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Trucker's Convoy


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14 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

not a liberal democracy

Majoritarian is an illiberal democracy

the Soviet Union was a democracy in theory

Soviet means Council, which was the mechanism of their tyrannical democracy

the difference was the lack of individual rights against the totalitarian rule of the Bolshevik majority

this sort of government is prohibited in Canada by the constitution

the first 33 Sections being the Charter of Rights & Freedoms

to protect the individual against majority rule

for someone who claims to have served 35 years in HM Canadian Forces

you are shockingly ignorant as to the terms of Canadian Westminster Parliamentary liberal democracy

rather, you in fact invoke the doctrine of the illiberal mob rule of the Soviet Bolsheviks

 

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let us not forget that the National Socialist Third Reich was also an illiberal democracy

the NSDAP did not seize power by force of arms

the NSDAP was elected to a minority government with a 33% plurality

and by 1938, Adolf Hitler had an 89% approval rating

and just like the Liberal Party of Canada, the Nazis erased history to replace it with a Post National State

and just like the Liberals, the Nazis imposed their own flag and national anthem to replace the imperial ones

and just as the National Socialists were the opposite of national & socialist

the Liberals in Canada are the Orwellian opposite of liberal

Edited by Dougie93
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4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Pandemic planned? Yeah, OK. There is a new one LOL

Zero COVID in China? Are you well? Have you not been paying attention to the entire cities shut down. To COVID emergency centres with hundred and hundreds of quarantine beds 

All masking and vaccination mandates (air and train travel excepted) were all Provincial

Immigration is another issue entirely and a topic that should be discussed.

 

I know a lot more about what’s going on in China than you do.  China locked down 25 million people in Shanghai because of the spread of Omicron.  There were no deaths caused by Covid, yet government separated families and isolated people in poorly equipped facilities, sometimes without access to showers and food.  I’m tired of having to explain everything.  If you can’t keep up, get off the fucking forum.   

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1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

I look in the mirror and see someone living in Canada with all the freedoms and constitutional rights to keep me happy.

Wow, sure. You have no constitutional right not to put a piece of dirty cloth over your mouth though when an obscure bureaucrat tells you so for a reason known only to them. If you woke up for a brief moment you'd realize that this is the same rights that they have in Russia, and North Korea eventually, why not: the right to comply, or else. Good luck!

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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I know a lot more about what’s going on in China than you do.  China locked down 25 million people in Shanghai because of the spread of Omicron.  There were no deaths caused by Covid, yet government separated families and isolated people in poorly equipped facilities, sometimes without access to showers and food.  I’m tired of having to explain everything.  If you can’t keep up, get off the fucking forum.   

You said "Zero Covid in China is the exemplar."

Omicron is a COVID-19 variant.

You say "no deaths caused by Covid".  China reports only 5000 deaths but that is disputed and felt that China had drastically under reported cases and deaths.

Who is asking you to explain things, especially things that everyone knows. You are far from a reliable news source. You are only validating things I have already said. I said "Zero COVID in China? Are you well? Have you not been paying attention to the entire cities shut down. To COVID emergency centres with hundred and hundreds of quarantine beds  "

Seems I am keeping up, I don't have to regurgitate what others have said and can easily correct you. LOL

 

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2 minutes ago, myata said:

Wow, sure. You have no constitutional right not to put a piece of dirty cloth over your mouth though when an obscure bureaucrat tells you so for a reason known only to them. If you woke up for a brief moment you'd realize that this is the same rights that they have in Russia, and North Korea eventually, why not: the right to comply, or else. Good luck!

Pretty sad when your entire life rotates around whether I or many others choose to wear masks.

I choose to wear a mask in certain situations and choose not to wear a masks in others. My choice. My freedom to do so, just as it is your freedom of choice to do so or not. No obscure bureaucrat telling me, just my wide awake freedom of choice.

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1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Pretty sad when your entire life rotates around whether I or many others choose to wear masks.

Looks like you are slow or being obtuse, deliberately or just so. I've no problem with what you like wear over, on or even in your mouth. It's sad that some of my money goes into playing non stop useless and dangerous propaganda but that cannot be helped here. The problem for me begins when not satisfied with wearing your bikini or whatever, you start telling me what I should wear or do, or where go or not without a good reason, or just for no reason just because you can. That is a serious, big problem, for me.

