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Quebec introducing a Canadian first, taxing the unvaccinated.


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57 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

That's pretty much all these qanon Mooks can manage.  A deep thought for them is reddit/4dchan copypasta...something about freedom and DeEp StaTe and da media etc etc...

It's an absolute race to the bottom for these clowns.  

You seem to set up an opposition to mock and tear down, but I don’t think most of the people on here that you’re trying to characterize a certain way have looked at any of this stuff as more than a curiosity or taken any of it seriously.  Focus on particular arguments and explain why they’re invalid.  Support with evidence.  We already know the pro-restriction and mandate arguments because they’re pervasive in media and government communiques.  The main purpose of this forum, I think, is to challenge the dominant narratives in order to hold politicians to account and ensure they’re getting it right.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

You seem to set up an opposition to mock and tear down, but I don’t think most of the people on here that you’re trying to characterize a certain way have looked at any of this stuff as more than a curiosity or taken any of it seriously.  Focus on particular arguments and explain why they’re invalid.  Support with evidence.  We already know the pro-restriction and mandate arguments because they’re pervasive in media and government communiques.  The main purpose of this forum, I think, is to challenge the dominant narratives in order to hold politicians to account and ensure they’re getting it right.  

the politicians view our challenging of the dominant narratives the same way that moonbox does

they listen to him, they don't listen to us

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13 hours ago, Aristides said:

Equating todays restrictions with some of the world's greatest mass murders

No, you aren't getting it naively and sincerely or otherwise. The problem is not with "murderers", an isolated murderer is only one or a few individuals. The problem is with ideology, ideologies that seeks to select, set against, dehumanize, raise and stoke fear and hate. There are very few lines and limits such an ideology could not and would not cross (eventually; for an example see "residential schools", for the common good isolate and educate "them", barbarians). And those who execute it, how they should be called, referred to? They only believed that they were told and did what they were told to. Isn't that only human?

Edited by myata
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18 hours ago, Colin Norris said:

As for the virus being a scam, God give me strength. It's hard to imagine fools are still out there believing it. 

Not saying it's a scam, per se, but world population has increased the same as normal during this pandemic.

PS

Really hope you figure out the quote box soon. :)

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14 hours ago, Aristides said:

Equating todays restrictions with some of the world's greatest mass murders and antivaxxers with their victims is about as ignorant as you can get.

Unless you are a holocaust survivor or related to one, you don't speak for them.

Many, many holocaust survivors have come out and warned that they see the exact same things going on - the demonization of a certain segment of society, the call to "do something" about these people, the blaming of public health issues on these same people, the restrictions for only these people, etc.

The holocaust started long before the gas chambers.  There were steps in play to get the citizenry inured and apathetic and on board with all of this.

We are following those steps and you are celebrating it.

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17 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Unless you are a holocaust survivor or related to one, you don't speak for them.

Many, many holocaust survivors have come out and warned that they see the exact same things going on - the demonization of a certain segment of society, the call to "do something" about these people, the blaming of public health issues on these same people, the restrictions for only these people, etc.

The holocaust started long before the gas chambers.  There were steps in play to get the citizenry inured and apathetic and on board with all of this.

We are following those steps and you are celebrating it.

You say you can't speak for them and immediately try to speak for them? You can't exactly do that without a cite.

Like these, which is all I could find. But curiously they say the opposite. 

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/holocaust-survivor-denounces-french-protesters-who-compared-covid-19-vaccines-to-nazi-horrors/

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/holocaust-survivors-vaccine-philadelphia-coronavirus-20210816.html

https://moked.it/international/2021/08/02/holocaust-survivor-liliana-segres-words-shed-light-on-anti-vaxxers-hatred/

 

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12 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Yup, some disagree.  Lots don't.  MSM isn't going to show you the ones who feel we are going down dark paths right  n ow, are they?  But I've seen many many comments on articles from holocaust survivors, relatives of survivors and people who came to Canada to flee communist countries who are deeply afraid of what they are seeing in Canada right now.

Imagine that?

Not everyone agrees with everything. :)

Edit:  All I said was that not all holocaust survivors think the demonization of one segment of society means nothing at all.  Many see similarities. Enough to be disturbed about what is going on.

Edited by Goddess
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9 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

You're speaking for them again. You can avoid that by citing original sources 

That's okay.

If you want to believe that ALL holocaust survivors see no similarities, that's what you're going to believe.  No amount of cites would convince you that there are ones who see similarities and ones who don't.

Why aren't you asking Aristedes for evidence that ALL holocaust victims feel the same?  Why?  Because he's saying what you want to hear, so not cites necessary.

I acknowledge they don't all see what's going on as innocent.  

You're the ones claiming they all feel the same way.

So let's see your cites.

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12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The main purpose of this forum, I think, is to challenge the dominant narratives in order to hold politicians to account and ensure they’re getting it right.  

The main purpose of this forum is to reasonably discuss political issues, or at least it was 12 years ago when I originally started.  Screeching conspiracy slogans and 4dchan copypasta is a waste of everyone's time.  Those arguments are circuitous and dead-on-arrival, relying on nothing more than delusional insistence that everything contradictory to them is a lie. 

