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1 hour ago, Winston said:

Since 80% of the ICU is covid patients, would it be okay to have asymptomatic staff, care for symptomatic covid patients? 

Fundamentally they have the same issue, but are in a different health state. This could even be applied to the unvaccinated staff.

Also staff that are covid clear care for patients who are covid clear. 

They already got COVID dude. You just typed it.  What is the issue of having a staff member that has COVID if the patient already has it?

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11 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Or we could start by providing enough housing for the elderly who need LTC. That would take pressure off hospitals that are being used to house the overflow. Up to 25% of beds are being used for seniors.

But nahh. Lets keep making sad excuses why we cannot do things.

Like sorry, we dont have the money. (burp)

Or be a brave, courageous person! Stay home at all costs.

That will help.

Experts such as François Legault and Justin Trudeau say it so it must be true.

Edited by QuebecOverCanada
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35 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Yes everyone is effected, but what action are we as a nation doing about it. The US is having a chip manufacture plant built in the US, did we jump on that train, nope...Instead we offer Canadians more CERB, for some reason, i mean Justin has already said everyone put out of work is now back, unemployment has dropped greatly... and yet if everyone is back to work who are we paying CERB to,

Even the large manufacturer are having labor shortages, what program is there to put these people back to work. Top it all off the price of fuel is sky rocketed driving the price of everything out of control, of course climate change taxes or other federal taxes has nothing to do with that. so no relief in that direction either...as for the drivers, has the government even offed incentives to get vaccinated, nothing except mandate things that so far are not working...

 

The US already has chip manufacturing, Intel etc but most of the specialized automotive chips come from outside of the US. Intel doesn't make them nor it does the capability at this point. Taiwan Semiconductor is one of the biggest manufacturers of automotive chips. 60 Minutes did a segment on it a few months ago. The president of Taiwan Semiconductor said that when the auto industry started cutting back production at the beginning of Covid, the chip manufacturers switched production to other types of chips and now car manufacturers are wanting to up production it takes almost a year for the chip manufacturers to fully switch back. So what if the US is building more capacity, it will do nothing to fix the current shortage. 

Who wants to make chips in Canada? Should we offer big incentives for companies to come here or form a bunch of crown corps to make them. Can we be competitive in world chip manufacturing without having to subsidize the crap out of companies? Remember Bombardier?

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1 hour ago, Aristides said:

It makes a hell of a lot of difference if they are seriously ill with something else and the staff gives them Covid on top of what they have already.

Here's something that makes sense actually. No, exposing weakened, possibly very ill to even a mild highly infectious disease probably is not a great idea. But then, a totally wrong conclusion: we have to do something blah blah to everyone to create an appearance of busy activity, instead of finding real and effective solutions to real problems.

For 98% of Canadians, Covid is a flu or common cold. The numbers are here and it's impossible to deny. Countries lift all restrictions because it's no longer possible to deny. And it's stupid obvious that anyone with a grain of common sense would be investing not into let's defeat it forever brainless ads (yes common cold is still with us after Heavens know how many years, or centuries?) but into two real problems:

a) how to protect those who need protection: note, it means effectively and reliably not wink-wink, honk-honk fingers crossed and hope for the best, and

b) how to treat those who need help effectively with the best outcome.

That's all that anyone with grain of intelligence would be looking at for what now, two years? And where have you looked, and what's done? Have you come up, in two years and two decades from SARS with anything, anything at all new but honking and winking? Because the entitlements let me guess, do not depend in any way on the actual results, demonstrable and proven, but on honking and winking, not so?

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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Or we could start by providing enough housing for the elderly who need LTC. That would take pressure off hospitals that are being used to house the overflow. Up to 25% of beds are being used for seniors.

Sounds good, we could also ease some of that pressure by helping seniors stay in their homes as long as possible - it's something a lot of them are planning for and would rather do in the wake of the disaster COVID caused in LTC housing.

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But nahh. Lets keep making sad excuses why we cannot do things.

Like sorry, we dont have the money. (burp)

According to these guys there's more money than ever. 

Quote

The world is wealthier than ever. According to Mckinsey’s report, global assets grew from $440 trillion (approximately 13 times GDP) in 2000 to $1,540 trillion in 2020, while net worth increased from $160 trillion to over $510 trillion. This figure includes real estate prices, equity market prices, exchange rates, natural resources, human resources, as well as capital and technological advancements that may create new assets or render others worthless in the coming years.

https://www.rankred.com/how-much-money-is-there-in-the-world/

There are asteroids out in space worth more than all the above too.

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56 minutes ago, myata said:

Here's something that makes sense actually. No, exposing weakened, possibly very ill to even a mild highly infectious disease probably is not a great idea. But then, a totally wrong conclusion: we have to do something blah blah to everyone to create an appearance of busy activity, instead of finding real and effective solutions to real problems.

