'Member the churches burning? Turn out there were no mass graves after all.

[QuebecOverCanada]

There was in fact a mistake done by an anthropologist research team. Anomalies first taken for corpses were actually... roots from trees.

Interesting; https://www.dorchesterreview.ca/blogs/news/in-kamloops-not-one-body-has-been-found?s=09

AFTER SEVEN MONTHS of recrimination and denunciation, where are the remains of the children buried at the Kamloops Indian Residential School?

The Canadian Press has just honoured the children of residential schools as the “Person of the Year 2021.” The huge media story last summer grew out of the scanning of part of the site in the British Columbia interior where the school operated from 1890 to 1978. The “discovery” was first reported last May 27 by Tk'emlúps te secwépemc First Nation Chief Rosanne Casimir after an anthropologist, Sarah Beaulieu, used ground-penetrating radar in a search for the remains of children alleged by some to be buried there. She is a young anthropologist, an instructor in Anthropology and Sociology at the University of the Fraser Valley since 2018. Her preliminary report is actually based on depressions and abnormalities in the soil of an apple orchard near the school – not on exhumed remains. According to Chief Casimir, these “missing children” represent “undocumented deaths.” Their presence, she says, has long been “knowledge” in the community and “some were as young as three years old.”[1]

From new research revealed at a July 15 press conference last year, the anthropologist scaled back the potential discovery from 215 to 200 “probable burials.” Having “barely scratched the surface,” she found many “disturbances in the ground such as tree roots, metal and stones.” The “disruptions picked up in the radar,” she says, led her to conclude that the sites “have multiple signatures that present like burials.” But she cannot confirm that until the site is excavated – if it is ever done. A community spokesperson says the full report “cannot” be released to the media.[2] For Chief Casimir, “it is not yet clear whether the continuing work on the Kamloops site will involve excavation.”

The Kamloops “discovery” of 2021 created a major sensation in Canada and abroad. Based on the preliminary assessment and before any remains were found or any credible report made, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau immediately referred to “a dark and shameful chapter” in Canadian history.[3] British Columbia Premier John Horgan said he was “horrified and heartbroken” to learn of a burial site with 215 children that highlights the violence and consequences of the residential school system.[4] Several other Aboriginal communities and media outlets then followed up with references to unmarked graves.

On May 30, the federal government lowered the flags on all its buildings to half-staff. Later, it instituted a new holiday to honour "missing" children and survivors of residential schools. Spontaneously, clusters of shoes and orange shirts and other paraphernalia were placed on church steps in many cities or on the steps of legislatures in memory of the little victims. Around the country, churches were burned or vandalized. Statues were spray-painted and pulled down in apparent retaliation for the fate of the children. The statue of Queen Victoria in front of the Manitoba Legislature was defaced and pulled down. Montreal’s statue of Sir John A. Macdonald, Canada's first prime minister, was knocked down, his detached bronze head symbolically rolling on the ground.      

In the wake of unsubstantiated claims by Aboriginal leaders, several media outlets amplified and hyped the story by alleging that the bodies of 215 children had been found, adding that “thousands” of children had “gone missing” from residential schools and that parents had not been informed. The undisturbed sites even became “mass graves” where bodies were dumped in a jumble.

This supposed “news” made the rounds in all sorts of media, tarnishing Canada’s self-image and reputation abroad. Under the title “Horrible History: Mass Grave of Indigenous Children Reported in Canada,” the May 28 New York Times, even when updated on Oct. 5, reported that “For decades, most [sic] Indigenous children in Canada were taken from their families and forced into boarding schools. A large number [sic] never returned home, their families given only vague explanations, or none at all.” The indigenous community “has found evidence of what happened to some of its missing children: a mass grave containing the remains of 215 children on the grounds of a former residential school.”[5]

[H B Lowrey]

2 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

There was in fact a mistake done by an anthropologist research team. Anomalies first taken for corpses were actually... roots from trees.