The funniest thing about what this forum has become is that years ago I was considered one of the more earnest righties and usually got in arguments with dudes like eyeball about economic and social issues.  Now I'm bizarrely a member of the "Lefties" and rather than talking about real politics and specific issues, these threads are inevitably flooded with buffoonery about media or WHO conspiracies.

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22 minutes ago, Goddess said:

That's okay.

If you want to believe that ALL holocaust survivors see no similarities, that's what you're going to believe.  No amount of cites would convince you that there are ones who see similarities and ones who don't.

Why aren't you asking Aristedes for evidence that ALL holocaust victims feel the same?  Why?  Because he's saying what you want to hear, so not cites necessary.

I acknowledge they don't all see what's going on as innocent.  

You're the ones claiming they all feel the same way.

So let's see your cites.

You are very bad at reading between the lines. It's almost delusional. Where did I say they all feel the same way? I said the original sources I found were consistent (and I provided THREE cites). Then I asked you to provide a sampling of where you're getting your information from.

Because you were the one saying no one can speak for Holocaust victims but themselves (and I agree). Hence the three cites.

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On 1/15/2022 at 10:40 PM, eyeball said:

What untruths?  Like you say the numbers are given and seen everywhere...everyday...day after day.  How can you even ask such a thing?

 

I saw this article and immediately thought how this is a great example of trash media. This one ICU has 70% unvaxxed...sure, its probably statistically true however the overall numbers in Ontario don't lie and they say roughly 50% are unvaxxed. So if one hospital has 70% in it then either every other hospital has more vaxxed to make make up the difference OR other single hospitals have a large vaxxed percentage. Reporting on one hospital is just poor journalism. 

Like you said, this hospital may take up some of the worst cases but now that is a subjective spin that isn't answered by numbers. 

On 1/15/2022 at 10:40 PM, eyeball said:

B.C. COVID-19 vaccines: Unvaccinated 12 times more likely to ...

  • 1 day ago  CTV National News: Hospitals on the brink ... hospitalization due to COVID-19 compared to people who are vaccinated in the same age group.

 Again...they are playing with numbers by choosing the parameter you want. The truth is written on their website. When you take the province as a whole, the rate of hospitalization for unvaxxed is 53.8 and the rate for fully vaxxed is 10.6 which means the unvaxxed are 5.07 X more likely to be in a hospital (at this time).  Their statement says 12X difference in their own age group, so maybe that is true in a certain few age groups but statistically speaking if this is true then there must be a shit ton of vaxxed cases in OTHER AGE GROUPS in order to balance out the whole and give a complete number of 5.07X.  

Also...as I posted to another member here, this number of 5.07 was around 7 last week and up around 40-50 a month ago. This comparative rate continues to drop and could potentially show little to no difference in hospitalizations  among vaxx status. 

Past two weeks, cases hospitalized per 100,000 population after adjusting for age (Dec. 30 to Jan. 12)

  • Not vaccinated: 53.8
  • Partially vaccinated: 26.9
  • Fully vaccinated: 10.6

 

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41 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

You are very bad at reading between the lines. It's almost delusional. Where did I say they all feel the same way? I said the original sources I found were consistent (and I provided THREE cites). Then I asked you to provide a sampling of where you're getting your information from.

Because you were the one saying no one can speak for Holocaust victims but themselves (and I agree). Hence the three cites.

I'm not sure what you're after, since we both agree that not ALL holocaust survivors think the covid restrictions and demonization of a segment of society is benign.  

I suspect that you are unconcerned with the feeling of those holocaust survivors who disagree with you and you are just after seeking to discount them.

Nevertheless, here are 2 cites that I have time to find FOR YOU.  Sorry, but that's what I have time for today.  The first two links.  The second link quotes a few survivors who have concerns.  Due to the massive censorship going on right now, even these holocaust survivors are being silenced.

As I said, I read most of the comments in news articles and have seen many comments from survivors and relatives of survivors who express great concern about the path Canada has chosen to go down.  The fact that you have no problem demonizing and restricting freedoms of others speaks volumes about your morality and motives for rejecting these survivors' concerns.

We either learn from history or we are doomed to repeat it, yes?

Holocaust Survivor Warns COVID-19 Measures Similar To Nazi Germany’s Subjugation Policies | Citizens Journal

Comparing coronavirus vaccines to the Holocaust | Varda Spiegel | The Blogs (timesofisrael.com)

 

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Just now, BubberMiley said:

I can see why you're reluctant to provide citations when all you can come up with is a wingnut antivax site and the Times of Israel chastising one guy for making a comparison to the Holocaust. :lol:

Yes, I fully expected that response from you.

And in record time, you rejected their feelings and concerns.

Well done.

Your masters must be so proud of you.

 

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

The main purpose of this forum is to reasonably discuss political issues, or at least it was 12 years ago when I originally started.  Screeching conspiracy slogans and 4dchan copypasta is a waste of everyone's time.  Those arguments are circuitous and dead-on-arrival, relying on nothing more than delusional insistence that everything contradictory to them is a lie. 

