILENCED!!!" That's just the tip of the iceberg. Vax-Nazis are the biggest liars on the planet. Some of them even act like the Jan 6th riot was the only riot in the US in the last ten years.

What is your source for the 1000 fatalities?

The H2H came out when the virus was just appearing in China and there was based on scant information. The source of Covid 19 has never been determined.

 

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