Interesting; https://www.dorchesterreview.ca/blogs/news/in-kamloops-not-one-body-has-been-found?s=09

AFTER SEVEN MONTHS of recrimination and denunciation, where are the remains of the children buried at the Kamloops Indian Residential School?

The Canadian Press has just honoured the children of residential schools as the “Person of the Year 2021.” The huge media story last summer grew out of the scanning of part of the site in the British Columbia interior where the school operated from 1890 to 1978. The “discovery” was first reported last May 27 by Tk'emlúps te secwépemc First Nation Chief Rosanne Casimir after an anthropologist, Sarah Beaulieu, used ground-penetrating radar in a search for the remains of children alleged by some to be buried there. She is a young anthropologist, an instructor in Anthropology and Sociology at the University of the Fraser Valley since 2018. Her preliminary report is actually based on depressions and abnormalities in the soil of an apple orchard near the school – not on exhumed remains. According to Chief Casimir, these “missing children” represent “undocumented deaths.” Their presence, she says, has long been “knowledge” in the community and “some were as young as three years old.”[1]

From new research revealed at a July 15 press conference last year, the anthropologist scaled back the potential discovery from 215 to 200 “probable burials.” Having “barely scratched the surface,” she found many “disturbances in the ground such as tree roots, metal and stones.” The “disruptions picked up in the radar,” she says, led her to conclude that the sites “have multiple signatures that present like burials.” But she cannot confirm that until the site is excavated – if it is ever done. A community spokesperson says the full report “cannot” be released to the media.[2] For Chief Casimir, “it is not yet clear whether the continuing work on the Kamloops site will involve excavation.”

The Kamloops “discovery” of 2021 created a major sensation in Canada and abroad. Based on the preliminary assessment and before any remains were found or any credible report made, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau immediately referred to “a dark and shameful chapter” in Canadian history.[3] British Columbia Premier John Horgan said he was “horrified and heartbroken” to learn of a burial site with 215 children that highlights the violence and consequences of the residential school system.[4] Several other Aboriginal communities and media outlets then followed up with references to unmarked graves.

On May 30, the federal government lowered the flags on all its buildings to half-staff. Later, it instituted a new holiday to honour "missing" children and survivors of residential schools. Spontaneously, clusters of shoes and orange shirts and other paraphernalia were placed on church steps in many cities or on the steps of legislatures in memory of the little victims. Around the country, churches were burned or vandalized. Statues were spray-painted and pulled down in apparent retaliation for the fate of the children. The statue of Queen Victoria in front of the Manitoba Legislature was defaced and pulled down. Montreal’s statue of Sir John A. Macdonald, Canada's first prime minister, was knocked down, his detached bronze head symbolically rolling on the ground.      

In the wake of unsubstantiated claims by Aboriginal leaders, several media outlets amplified and hyped the story by alleging that the bodies of 215 children had been found, adding that “thousands” of children had “gone missing” from residential schools and that parents had not been informed. The undisturbed sites even became “mass graves” where bodies were dumped in a jumble.

This supposed “news” made the rounds in all sorts of media, tarnishing Canada’s self-image and reputation abroad. Under the title “Horrible History: Mass Grave of Indigenous Children Reported in Canada,” the May 28 New York Times, even when updated on Oct. 5, reported that “For decades, most [sic] Indigenous children in Canada were taken from their families and forced into boarding schools. A large number [sic] never returned home, their families given only vague explanations, or none at all.” The indigenous community “has found evidence of what happened to some of its missing children: a mass grave containing the remains of 215 children on the grounds of a former residential school.”[5]

Canada: Remains of 215 children found buried near Kamloops Indian Residential School - CNN

Report: Over 600 bodies found at Indigenous school in Canada - ABC News (go.com)

Kamloops Indian Residential School - Wikipedia

Canada mourns as remains of 215 children found at indigenous school - BBC News

215 bodies discovered at former residential school for Indigenous children in Canada - ABC News (go.com)

Canada mass grave: As country mourns discovery of children's remains on grounds of Kamloops Indian Residential School, action is demanded - CNN

Canada: 751 unmarked graves found at residential school - BBC News

 

Fucking liar.