The funniest thing about what this forum has become is that years ago I was considered one of the more earnest righties and usually got in arguments with dudes like eyeball about economic and social issues.  Now I'm bizarrely a member of the "Lefties" and rather than talking about real politics and specific issues, these threads are inevitably flooded with buffoonery about media or WHO conspiracies.

No, I think you’re bringing a lot of naivety to the discussion.  I’m not right wing, I haven’t watched a single QAnon broadcast, and I’m cynical about conspiracy theories.  I can’t be taciturn about the extreme measures imposed on the population to fight a virus that has a mild impact on the vast majority of people after enduring multiple lockdowns, vaccinations, mandates, vax passports, and continued masking and restrictions.  I don’t know how any sane, rational person who believes in basic democratic freedoms and principles can watch all this persist into year three without vocal opposition.

The apparent inability to change our circumstances is very disturbing.  I’ve always supported US Democrats and I was a member of the Liberal Party of Canada in the Chrétien era.  Now I hope to God that someone like DeSantis becomes President and that a gutsy federal leader appears in Canada to push back against this clearly international totalitarian consensus.  If you can’t see what’s right in front of you, I can’t help you. 

Edited by Zeitgeist
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5 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yes, I fully expected that response from you.

And in record time, you rejected their feelings and concerns.

Well done.

Your masters must be so proud of you.

 

I reject your wingnut antivax source. Chrome really didn't want to load it (but it eventually did). That's not a good sign.

I also agreed with your Times of Israel source. Comparing public health measures to the Holocaust is a shitty thing to do. That's why Holocaust survivors are pretty much universally calling it out as such (see my citations).

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4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I use Duck Duck Go because they don't censor the articles based on what the government doesn't want you to know like Google does.

May I suggest to think of it the opposite way. 

google/Facebook/twitter ect controls what people see and what ideologies are prevalent in society. This does not necessary mean they all agree about all issues.

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

No, I think you’re bringing a lot of naivety to the discussion.  I’m not right wing, I haven’t watched a single QAnon broadcast, and I’m cynical about conspiracy theories.  I can’t be taciturn about the extreme measures imposed on the population to fight a virus that has a mild impact on the vast majority of people after enduring multiple lockdowns, vaccinations, mandates, vax passports, and continued masking and restrictions.  I don’t know how any sane, rational person who believes in basic democratic freedoms and principles can watch all this persist into year three without vocal opposition.

The apparent inability to change our circumstances is very disturbing.  I’ve always supported US Democrats and I was a member of the Liberal Party of Canada in the Chrétien era.  Now I hope to God that someone like DeSantis becomes President and that a gutsy federal leader appears in Canada to push back against this clearly international totalitarian consensus.  If you can’t see what’s right in front of you, I can’t help you. 

At this point I've soured on lockdowns as well.  I don't support them anymore and think they're doing far more harm than good.  On the other hand, I'd rather an overly-cautious and self-righteous wannabe like Trudeau go through the process and let it last too long than for an amoral demagogue like DeSantis to be in charge of anything.  

When I started reading your post I sort of though "hey maybe this guy is reasonable" but then you finished it off with nonsense about international totalitarian consensus and I realized this was just thinly disguised reddit hyperbole-copypasta.  

Edited by Moonbox
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18 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

At this point I've soured on lockdowns as well.  I don't support them anymore and think they're doing far more harm than good.  On the other hand, I'd rather an overly-cautious and self-righteous wannabe like Trudeau go through the process and let it last too long than for an amoral demagogue like DeSantis to be in charge of anything.  

When I started reading your post I sort of though "hey maybe this guy is reasonable" but then you finished it off with nonsense about international totalitarian consensus and I realized this was just thinly disguised reddit hyperbole-copypasta.  

I don’t go on Reddit and yes, Canada has little discretion or is too afraid of running afoul of the international consensus on pandemic measures.  This isn’t some reference to Soros or the Davos Agenda; it’s exactly what is plain as day.  If Canada steps too far out of line it’s quickly labeled a red zone or Level 4 risk.  Only the US can really push back, but half of the US supports the consensus.  Anyway, facts speak for themselves.  You’re living under indefinite restrictions.  This is not happening everywhere. Inside our media bubble it feels like this is to be expected.

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It surely was a mistake to compare the unvaccinated to the Jews in the 1930s Germany. That was always going to trigger a furious backlash even from people who would otherwise agree with you.

It would have been wiser to use the comparison of the Russian gulags where all unwanted people were sent to. Nobody would have been triggered by that comparison.

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6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

At this point I've soured on lockdowns as well.  I don't support them anymore and think they're doing far more harm than good.  On the other hand, I'd rather an overly-cautious and self-righteous wannabe like Trudeau go through the process and let it last too long than for an amoral demagogue like DeSantis to be in charge of anything.  

When I started reading your post I sort of though "hey maybe this guy is reasonable" but then you finished it off with nonsense about international totalitarian consensus and I realized this was just thinly disguised reddit hyperbole-copypasta.  

DeSantis is a great governor

best in all of America, by far

and you'd rather have Trudeau?

you're insane

you may have been on the right in the past

but obvious far left propaganda is obvious

you've fallen to the dark side

Edited by Yzermandius19
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