Conservative Leadership Up for Grabs in Manitoba

[Melanie_]

In an effort to remind everyone that Canada isn't just Alberta, Ontario, and Quebec...

The Conservative leader in Manitoba, Stuart Murray, has called a leadership convention, after receiving only 55% of his party's support at their AGM. He will announce on Monday if he is going to seek the leadership again, or if he's simply stepping aside. Brian Pallister is expected to run (you'll remember him from the national leadership convention), but no one else is really stepping up just yet.

[tml12]

In an effort to remind everyone that Canada isn't just Alberta, Ontario, and Quebec...

The Conservative leader in Manitoba, Stuart Murray, has called a leadership convention, after receiving only 55% of his party's support at their AGM. He will announce on Monday if he is going to seek the leadership again, or if he's simply stepping aside. Brian Pallister is expected to run (you'll remember him from the national leadership convention), but no one else is really stepping up just yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read about this in the local papers here.

Apparently no one can beat your NDP government there, eh???

[Melanie_]

Your're right, tml12, I doubt Gary Doer and the NDP are worried about losing an election any time soon.

[fellowtraveller]

Is it true that 20% of the provincial revenue stream in Maintoba comes from equalization payments?

Are Manitoba citizens proud of this dependence, and of the government that delivers it?

[Lost in Manitoba]

Why should we be proud of equalization? Better yet, why should we be shamed? For the most part it's all a matter of geological bounty. What do I care if Manitoba doesn't have as much oil as Alberta. It's all Canada, and we're all entitled to roughly the same standards of living. It's politically expediant for one premier to tell his province that the reason public schools are so crappy and university tuition is so high is that equalization is unfair.

[BubberMiley]

Albertans think they have so much money because they have a tremendous work ethic, not because they were just lucky to be sitting on a dinosaur graveyard of countless barrels of oil. Contemptuous talk like that of FellowTraveller makes me wish they'd bring back the national energy program.

[fellowtraveller]

I didn't suggest that Maniotba feel shame, but I do wonder why they have made little progress toward economic self-sufficiency. They have mines, minerals, cheap energy, water, forests, excellent agriculture, well educated workforce, good trtansportation networks, central location - what exactly is the problem?

Nearly all the provinces have done better economically, with far less to work with, New Brunswwick for example.

Lets hear some reasons, not some excuses....

Why hasn't Manitoba made any progress on losing their dependence on others?

[BubberMiley]

The only reason Manitoba is a have-not province is its high population of Aboriginals and the appalling poverty they generally live in. And that's considered more a federal than a provincial issue.

[Montgomery Burns]

Albertans think they have so much money because they have a tremendous work ethic, not because they were just lucky to be sitting on a dinosaur graveyard of countless barrels of oil. Contemptuous talk like that of FellowTraveller makes me wish they'd bring back the national energy program.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's bull. Saskatchewan has lots of oil, uranium, potash, coal, and timber, but struggles; it's filthy rich in natural resources.

Why does it struggle? Because Alberta has a conservative govt that is friendly to business. Sask has a NDP govt that is hostile to business (highest corporate taxes in Canada and massive regulation). Where would you go invest if you were a business person?

I recently saw a map of Alberta and Sask. Alberta had oil and gas "dots" all over the province, but it mysteriously almost completely came to a stop at the Saskatchewan border. What a coincidence, huh?

One of my friend's daughters works at a polling market research company and she says that when it comes to the question of total household income, it is like night and day when it comes to Alberta and Sask.

The NDP edged us last time (30 to 28 seats) by using scaremongering tactics, but we will get them next time...I hope.

[fellowtraveller]

The only reason Manitoba is a have-not province is its high population of Aboriginals and the appalling poverty they generally live in. And that's considered more a federal than a provincial issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to StatsCan, Saskatchewan has a higher proportion of First Nations people than Manitoba, and they have managed to dredge themselves into some semblance of solvency. Manitoba isn't even close.

And considering that DIAND spends some $7Billion per year on First Nations affairs, and assuming that those in Manitoba get their share of that - wouldn't that improve manitobas financial position, not make it worse?

Nope Bubber, can't blame this one on the Indians.

Still left wondering why MB underperforms so badly.

[BubberMiley]

Actually Manitoba is doing very well since they tossed the Conservatives. Balanced budgets every year, tons of cash from hydroelectricity that they're now selling to the northern states and Ontario. I don't know where you get your info from.