[QuebecOverCanada]

You are silly. You are just posting links about the claim not proving anything, resorting to name calling.

The articles you posted... are cited in the link I posted. 

Where are the remains now?

[Infidel Dog]

Lauren Southern has made a lot of new enemies covering this story since it came out. 

She's all over Professor Rouillard QOC. So happy somebody else finally gets it.

She video documents the tale from start to finish here:

Not ONE Body Found in Canadian "Mass Graves" 

Once one knows the whole story one has to conclude the way the media desperately built something out of nothing is pretty shameful. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[myata]

Why does this sound reminiscent of Dr. Charlie Smith discovery of non-existent "shaken baby syndrome" that cost dearly many families not to mention taxpayers? Sure that happened two decades back and lasted two decades. The country is becoming a scary place. There's so little independent critical questioning and analysis.

The bureaucracy together with progressive" media and agenda groups is in a runaway mode. There's no reasonable checks or controls. Anything is possible.

And certainly, a ripe condition for the rise of authoritarianism, whatever cause or justification or flag.

Edited January 23, 2022 by myata

[ironstone]

"Discovery of mass graves filled with indigenous children! "  is certainly attention grabbing. That was clearly the intent and to play up the white guilt angle in perpetuity. To be clear it was bad how natives were treated back then but time marches on. The vast majority of people today did not play a role in the poor treatment of natives back then.

[myata]

Another chapter out of authoritarian playbook is that reflexes to accept mindlessly and obey have to be reinforced, regularly and continuously. Drums, marches, rallies, you read it. Loud calls, dramatic mobilizing agendas. Teacher in niqab tragedies. Unvaccinated. Wonder is it only a coincidence or someone is trying to adapt it for the liberal technocracy that is planning to rule wisely and benevolently "for as long as necessary"? Can we know, anymore?

[myata]

Another discovery reported today, ninety free "potential graves". Also by "radar search". I understand if a crime has been committed, exhumation is a standard procedure. What if a crime has been committed on the reported scale? Not going into grim details but such investigations happened in many places in the world.

When there will be evidence, not just reports? Is it too much to ask, already? What's going on in this country? Does objective truth exist anymore here?

[Nefarious Banana]

There's a difference between 'mass graves' and a grave yard with graves now unmarked due to neglect and time.

'Mass graves' sells . . . . and that is exactly what this is., and the governments are buying.  

[myata]

How can we know a fact, objective truth from a report, story, etc? Can we, anymore?

[OftenWrong]

55 minutes ago, myata said:

How can we know a fact, objective truth from a report, story, etc? Can we, anymore?

It seems doubtful we can, for we are in the realm of the King of Lies.

Mr. Trudeua...

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

It seems doubtful we can, for we are in the realm of the King of Lies.

I have never seen the MSM come even CLOSE to the lies I see from independent online media, with the exception of Canadaland in Canada.  And yes that includes FOX.

They will tell us that the smirk on Rosemary Barton's face when she interviews O'Toole is the equivalent of somebody on here telling me that a University of Western prof was FIRED for her views.

I am all about correcting MSM on their inaccuracies but it would help if the far right held their hysterical media to the same standards.

[Infidel Dog]

The problem with that is you don't seem to think or want us to know there's as much fringe or far left media as there is on the right. Also I'm getting the feeling you would like us to group stuff like Daily Wire or the Federalist in with what you're calling "far right" while forgetting to label stuff like the Daily Beast, Salon, Mother Jones and recent arrivals to the left by lefty purchase or other appropriation like The Atlantic, Snopes or MediabiasFactcheck.

