myata Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: Our Senate I like your optimism but. The Senate is deeply entrenched in the status quo and won't do anything even if it could do much, that I don't think it could. 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: GG/Queen can act if it’s deemed that the government is working against the people, violating their rights and freedoms A foreign monarch, and their figurehead representative as an effective check on the executive power? Apologies but it just doesn't sound serious. It does not seem plausible that a single individual, any one however called or entitled can be effective in such a role. It can be a symbol or token of independent (if) checks and accountability. But can it be the real, working one? 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: The Supreme Court must respond to constitutional challenges For the judicial branch to be effective as a check it has to be timely. Legal challenged to mandates in the US went through courts in less than a year. It serves nothing if a reaction takes years or decades even, only to reinforce a perception of no accountability, free executive hand. An all too familiar pattern in the country. 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: Also, let’s not underestimate the power of people. The truckers are part of a bigger movement, I can agree here. But any ground movement is not structured. It can stop a current, ongoing abuse of power but it cannot create effective mechanisms to prevent the future ones. As a last resort it can work we will see. But as a current, effective instrument of a modern responsible democracy? Less certain. Edited January 31, 2022 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Boges said: IIRC that was mandating that all companies with a certain number of employees need to mandate vaccines mandating by Federal Occupational Health and Safety. Nor have the border mandates been lifted from what I understand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, West said: To note, Dr. Christian is one of the two cardiologists in Saskatchewan and former president for some statistics organizations. He says mycoarditis is never "mild" as the press is reporting and the heart is one of the organs that doesn't repair itself very well. Any injuries to the heart are likely lifelong. Yes. When it was reported that over a 100 children now had myocarditis from the jabs, it distressed many people. Stats are that 50% of them will die of it in the next 5-6 years. Even if we are generous and say only 30% will die - that's 30 children. More than have died from covid in 2 years. And that's just Toronto. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 hour ago, blackbird said: No such thing as unlimited rights of the individual; never has been. Leftists make the claim that a woman has "the right" to kill a healthy, viable fetus. Now they're also making the claim that a woman has to vaccinate her own child in order to protect them from a virus that won't harm them. The difference between what leftists want to the laws to be and what's morally acceptable is visible from space. Leftists are basically amoral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, West said: The government HAS mandated vaccines to enter restaurants and for air travel within the country. Both violate mobility rights. I look forward to the course case that argues that. Where are mobility rights enshrined in the constitution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, Boges said: They why have these Truckers been allowed to squat for 3 days? That’s your criteria for freedom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) A lot of folks on here obviously reject the science and medical experts on the battle against Covid. For once I agree with Trudeau that they need to listen to the science. Absolutely nobody will be convinced by the so-called freedom convoy. It is full of loud mouth, aggressive, rude, people who have no idea what peaceful protest means. They protested on Friday, Saturday and made their point, but they don't quit. They are making the lives of people living in Ottawa miserable because they are blocking roads, refusing to leave, acting aggressively, and not letting people go downtown, not letting people go to work in those areas or go about their business. This is a clear sign of what kind of people we are dealing with. Demanding, unreasonable anarchists breaking the law by parking many trucks and other vehicles everywhere far beyond the time limit and refusing to leave. They also are honking their horns continuously as if this sends some kind of rational message. Disturbing the peace continually. They are abusive and have no respect for others. They think they can browbeat the government into submission this way. Tragic. Edited January 31, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: That’s your criteria for freedom? Under a totalitarian regime, that certainly wouldn't fly. Words matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) The answer to constitutionality is in the arbitrary nature of the restrictions. Any democratic law, rule, policy cannot be arbitrary. It has to be necessary; effective; and proportional. Otherwise it would be entirely constitutional for a PM to mandate you wear a clown hat on Thursdays and a muzzle Sundays 2 to 5 pm. And not at some remote moment, for a minute but at any time while it is in place. None of that can be supported for the mandates, obviously. But of course, for judicial challenges to be effective as a check on executive power they have to be timely. It serves nothing to have these challenges drag for years and decades. Only another parody or imitation of a working democracy. Edited January 31, 2022 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, West said: Section 6.2 Well, as this protest has proven. Citizen's can certainly drive across the country. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, myata said: The answer to constitutionality is in the arbitrary nature of the restrictions. Any democratic law, rule, policy cannot be arbitrary. It has to be necessary; effective; and proportional. Otherwise it would be entirely constitutional for a PM to mandate you wear a clown hat on Thursdays and a muzzle Sundays 2 to 5 pm. And not at some remote moment, for a minute but at any time while it is in place. None of that can be supported for the mandates, obviously. But of course, for judicial challenges to be effective as a check on executive power they have to be timely. It serves nothing to have these challenges drag for years and decades. Only another parody or imitation of a working democracy. You still don't get it. The health restrictions and mandates are perfectly Constitutional because the Government has the power to take whatever action is necessary to protect the people in an health emergency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 10 minutes ago, myata said: I like your optimism but. The Senate is deeply entrenched in the status quo and won't do anything even if it could do much, that I don't think it could. A foreign monarch, and their figurehead representative as an effective check on the executive power? Apologies but it just doesn't sound serious. It does not seem plausible that a single individual, any one however called or entitled can be effective in such a role. It can be a symbol or token of independent (if) checks and accountability. But can it be the real, working one? For the judicial branch to be effective as a check it has to be timely. Legal challenged to mandates in the US went through courts in less than a year. It serves nothing if a reaction takes years or decades even, only