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Trucker's Convoy


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14 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

I’m pretty certain you think @WestCanMan lies about a lot of things, yet you still talk to him. Or do you think he sincerely believes all the stuff he spews onto the forum?

Yup. I believe the Cdn gov't's own stats when they say that almost 90% of covid deaths in Canada were among the multi-vaxed. Why would they lie about that when it was so contrary to their own narrative?

Why did they suddenly stop posting the vaxed vs unvaxed death toll in Sept 2022 if it was validating their awesomevax narrative? 

I believe the gov't's stats that say "more people died of covid in 2022 than in any other year" because as I was watching the weekly death toll graph on the Health Canada infobase site last year, I was noticing that the weekly deaths were quite a bit higher than in previous years. I commented on it many times here. 

The only reason that you don't believe those things are true is that you don't want to, much in the same way that millions of Canadians don't want to believe that the Leafs are out of the playoffs. You're one of the people who has a vested interest in the "beautiful, shiny vax" theory because you went along with the vax mandates, the gesundheitspass, forcing young people to vax, etc.

If the vax is a failure that makes you a fool, so considering anything against vax success is impossible for you. You're one of the s-m-r-t guys, right? 

In your world Trump colluded, Jan 6th is the equivalent of 9/11 and Pearl Harbour, Jussie was beat up by MAGA extremists, Sandman was a racist goon, there was a 50-person car crash in Waukesha, M Brown was a gentle giant who was shot from a cop in a car while his hands were up, Trudeau merely failed to recuse himself from the obvious decision to give WE a $900B contract, Trudeau was just being a good guy when he created a law specifically to help SNC Lavalin and the fact that SNC has a court-documented history of bribing people to get contracts should remain hidden from the public, etc.

I get it TreeBeard. Your head is firmly in the sand and everything I say makes you sad. So why don't you put me on ignore? Why do you let my conspiracy theories disrupt your vision of Trudeau as a demi-God? 

My advice to you, just get Trudeau's face photoshopped onto this and get it turned into a poster:

ScreenShot2023-05-22at7_29_36PM.png.d023d7ff15d791d443d840170953aa93.png

You can call it "Brokeback Parliament Hill". Just stare at it all day and you'll never have to go online to see the nasty words again. 

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16 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Fair point.  Done.  
 

 

I give you more credit than @Michael Hardner.   I don’t believe that you’re stupid enough to believe all that nonsense, I just think you get your jollies on the forum.  

I don't give you any credit, I think you're a total zero. 

You can never speak on topic or bring any facts to the table, all you're good for is name-calling. 

Hasta la vista, baby!

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  • 2 months later...
17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Pretty sad case.  He seems to never be mentioned anymore and a long list of crimes he'll have to defend himself over.  Clearly, nobody cares anymore.

Nobody cared then.  They wanted a scape goat and he was front and center for it but lets get real, the vast majority of convoy people would barely have known who he was.

He was the equivalent of a Morris dancer running out onto a battlefield, flinging his hankies about  and getting shot by the enemy while his own side asks 'who was that guy?".  Useful for Justin to vent his frustrations on and that's about it.

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4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Says a lot about the depth of this movement, frankly...

The movement wasn't about Pat King. No one follows him blindly the way that you follow sock boy.

The only reason that he's standing trial is that Canada is a joke right now. 

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4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Says a lot about the depth of this movement, frankly...

There wasn't much depth to begin with - a bunch of truckers were sick of having their income taken away by trudeau and being insulted by the guy. That was about it. As is often the case others tend to try to hijack movements that are gaining steam but that didn't really happen here.

So people who were fed up with being treated like crap so that justin could score political points and others who were sick of being called bigots and wastes of space that shouldn't be tolerated just because they questioned getting jabbed got frustrated and headed to ottawa. There's no 'depth' to be had there - they just were done with having their rights and their freedoms and their lively hoods abused as a political pawn for a scumbag prime minister.

 

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5 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

 This is why my position is that Canada needs a change, too much time in power, one becomes comfortable like in 2 and starts letting the anger come. 

I reflected today on describing myself as standing for the status quo or somesuch, on here.  As much as that may be true, I actually think that wholesale change is past due.  And not just change in government.  Does Poilievre, who is a cookie cutter career politician albeit with a coating of populism, strike you as a visionary or someone who can see anything beyond being in power ?  