For 98% of Canadians, Covid is a flu or common cold. The numbers are here and it's impossible to deny. Countries lift all restrictions because it's no longer possible to deny. And it's stupid obvious that anyone with a grain of common sense would be investing not into let's defeat it forever brainless ads (yes common cold is still with us after Heavens know how many years, or centuries?) but into two real problems:

a) how to protect those who need protection: note, it means effectively and reliably not wink-wink, honk-honk fingers crossed and hope for the best, and

b) how to treat those who need help effectively with the best outcome.

That's all that anyone with grain of intelligence would be looking at for what now, two years? And where have you looked, and what's done? Have you come up, in two years and two decades from SARS with anything, anything at all new but honking and winking? Because the entitlements let me guess, do not depend in any way on the actual results, demonstrable and proven, but on honking and winking, not so?

Hospitals are already saying the because of large numbers of ER and ICU staff being infected they are having to move in personnel who are not trained in those positions.

You don't want people with infectious diseases in those positions period, even if it is just a common cold. 

You can shoulda, coulda, woulda after the fact all you want but that is the reality.

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More fear-mongering.  You have reason to be afraid, but it’s got nothing to do with getting sick from Covid-19.

Read “Why technology Favours Tyranny”, a 2018 article by Yuval Noah Harari.  It predicts the “digital dictatorship” that’s unfolding.  We can either resign ourselves to being controlled by systems or we can remember that systems are there to serve humanity.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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1 hour ago, Aristides said:

You can shoulda, coulda, woulda after the fact all you want but that is the reality.

Because in two decades you spent uncounted public billions on yourself, produced no improvements, no intelligent effective solutions, just kept alive a system in a permanent state of semi-crisis and so now everyone has to keep rolling their sleeves to let you keep doing such a great job? How much sense would that make, honestly and objectively?

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1 hour ago, myata said:

Because in two decades you spent uncounted public billions on yourself, produced no improvements, no intelligent effective solutions, just kept alive a system in a permanent state of semi-crisis and so now everyone has to keep rolling their sleeves to let you keep doing such a great job? How much sense would that make, honestly and objectively?

How about a few effective solutions then, other than firing administrators and whining, because that's all I hear from you.

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

More fear-mongering.  You have reason to be afraid, but it’s got nothing to do with getting sick from Covid-19.

Read “Why technology Favours Tyranny”, a 2018 article by Yuval Noah Harari.  It predicts the “digital dictatorship” that’s unfolding.  We can either resign ourselves to being controlled by systems or we can remember that systems are there to serve humanity.  

Talking to a local cop. He says in his 15 years he has never seen the ER in our regional hospital this bad. Not even close. Wards closed because of Covid, everything stacking up in ER's operating with a large  number of their staff infected or isolating.

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5 hours ago, Aristides said:

 

The US already has chip manufacturing, Intel etc but most of the specialized automotive chips come from outside of the US. Intel doesn't make them nor it does the capability at this point. Taiwan Semiconductor is one of the biggest manufacturers of automotive chips. 60 Minutes did a segment on it a few months ago. The president of Taiwan Semiconductor said that when the auto industry started cutting back production at the beginning of Covid, the chip manufacturers switched production to other types of chips and now car manufacturers are wanting to up production it takes almost a year for the chip manufacturers to fully switch back. So what if the US is building more capacity, it will do nothing to fix the current shortage. 

Who wants to make chips in Canada? Should we offer big incentives for companies to come here or form a bunch of crown corps to make them. Can we be competitive in world chip manufacturing without having to subsidize the crap out of companies? Remember Bombardier?

Atleast they are planning for the future, like we are suppose to do with PPE, Some medical equipment, and medication manufacture, have you heard anything about that lately...

Anything would be better than what we have now right ? Moving manufacturing back to North America is a good thing regardless of how this effects the over all problem. Sometimes it's not about being competitive it is about survival as a nation in a crises. 

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7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Atleast they are planning for the future, like we are suppose to do with PPE, Some medical equipment, and medication manufacture, have you heard anything about that lately...

Anything would be better than what we have now right ? Moving manufacturing back to North America is a good thing regardless of how this effects the over all problem. Sometimes it's not about being competitive it is about survival as a nation in a crises. 

I agree but how much of a premium are North Americans prepared to pay to buy local. One problem we have that the US doesn't is our domestic market isn't large enough to support many of these industries without exporting.

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4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I agree but how much of a premium are North Americans prepared to pay to buy local. One problem we have that the US doesn't is our domestic market isn't large enough to support many of these industries without exporting.

The chips thing is just going to grow, remember climate change and converting to EV vehs, more power plants etc etc.... We just spent 350 bil and we are going to add a shit ton more, you think we can't pay the premium, or do we still need to rely on foreign supply chains to in much need medical machines, PPE, our own vital medication supply. the pandemic has shown the weakness of the global supply chain, and what most government will do to ensure domestic supply is first and foremost. there is no reason we can not take a lesson learned here and put some measures in place to prevent future crises, this is not our first pandemic you think we should have learned something...