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On 4/30/2022 at 11:19 AM, eyeball said:

No you can't see it.  The MSM ordered the government to censor it. Or was it the government ordering the MSM around? It's hard to tell because these people really never make it clear who is in control of who or what - just that we can't be allowed or trusted to see what's happening.

Canada's right-wingers are a funny bunch, not as committed or dedicated as American right-wingers but still every bit as paranoid.

Lol, yeah, I run into that a lot in my life. They should look at what it's like to be a liberal protesting in America lol. Very coddled by comparison.

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23 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

You said "Zero Covid in China is the exemplar."

Omicron is a COVID-19 variant.

You say "no deaths caused by Covid".  China reports only 5000 deaths but that is disputed and felt that China had drastically under reported cases and deaths.

Who is asking you to explain things, especially things that everyone knows. You are far from a reliable news source. You are only validating things I have already said. I said "Zero COVID in China? Are you well? Have you not been paying attention to the entire cities shut down. To COVID emergency centres with hundred and hundreds of quarantine beds  "

Seems I am keeping up, I don't have to regurgitate what others have said and can easily correct you. LOL

 

No you don’t seem to understand that China has a Zero Covid policy.  It will imprison people to prevent the spread of what is now a mild illness.  

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3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

No you don’t seem to understand that China has a Zero Covid policy.  It will imprison people to prevent the spread of what is now a mild illness.  

What good is a policy if in Shanghai alone 26 million are locked down and still not prevented deaths? Almost the entire population of Canada. Man, you would definitely have something to whine and complain about then but wait, you would go to jail to think about your freedom :)

Now they are talking about locking down Beijing.

Point is, you and some others here are whining about your freedoms being jeopardized, about unfair lock downs, about having to wear masks and you bring up China? Now that is a laugh LOL

 

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24 minutes ago, myata said:

Looks like you are slow or being obtuse, deliberately or just so. I've no problem with what you like wear over, on or even in your mouth. It's sad that some of my money goes into playing non stop useless and dangerous propaganda but that cannot be helped here. The problem for me begins when not satisfied with wearing your bikini or whatever, you start telling me what I should wear or do, or where go or not without a good reason, or just for no reason just because you can. That is a serious, big problem, for me.

Not obtuse at all.

I am reading your posts and your major complaint is wearing masks. Well, if you don't want to, don't. Easy peasy.

Please, don't bring up bikini, you don't have top wear one either LOL

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The grave mistake the so-called "freedom" convoy and other protesters make in my view is they do not understand freedom has always had it's limits.  For example, I don't have the right to break government health regulations or mandates if they say I must wear a mask in a certain venue or I must be vaccinated to enter a certain location.  The reason for the regulations and mandates were and are to protect other people.  People who don't accept that are being very self-centred and inconsiderate of other people.  That's all there is to it.  

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51 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The grave mistake the so-called "freedom" convoy and other protesters make in my view is they do not understand freedom has always had it's limits.  For example, I don't have the right to break government health regulations or mandates if they say I must wear a mask in a certain venue or I must be vaccinated to enter a certain location.  The reason for the regulations and mandates were and are to protect other people.  People who don't accept that are being very self-centred and inconsiderate of other people.  That's all there is to it.  

First off I've come to respect your pov blackbird. 

Secondly, I don't think this is the issue of the freedom folks at all. We understand there are reasonable limits. We just reject that coerced vaccination programs by tying your employability to a vaccine, curfews, and lockdowns are reasonable. In fact, we think it's psychologically abusive to treat the healthy as if they are disease spreaders and find the whole thing insane. 

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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

For example, I don't have the right to break government health regulations or mandates

The answer is: it depends. A rule is not a universal, default answer to all and any question.

There are tyrannical, authoritarian and totalitarian rules that people have full right to resist, overturn and abolish.

Then there are arbitrary, unreasonable and unjustified rules that need to be reviewed, changed, or removed. In a functional, real democracy there's a process and mechanisms for such rules, of review, recourse, and removal if necessary.