The New York Times and Washington Post get steadily less credible and in Canada how can we trust the government financed 5 0'clock lies? The new left-friendly corporates run the slave media the government misses, and the leftist monopolies running social media decide what 'news' can be seen or heard by their sheeple.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Infidel Dog said:

1. The problem with that is you don't seem to think or want us to know there's as much fringe or far left media as there is on the right.

2. Also I'm getting the feeling you would like us to group stuff like Daily Wire or the Federalist in with what you're calling "far right" while forgetting to label stuff like the Daily Beast, Salon, Mother Jones and recent arrivals to the left by lefty purchase or other appropriation like The Atlantic, Snopes or MediabiasFactcheck.

3. The New York Times and Washington Post get steadily less credible and in Canada how can we trust the government financed slave media?

4. The corporates run the 5 0'clock slave media the government misses,

5. and the leftist monopolies running social media decide what 'news' can be seen or heard by their sheeple.

1. As much ?  Tricky wording.  I'll say that there are a ton of far-left sources but how much play to they get ?  Not as much AFAIK.  Take AM radio and politics - who is on there ?  Formerly Rush, Hannity etc.  There WAS an outfit called Air America and that died pretty quickly.  There's lot of far left media but do they get play on here ?  Searching for TheRebel on here there are lots of hits.  I think the 'right' is better at connecting with people.

2. Mother Jones is 'left' and Salon seems to lean 'left'.  I don't want to opine on any of the other sources - I don't know them as well.

3. Because they are largely right-wing and have a long tradition and reputation when it comes to The Press.  You never trusted the CBC so I'll leave that one.

4. Corporate 5 o'clock media doesn't get funded in the way the CBC and newspapers do.  

5. Yeah - didn't you just post an example of Facebook removing a Convoy Group ?  So ... I don't think there's much evidence either way.  For the record though I am against private corps governing online speech, so I'm with you on that.

 

[Infidel Dog]

Let's be specific. It was the 5 0'clock alphabet liars of Canadian TV news that were pushing rotting tree trunks or root systems and old legitimate grave yards where the markers had rotted or washed away as "Mass Graves."

Churches burned and the true believers rushed online or wherever to establish their moral superiority and perform their ritual "3 minutes of hate" because those self-same 5 O'clock liars pushed them into it. If you want to think of them and yourself as middle-of-the-road independents or moderates you're wrong but go ahead. Call it whatever you like. You and yours are still responsible by pushing or accepting that garbage as credible.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[myata]

If I cannot ensure that a source of information is credible and objective I'll simply ignore it. There's no point is spending time on messages that can be misleading, deliberately confusing and obscuring, deliberately withholding essential information or plain untrue ("mass graves of children found" - this is a factual, verifiable or falsifiable statement, the fact either exists or it does not). It just does not worth the time.

[Nefarious Banana]

'Mass graves' . . . and  . . . 'genocide'

Those words go together as easily as

'Money' . . . and  . . . 'guilt'

'Bullshit' . . . stands alone.

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I have never seen the MSM come even CLOSE to the lies I see from independent online media, with the exception of Canadaland in Canada.  And yes that includes FOX.

They will tell us that the smirk on Rosemary Barton's face when she interviews O'Toole is the equivalent of somebody on here telling me that a University of Western prof was FIRED for her views.

I am all about correcting MSM on their inaccuracies but it would help if the far right held their hysterical media to the same standards.

Regardless of WHO covered the story, the question was have they discovered any remains todate. One would think that one measure would be the proof that could secure all this media... And yet we are being lead to believe that blips on the machine ARE the remains of lost children, and we automatically assume that they can't be anything else, like roots or metal etc...Where is the proof...who needs proof today.

We are also lead that these children where killed with racist hatred by the church, and not of the sickness of the time... it seems we can be lead to conclusion pretty easily by the media...    