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2 hours ago, Aristides said:

Talking to a local cop. He says in his 15 years he has never seen the ER in our regional hospital this bad. Not even close. Wards closed because of Covid, everything stacking up in ER's operating with a large  number of their staff infected or isolating.

We’re okay.  We’ll adjust as needed.  Got it covered.  Canucks can live freely, end all restrictions.  Looking forward to spring.

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7 hours ago, Aristides said:

Talking to a local cop. He says in his 15 years he has never seen the ER in our regional hospital this bad. Not even close. Wards closed because of Covid, everything stacking up in ER's operating with a large  number of their staff infected or isolating.

Infected or isolating is only an issue because we decided it is.  If people aren’t sick they shouldn’t be isolating.   ICU’s aren’t full.  

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9 hours ago, Aristides said:

He says in his 15 years he has never seen the ER in our regional hospital this bad.

Wait, could scare and hysteria pumped over 24 months non-stop and counting, combined with a system in permanently "crumbling" state have anything to do with it? Who is to blame here, some nasty scapegoats we all know who they are (thanks for the tips) or those who were paid, over decades, often absurd compensations to have a modern effective system in full preparedness (after two decades of warnings) for a possible pandemic?

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2 hours ago, myata said:

Who is to blame here, some nasty scapegoats we all know who they are (thanks for the tips) or those who were paid, over decades, often absurd compensations to have a modern effective system in full preparedness (after two decades of warnings) for a possible pandemic?

Here's your answer.

Why Ontario was a sitting duck for COVID-19

People in Ontario haven’t repeatedly endured some of the world’s most severe and longest pandemic lockdowns because of the unvaccinated. The lockdowns keep happening because of the almost non-existent surge capacity of Ontario hospitals, a problem that has been known about for decades and which governments of all political stripes ignored.

Canada is in 25th place out of 26 developed nations with universal or near-universal health-care systems comparable to our own, in our number of acute care hospital beds — 2.1 per 1,000 population.

Ontario, which spends 42 cents out of every dollar on health care — the province’s largest single expenditure by far — fares even worse.

But it isn’t just a lack of beds that’s the problem. According to the Canadian Institute for Health Information, Ontario had the highest administrative costs for health care in the country for 2019-20, just before the pandemic hit — 5.7% of total expenditures, a third higher than the Canada-wide provincial average of 4.3%.

What I've said before... this is the result of hiring rich people's kids into cushy hospital administrator positions. Nice, life-long jobs starting at $100k/ year for junior position.

Aye, there's the rub.   ;)

 

The real problems need to be talked about and solutions offered up. Otherwise you'll get nothing but more of these irrational and hurtful mandates.

Government needs to be kept in a little box, indoors, and not allowed out.

 

Edited by OftenWrong
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5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Ontario, which spends 42 cents out of every dollar on health care — the province’s largest single expenditure by far — fares even worse.

And that is, sadly, not even a remote surprise. Without checks and controls, a bureaucracy running free and wild will be spending all, as much as it can get hands on, on itself producing as little in real results as it can possibly get away with. Just watch it.

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4 minutes ago, myata said:

And that is, sadly, not even a remote surprise. Without checks and controls, a bureaucracy running free and wild will be spending all, as much as it can get hands on, on itself producing as little in real results as it can possibly get away with. Just watch it.

Yes, but blame the unvaccinated who should be fired from work, fined and even possibly jailed.

As my wife points out, well at least in jail they get their meals, free health care gym and internet. Even a university education...

Edited by OftenWrong
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An isolated, self-absorbed and self-managed bureaucratic Gargantua making its own rules for the society no checks controls or even meaningful explanation. Now it's going to inject everyone at will. Almost there. What's next, plan and stage and entitlement? Anyone wants to guess?

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

The infringements on freedoms for the vast majority of Canadians are unprecedented in Canada.

On the parallels, for whatever they are worth, there's an essential difference. The rise of the Nazi regime in Germany was caused by a prolonged, devastating economical and political crisis following WWI and Great Depression. There's no such reasons in Canada. There's no existential threats or crises other than those that the bureaucracy created itself. The only reason for authoritarian management and measures appears to be: because it can. Because there's nothing, at all, whatsoever that could detect, check and prevent unnecessary and unreasonable transgressions.

Edited by myata
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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

What I've said before... this is the result of hiring rich people's kids into cushy hospital administrator positions. Nice, life-long jobs starting at $100k/ year for junior position.

Aye, there's the rub.   ;)

 

The real problems need to be talked about and solutions offered up. Otherwise you'll get nothing but more of these irrational and hurtful mandates.

Good luck with it.  I've been trying to talk about this for nearly 25 years now.  

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Government needs to be kept in a little box, indoors, and not allowed out.

No, we just need to be allowed in is all.  The little box you just described sounds a lot like the little smoke-filled rooms where rich people meet in secret private with the government.

So I've been suggesting for years now that we outlaw in-camera lobbying.  I mostly get irrationally associated with mass murdering psychopathic dictators for my trouble - it is what it is.

Some people seem to think I'm attacking the free speech rights of their betters and they don't like it one bit.

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