And if such processes and mechanisms do not exist, aren't available to the citizens, freely and effectively including quality and time of the response, then they cannot be considered as democratic anymore, but: arbitrary; undemocratic; authoritarian and so on. See p.1.

And one more time: just because I sit in this chair and made this rule for you, is not the answer or any answer. In a democracy. A real, not pretend and painted one.

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3 hours ago, myata said:

No you are obtuse. That much is clear.

No, I understand, you just don't agree so that makes you narrow minded.

You are pissed at wearing a mask seemingly not knowing that you don't have to if you don't want to. LOL

Wake up and smell the real world

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11 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

No, I understand,

No you don't understand: you're obtuse because you deliberately avoid questions or pretend being naive not understanding them. The question was about mandatory policies that were not justified, never met the test of: necessity; effectiveness and proportionality; with no accountability including review and recourse. This is not democratic management; this is one way we say you do authoritarian territory. And then, they discovered the effectiveness of massive propaganda. Good luck.

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13 minutes ago, myata said:

No you don't understand: you're obtuse because you deliberately avoid questions or pretend being naive not understanding them. The question was about mandatory policies that were not justified, never met the test of: necessity; effectiveness and proportionality; with no accountability including review and recourse. This is not democratic management; this is one way we say you do authoritarian territory. And then, they discovered the effectiveness of massive propaganda. Good luck.

Well, that is an opinion. And you have the right to have one.

You are the one being obtuse if you think others cannot have a differing one.

 

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1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Well, that is an opinion. And you have the right to have one.

No it's a difference, distinction. Totalitarian ruler makes decisions just because they think so. Democratic ones are responsible and accountable, and not just on paper but in the reality. Not seeing and understanding the difference is first obtuse, and then, dangerous. This is exactly how totalitarian adventures begin.

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18 minutes ago, myata said:

No it's a difference, distinction. Totalitarian ruler makes decisions just because they think so. Democratic ones are responsible and accountable, and not just on paper but in the reality. Not seeing and understanding the difference is first obtuse, and then, dangerous. This is exactly how totalitarian adventures begin.

Once again , your opinion.

What "Totalitarian ruler"?  Considering most of the mandates were Provincial, municipal and employers, which one are you disparaging?

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4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Considering most of the mandates were Provincial, municipal and employers, which one are you disparaging?

Closed, unaccountable governance is characteristic on all levels in this country, probably increasingly from municipal up to the federal. Given that most mandates were imposed at federal and provincial levels (and their owned or controlled entities) they are the prime culprits. Also very disturbing is massive propaganda of fear and unconditional compliance by government and near it agents. No, democracy cannot continue and survive in the long perspective with this style of public management.

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1 hour ago, myata said:

Closed, unaccountable governance is characteristic on all levels in this country, probably increasingly from municipal up to the federal. Given that most mandates were imposed at federal and provincial levels (and their owned or controlled entities) they are the prime culprits. Also very disturbing is massive propaganda of fear and unconditional compliance by government and near it agents. No, democracy cannot continue and survive in the long perspective with this style of public management.

Keep circling myata.

Fact are clear. Yes, the Feds had a few mandates. Most were Provincial, many were municipal and a lot were by employers. Your claim of dictatorial misuse if phony.

Public heath regulations are not just against you myata, they are to help the public, uublic management as you put it. It is for all of the public. Will they sometimes piss off a few, of course but the general public are the ones they are to protect. Are there a million pissed off reprobates? Of course but they are a tiny percentage of the protected population.

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15 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Public heath regulations are not just against you myata, they are to help the public, uublic management as you put it.

As any governance they can be misused and abused. Absence of accountability, effective recourse and independent oversight is obvious here and repeating non-arguments ad infinitum won't change it. This is a clear path to authoritarianism. You aren't adding anything to the discussion guessing because there's nothing you can add.

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49 minutes ago, myata said:

As any governance they can be misused and abused. Absence of accountability, effective recourse and independent oversight is obvious here and repeating non-arguments ad infinitum won't change it. This is a clear path to authoritarianism. 

Yup.

I have expressed my opinion. It is an opinion and I don't have to defend it. Don't need to add any more. You are to one that keeps trying to force your opinion upon me, repeatedly.

I am not an agnotology student but some of your (and those of some others) posts really baffle me.

Edited by ExFlyer
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