[blackbird]

  I think the government and native bands owe it to the public to exhume the remains and determine all the facts in the presence of trustworthy witnesses and forensic experts.  The 37 million Canadians had nothing to do with this.  Yet the media, politicians, native leaders lay this on everyone continually.  We deserve some answers as to what exactly happened and what is the true story behind these alleged unmarked graves.   There is contradictions in the media's reporting.  One day we heard there were 50 of the 93 graves at the Williams Lake residential that sounded like they were separate from the residential schools students.  But the media did not make this clear.  Then later the media reported that there are 93 unmarked graves.  They show pictures which show a large area of grave markers as if it is a normal cemetery.  This just adds more questions about what exactly they are reporting. 

There have also been many grave allegations about what went on in the schools but with no clear details and substantiated facts of what exactly happened, how do we know how, when, what and who was involved.  The things alleged to have occurred sound like crimes.  Why are they not being investigated by the police and proper information being reported through the media?  All of this just leaves a lot of unanswered questions and no accountability.  This kind of reporting and unproven allegations solves nothing and creates a lot of hostility resulting in things like burning down and vandalizing churches and increased radicalization of progressives who are not even native.

In fact, it has already been stated that the Kamloops graves did have markers on them back in the mid 20th century but they were made of wood and left to rot away.  A priest apparently tried to tell people back in the 60s to maintain the graveyard properly, but nobody paid attention.  But this is never mentioned by the mainstream media.

Edited January 27, 2022 by blackbird

[DogOnPorch]

This is completely trumped-up. There are no mass graves full of children murdered Sobibor style by those nasty evil child molesting priests. It just didn't happen. But the narrative is now well entrenched thanks to a helpful media and certain politicians. Big lies work.

[myata]

I'm not judging anything on probabilities. But not believing everything blindly either. Residential schools disaster happened for a similar if not exactly the same reason: unquestioned entitlement to truth and blind compliance or ignorance. No, enough. If these are mass graves of children, then convincing evidence can and has to be produced; otherwise no matter how many times repeated, it does not and shouldn't become true by silence and default. The society has to be able to find out the truth in matters of such importance or it has little claim to being free and democratic.

[TreeBeard]

On 1/26/2022 at 11:02 AM, Army Guy said:

Regardless of WHO covered the story, the question was have they discovered any remains todate. One would think that one measure would be the proof that could secure all this media... And yet we are being lead to believe that blips on the machine ARE the remains of lost children, and we automatically assume that they can't be anything else, like roots or metal etc...Where is the proof...who needs proof today.

We are also lead that these children where killed with racist hatred by the church, and not of the sickness of the time... it seems we can be lead to conclusion pretty easily by the media...    

So you think there are no bodies?  Interesting take.  Do you also deny all the witness accounts of abuse there?  

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

I am ready to acknowledge that the term 'mass graves' is incorrect and even misleading but my feeling is that it's at most a footnote to be reviewed by journalists and media critics (like us I suppose)

[myata]

24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

by journalists and media critics

Maybe we should create new terms for these new professions, so as not to confuse, by association?

[QuebecOverCanada]

The “discovery” meme arose from a scanning by ground-penetrating radar in a search for the remains of children already surmised to have been buried there. A preliminary report did not find bodies, but rather soil disruptions in a nearby apple orchard. No remains were exhumed, but First Nation Chief Rosanne Casimir stated that according to community “knowledge,” the soil abnormalities were 215 “missing children,” some as young as three.

The anthropologist who oversaw the scans cautiously theorized that there were likely 200 “probable burials” — not specifying age — based on the disturbances. But only excavation could provide further evidence of anything, and no excavation has yet been done. But the story was too good to fact-check, and went viral, often with the trope “mass graves” substituting for “unmarked graves,” a distinction with an enormous difference, since “mass” graves are associated with genocide.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/opinion/barbara-kay-what-we-dont-know-about-unmarked-graves-at-residential-schools/wcm/46b5edf0-409c-4a57-bb00-c86e07f1d35e/amp/