[BubberMiley]

Oh, and Manitoba also has the second lowest unemployment rate in the country, though I realize to most Conservatives that's a bad thing, because then they have to pay people a living wage.

[fellowtraveller]

There are many sources, here is one of them: graph halfway down, note the huge amount, disproportionate to the size of Manitobas economy

About 20% of Manitobas annual operating budget is derived from other provinces largesse, despite your claims of prosperity and good government.

[BubberMiley]

Point taken, Traveller, but it often takes a few years before the signs of an economic turnaround show up in statistics like the ones you link. The markets themselves (i.e., things like house prices, unemployment figures, consumer spending) and signs of prosperity on the horizon (like the Conawapa dam deal where Manitoba will be providing Ontario and the northern States with a great deal of energy) are more accurate signs of where things are at right now. Winnipeg housing prices have gone up something like 40% in the last two years, and the most recent Labour Force Survey showed that, in November, unemployment went down to 4.2%, the lowest since April 1976 (and second lowest in Canada).

Oh, and I'm not "blaming the Indians." It's just a fact that reserves in Canada are like mini-Third World countries.

[fellowtraveller]

Oh, and I'm not "blaming the Indians." 

The only reason Manitoba is a have-not province is its high population of Aboriginals

[BubberMiley]

Uh-huh. Not blaming; just stating facts. Ever seen a reserve? They aren't pretty (unless maybe they struck oil).

[fellowtraveller]

Which of your two contradictory statements are you now claiming to be correct?

Reserves are not a provincial responsibility, and have nothing to do with Manitobas wellbeing or lack thereof.

Frankly, your comments smack of racism.

[BubberMiley]

Good idea. Play the racism card if you have no brains for a real argument.

I said, reserves are in bad shape. I blame the fact that Aboriginals had all their decent land stolen from them and were sent into the bush to make a new life for themselves. What do you blame for their dire conditions?

[BubberMiley]

BTW, I might as well shut down your other lame argument before you think you can debate or something.

Aboriginals fall under federal responsibility for things like housing, treaties, etc. But in terms of health care, employment, living standards, etc., they're included in provincial statistics. That's not to mention that nearly half the population lives off reserve and are practically ignored by the feds. Nonetheless, this is not to say I'm even negative about the future of Aboriginals in Canada. Though widespread FAS is a great cause for concern, there are a lot of really positive indications that their situation is improving. You could say (because you're a desperate debater) that identifying FAS or poor living conditions as an Aboriginal concern is racist. I say it's just being realistic, and that's the only way to ever identify and solve a problem.

[Melanie_]

Back to the original topic, although the side debate was pretty interesting....

I know this is a bit late, but perhaps overshadowed by the cabinet positions that were doled out. Brian Pallister was elected federally, but he asked not to be given a cabinet seat so he could keep his options open for the provincial leadership race. His story is that it was too late to back out of the nomination process by the time the election was called, but you'll notice I started this thread November 10, well before the election was called. This will probably end up being the first byelection of Harper's government.

[tml12]

Your're right, tml12, I doubt Gary Doer and the NDP are worried about losing an election any time soon.

How is that Tory leadership going...I havent't read about it in awhile Melanie???

[Melanie_]

How is that Tory leadership going...I havent't read about it in awhile Melanie???

Pallister may be the only one who wants it. Reminds me of the federal Liberal leadership - begging for candidates!

[BubberMiley]

A new MLA, Hugh McFadyan is touring the province trying to get support, but he's a bit of a rookie and I don't think they want another one of those. It's funny that John Loewen would have been a shoo-in if he didn't quit the party to run for the Liberals federally (to lose to Steven Fletcher).

I wouldn't say Doer has it in the bag though. Manitoba likes to change its government every 10 years or so, and rarely gives three majorities in a row.

[Melanie_]

Anita Neville, a Liberal MP here in Winnipeg, is asking that Brian Pallister's expenses for his leadership bid be examined. Her argument is that he is using his perks as an MP (particularly his staff paid for by Ottawa) to run his campaign for the provincial Conservative leadership. No hard evidence that I've seen yet, we'll see how this plays out.

[Transplanted Caper]

Any word as to whether former PC MP Rick Borotsik is interested?