to reinforce a perception of no accountability, free executive hand. An all too familiar pattern in the country. I can agree here. But any ground movement is not structured. It can stop a current, ongoing abuse of power but it cannot create effective mechanisms to prevent the future ones. As a last resort it can work we will see. But as a current, effective instrument of a modern responsible democracy? Less certain. Well we’ve seen the results of mass protests to overturn totalitarian regimes in Eastern Europe and how civil rights marches have overturned discriminatory policies in the US. My sense is that Canada has a de facto one party system right now, because anyone who opposes the violation of our Charter is cast by the PMO and state-funded media as a moronic extremist biohazard. Smart, inquisitive people are calling it out, but Trudeau has Biden and China in his corner. Trudeau doesn’t care about our constitutional protections. He has abdicated our sovereignty by putting our government policy in the hands of an international public health body. Chrétien never would’ve done this. He understood the importance of exceptionalism to protect Canadian values. The Brits would never do this either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Tom Quiggin - not an organizer but definitely an associate of the organizers. See Tweet below. He writes and has appeared at events with Lich et al. 2. I acknowledge that reporting facts is essential and to report a falsehood is a lie. I'm still looking for the 'lie' vs the admitted bias. The distrust is also building with people who buy into traditional journalism who are getting sick of the 'both sides' style reporting that these things get (reference to Trump's Charlottesville comment not an implication of the protesters here) 1. His actions did not promote their main objective, it had the opposite effect, the media is looking for any reason to down play or discredit the convoy, like the discretion of Canada's national hero, "he was wrapped in a Canadian flag and a ball cap with a sign" the women that stood on the Unknown soldiers tomb and shouted freedom did so for a brief few seconds, and while disrespectful she is facing criminal investigation. In both cases members of the same convoy placed flowers and had a small vigil at both sites as a sign of respect. What we tend to forget is this protest is pretty mild in comparison to BLM protests, which were not vilified as much as this one... 2. note these are not misleading but rather out right lies. My favorite is the Russian angle by the Public safety minister....Because of our support to Ukraine, do we really think Canada is a world player, our creditability was used up years ago... Moscow does not even give us a second thought, We are like that little barking dog, that won't shut up it just annoys everyone. Here is a few lies that i found. Quote Here is the latest one from CBC, EX PM Martin communications director, now CBC employee has stated that this convoy was invited to Ottawa by the Conservatives and the blame belongs in their court. Quote According to the CBC, "The rally, organized by the West Coast Trucking Association, made its way from Surrey to Vancouver Saturday afternoon, in hopes of bringing awareness to the icy and dangerous road conditions truckers say they've had to deal with this winter season." Quote . First, this entire week the CBC, Toronto Star – Yahoo News were retweeting and reposting with a few others – kept putting stories out that our GoFundMe was frozen or suspended because of nefarious reasons. You know “right-wing truckers,” “dangerous people,” and it was hysterical, me and Tamara were talking. Quote The CBC is promoting a conspiracy theory that the Russian government is behind the Freedom Convoy. In an interview on Friday with Canada's public safety minister, Marco Mendicino, CBC host Nil Koksal suggested that meddlers from Moscow might be the true progenitors of the Freedom Convoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Boges said: Well, as this protest has proven. Citizen's can certainly drive across the country. Not for long. No vaccine passport, no interprovincial travel if the Liberals pass their next fascist directive on trucker vaccination. Edited January 31, 2022 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 21 minutes ago, Boges said: I look forward to the course case that argues that. Where are mobility rights enshrined in the constitution? 'Mobility rights' aren't anything in the Charter from what I have heard. You don't have a right to travel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: Not for long. No vaccine passport, no interprovincial travel if the Liberals pass their next fascist directive on trucker vaccination. Atlantic Province have been "bubbling" since the beginning of the pandemic. If the Liberals do pass a vaccine mandate for Truckers crossing the Province, it's not an infringement on mobility, it's a restriction on employment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: 'Mobility rights' aren't anything in the Charter from what I have heard. You don't have a right to travel... Okay you’re way out of your depth. Watch the Peterson interview with Peckford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 Just now, Boges said: Atlantic Province have been "bubbling" since the beginning of the pandemic. If the Liberals do pass a vaccine mandate for Truckers crossing the Province, it's not an infringement on mobility, it's a restriction on employment. Who are you? Are you really a Canadian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 Just now, Zeitgeist said: Who are you? Are you really a Canadian? Excellent rebuttal. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 Defending restrictions and mandates is the full-time job of our federal government now. Good, the Liberals are branding themselves as the Oppression Party. Untenable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Okay you’re way out of your depth. Watch the Peterson interview with Peckford. Peterson is out of his depth... on everything... Rather than point me to a video - just cite me a case where somebody sued to win "mobility rights" in a similar case and won. Shouldn't be hard if we have 'mobility rights'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, West said: Governments can't just do whatever they feel is necessary. That line of thinking is what led to internment camps which are now recognized as being immoral and violation of rights They can - and the courts will rule if it's challenged. The government listens on your phone calls and the left indicated that this was the start of autocratic rule... 10 years ago... Please everybody stop wetting yourself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Defending restrictions and mandates is the full-time job of our federal government now. Good, the Liberals are branding themselves as the Oppression Party. Untenable. Ackchyually!!!! Most restrictions come from Provincial governments. Edited January 31, 2022 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 Just now, Michael Hardner said: Peterson is out of his depth... on everything... Rather than point me to a video - just cite me a case where somebody sued to win "mobility rights" in a similar case and won. Shouldn't be hard if we have 'mobility rights'... Peckford himself says it. Lazy. You think you’re more of an authority than the former senator who penned our Charter protections. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Good, the Liberals are branding themselves as the Oppression Party. Untenable. Ackchyually!!!! The pro vaccine position helped them in September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.