The Convoy was a peasant's revolt of a kind, and a challenge to the elites that needs a big brain to rebalance.  

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I reflected today on describing myself as standing for the status quo or somesuch, on here.  As much as that may be true, I actually think that wholesale change is past due.  And not just change in government.  Does Poilievre, who is a cookie cutter career politician albeit with a coating of populism, strike you as a visionary or someone who can see anything beyond being in power ?  

The Convoy was a peasant's revolt of a kind, and a challenge to the elites that needs a big brain to rebalance.  

Glad to hear.  Pat King is an easy target because he’s unsophisticated and has bought into some sketchy world views like “race replacement theory”, but such ideas are symptoms of people’s sense of powerlessness and frustration.  They’re not racist views because they don’t put down or denigrate any races.  They do speak to a sense of loss or displacement.  King doesn’t deserve to go to jail unless he incited or committed violence.  Hate crime is a sketchy concept because it’s highly subjective unless it involves something clear cut like a racial slur attached to claiming that some races are better than others, and justifying abuses of a people.  It’s hard to argue hate here, and as a free speech libertarian, I think almost all speech must be permitted, despicable as it might be. King is hardly despicable.  His flaws are easily identified, and I don’t know much about him or his role in the Freedom Convoy, though I think it was peripheral.

The analogue of the Peasants’ Revolt is apt because I think deep down this movement was more about pushing back against privileged elites and their rules for thee but not for me than anything else. Exhausted front line workers were disrespected by people with the means to insulate themselves from danger and to live much the same lifestyle they had pre-pandemic, including travel and leisure.

The masks came off (pun intended) of the ruling class as mostly self-serving and disconnected from the daily reality of most people.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think deep down this movement was more about pushing back against privileged elites and their rules for thee but not for me than anything else.

Everyone wants this, but in their own way and all too often in a way that gets in everyone else's.

While the elites laugh all the way to the bank.

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21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Everyone wants this, but in their own way and all too often in a way that gets in everyone else's.

While the elites laugh all the way to the bank.

In many ways the Marxist critique of class struggle underlying our problems holds up.  It’s the resolution that’s problematic, as the oppressed seem to inevitably become the oppressors after the revolution.  Democracy is the only way and we do need to maintain some order, but when governments insult protesters and paint them all with the same deplorable brush, freeze bank accounts, etc., you can’t expect everyone to go along to get along.  I just hope the public turfs the current clowns out of office in the next election. We don’t have many options in terms of opposition.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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3 hours ago, Contrarian said:

1.  ... a rising People's Party, do you want that? 

2. Then, my take is to compromise with folks like Poilievre, or else the pendulum will keep swinging, and personally I don't want to live like in Brazil or Peru, when the right or left wins, there are riots and unrest. 

1.  No but there are other ways forward too.
2. I don't think that the populism has reached an overwhelming level by any measure.  Look at the polls, it's 50-50 with the NDP third place.

Canada needs a wholesale change that is not of old-school-right vs old-school-left.

We need:

- Supportable public services
- Simplicity and unity in governance
- De-emphasis of moral and culture fights

Do the Conservatives or Liberals seem to promise anything like that ?  No.  We have to wait for new leaders.

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39 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

 Technocrats, Tech leaders, and other independents could take charge of advancing AI tools, which continue to grow in intelligence and even emulate politicians.

By collaborating with AI systems capable of translating political language, they could potentially drive the system toward innovation.

This could lead to the emergence of a Tech New Party, aiming to bring about positive change in politics through technology-driven solutions.

One of them rebranded a platform of his which is already shaking the system towards some sort of change, some say positive, others say negative, it all depends where your BIAS is at. 

I would say maybe.  But as a tech person I know the term 'garbage in garbage out'

Is the system DESIGNED for the people that are using it - always question #1 when it comes to design issues.  

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2 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

  you will be surprised what it can be achieved, 

I'm open to it.  Perhaps it sits at the nexus of the question of how it could help humanity.

Do we need something brand new, which I presume would come from a human, or do we need a synthesis of current thinking ?

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34 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

Technocrats, professionals across different industries who are not necessarily political, can start using AI, @Moonbox, I know you don't use it, so not too sure why you judge a product before you tried it, however, technocrats can start using AI, different versions, they can even use AI to detect other AI trolls which are manipulating information, etc, and also come together for solutions and innovation

I have used it, (and I suspect long before you ever did).  One of my best friends is also a Microsoft AI engineer and easily the wealthiest person I know. 

I'm not arguing against the usefulness of AI, but rather how it's going to be abused by the ultra-powerful.  AI learning is very much a matter of resources and processing power, and the folks who control the means are going to be the ones that are going to have an advantage in everything.  

Robust rules and guidelines couldn't be more important, and we're already at a point where AI's are solving problems that humans never had before, and teaching people to do things that they really shouldn't.  See:

https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/17/22983197/ai-new-possible-chemical-weapons-generative-models-vx

On a lark, researchers asked the AI to come up with ideas for chemical weapons compounds, and in six hours they AI came up with 40,000 suggestions.   ?

Edited by Moonbox
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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

In many ways the Marxist critique of class struggle underlying our problems holds up.  It’s the resolution that’s problematic, as the oppressed seem to inevitably become the oppressors after the revolution.  Democracy is the only way and we do need to maintain some order, but when governments insult protesters and paint them all with the same deplorable brush, freeze bank accounts, etc., you can’t expect everyone to go along to get along.  I just hope the public turfs the current clowns out of office in the next election. We don’t have many options in terms of opposition.

The most worrisome part in all of that is that our media was in lock step with our gov't's disinformation and fascist actions all the way.

Aren't they supposed to be one of the key checks and balances protecting our democracy? Isn't that why they enjoy "freedom of the press"?

They just saw one guy with golden socks and threw journalistic integrity right out the f'n window. "Normally we hate fascism, but I'd spend a month in that guy's gulag for telling the truth ? ."  

How is it possible that no one at CTV, CBC or Global News noticed that vax promises have back-peddled all the way from "the vaccines will be/are safe and effective: if you take the vaccine you don't have to worry, and you can't give covid to granny", to "the vax kills some people who are healthy enough that they didn't even need a vax if it worked, and tens of thousands of Canadians have died of covid after being multi-vaxed"?

What we call a 'vax' now is such a watered-down version of what we were sold that we'd take that crap right back to Best Buy if we had bought it there.

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4 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

Did not remotely touch? I gave you arguments how AI can change politics, how technocrats can use it to bring forward ideas in politics and gain a stronger voice.

No, because none of that had anything to do with my post, which concerned the dangers of AI being abused.  

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On 5/21/2023 at 12:44 PM, blackbird said:

That post was a long time ago.  I am not entirely against the convoy.  I understand Trudeau was or is a kind of dictator.  I am very much opposed to Trudeau's liberal ideology, globalism, and progressivism to begin with and I do sympathize with some of the protester's beliefs.  

The polling basically showed that most people felt that way - disagreed with the protest or what they were doing but had sympathy for their issues.

The thing is - people need to understand that when you make peaceful revolution impossible you make violent revolution inevitable.  Trudeau woudlnt' even acknowledge their concerns, he'd be referring to them as bigots and mysoginists and wastes of space that maybe shouldn't be tolerated.  He refused to meet with them or look for compromises.

He even refused to say what conditions would have to look like to reverse his position. It certainly appeared to be entirely punitive, they had no other avenues to plead their case, and then this happened.  It was entirely avoidable, and it was entirely a result of his weaponizing vaccinations for political points.

 

Edited by CdnFox
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6 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

1. You used it, daily? Or he just showed you a demo? I use both ChatGPT and Baird here for this hobby, other hobbies, etc, what was your exposure to this AI from the Microsoft AI engineer? 

2. I disagree, AI in the free market is a revolutionary force driving innovation. We are already in the pockets of the ultra-powerful, on the media and political side.

  • So why not let Big Tech have a try on your mind? It can't be worse than the brainwashing politicians and the media have done all these years on us.

Are those convoy trucks diesel powered?

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2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You don't, you vote for them and then defend them here online.

Perhaps the caricature of me that your mind has created for you has but as for me, you've written me off as a liar - so how the hell would you ever know what I mean or say or tell you? The state of suspended  disbelief you've chosen to exist in cripples your ability think straight about anything.

I think Trudeau is the bestest PM in the whole world. You do disbelieve everything I say right?

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