Yzermandius19 Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Just now, eyeball said: Outlawing in-camera lobbying is banning free speech? It's only banning secrecy. Did you like it when the Kielbergers met behind closed doors with Trudeau? How about when he met with officials from SNC Lavelin? The registry that lobbyists and public officials use to demonstrate how transparent they're being said they were discussing criminal issues and public policy or some such thing. you are banning people from speaking in a manner you don't like textbook free speech banning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Just now, dialamah said: I compared the situation around the smallpox vaccine to the situation around the Covid vaccine today. I did not compare smallpox to Covid. comparing the reactions to two very different situations isn't relevant it would only be relevant if the situations were similar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Just now, dialamah said: I compared the situation around the smallpox vaccine to the situation around the Covid vaccine today. I did not compare smallpox to Covid. If covid had a mortality rate comparable to smallpox where up to 50% of children died from it, I would agree with you because people would be clamoring for the vaccine and lockdowns, fines, masking, segregation of society, firing people from jobs might be justified then. You cannot justify what is going on when covid's IFR is 0.05% higher than the seasonal flu. You can try but you just look ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: that point isn't relevant because it's an apples to oranges comparison It's completely relevant to compare the reaction against vaccine then to vaccine now because it's just as ridiculous. What's more ridiculous is your ongoing effort to respond to something that wasn't said which is why I said it's nearly impossible to discuss things with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, eyeball said: It's completely relevant to compare the reaction against vaccine then to vaccine now because it's just as ridiculous. one situation is vastly worse than the other therefore the current reaction is not ridiculous because similar restrictions are put in place for a threat that doesn't warrant it like I say, it's impossible to discuss with you because you just say dumb shit never admit when you are clearly wrong especially when called out on it Edited January 13, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Goddess said: If covid had a mortality rate comparable to smallpox where up to 50% of children died from it, I would agree with you because people would be clamoring for the vaccine and lockdowns, fines, masking, segregation of society, firing people from jobs might be justified then. You cannot justify what is going on How can you miss the point so completely? Anyway, as my first post in this thread stated, I'm against fines for unvaccinated. I'm also against hysterical statements comparing this Covid situation with Nazi Germany. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, dialamah said: Anyway, as my first post in this thread stated, I'm against fines for unvaccinated. This is a commendable statement. But can we move ahead somehow to some common frame of discussion, points and arguments where reasonable solutions can be produced on some reason-based grounds at least understood by most? It cannot end on "this has some risk so anything is justified" obviously; and "we just decided that because we are experts so you have to accept it whatever it is" isn't much more convincing. What can be then? Is there some principles and grounds that citizens with interest in the matter can share hopefully to find solutions that everybody can live with, if not be totally happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 The CAQ, which is the party that reigns with an iron fist on Quebec with draconian, baseless laws to 'fight COVID', is beginning to lose voters. A first since 2 years. All the gains are made by parties who are anti measures or anti curfew, while the Liberal Party of Quebec which is as vicious as the CAQ stalls. The curfew, the draconian measures simply are not supported anymore by any age group except the older folks who don't care about the youth, such as the Baby Boomers. https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2022/01/13/sondage-recul-important-des-appuis-de-la-caq 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, myata said: They aren't looking even remotely similar so what does the parallel justify? Only for you I'm adding a direct unaltered quote, here: "Speaking of history, the same sort of debates happened during smallpox outbreaks when vaccines were mandated." Well in your case I meant to demonstrate how conservatives like to alter what was said so they can justify responding to something they'd rather talk about. And then you did the exact same thing again. Quote So what is the meaning of pointing to "same sort of debate" for completely different events without any meaningful parallels? If you disagree the parallels are apt just say so directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Schools set to reopen in Quebec next week, despite all the efforts from Big Pharma and Big Tech. Curfew set to be gone this next Monday, despite all the push from the press here. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-schools-reopening-curfew-ending-1.6313667 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 24 minutes ago, dialamah said: How can you miss the point so completely? Anyway, as my first post in this thread stated, I'm against fines for unvaccinated. I'm also against hysterical statements comparing this Covid situation with Nazi Germany. I can't say I agree with fines either. Mandates are enough. I do have to say however that the spike in vaccinations in Quebec supports what I said in another related thread, that the spike reflects the lack of commitment amongst many of the unvaccinated to remain unvaccinated. There was a similar spike amongst the uncommitted, also in Quebec, when people found out they'd need proof of vaccination before shopping in liquor and pot stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 35 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: one situation is vastly worse than the other therefore the current reaction is not ridiculous because similar restrictions are put in place for a threat that doesn't warrant it You have vaccine squads patrolling your neighbourhood? Quote like I say, it's impossible to discuss with you because you just say dumb shit The only reason you have for saying that is because it puts on the spot. Quote never admit when you are clearly wrong especially when called out on it You still haven't pointed out what you think I need to admit to. I get that you disagree with me, but the way you've worded things makes it sound as if you think I've lied to you or something. Put up or shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, dialamah said: I'm also against hysterical statements comparing this Covid situation with Nazi Germany. I am against hysterical statements like "Covid is deadly." And, to get ahead of the game, I'm also an anti-microchipper. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Goddess said: I am against hysterical statements like "Covid is deadly." And, to get ahead of the game, I'm also an anti-microchipper. ? Covid is deadly. So is the flu. So is diabetes. So is Cancer. Lots of things are deadly, without actually killing everyone who gets it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, dialamah said: Covid is deadly. So is the flu. So is diabetes. So is Cancer. Lots of things are deadly, without actually killing everyone who gets it. Yes. A bad cold or the seasonal flu can be deadly when you're in you're 90's. But we don't run around in hysterics, shutting down society for them. And no one ever, breathlessly and terrified, called a cold or flu "deadly" before either. Stop the hysterics, lady. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 40 minutes ago, Goddess said: Yes. A bad cold or the seasonal flu can be deadly when you're in you're 90's. But we don't run around in hysterics, shutting down society for them. And no one ever, breathlessly and terrified, called a cold or flu "deadly" before either. Stop the hysterics, lady. Did I say cold, or are you just trying to mischaracterize what I did say? Covid is more deadly than the flu, at least up to Delta. (Omicron may be different, along with every strain after it - but we don't know yet). When was the last time the flu killed 30,000 people in Canada over 18 months? Or more than 3/4s of a million in the States? Stop making out as if the only people the flu, or Covid, kills are oldsters. You should also take into account that even mild cases of Covid can result in 'long Covid', sometimes severe enough to keep them from work. And just because someone is old or has comorbidities doesn't mean their deaths can be written off as proof that "Covid isn't that bad". Like Shady, you use comorbidities as a talisman to ward off the truth about Covid and how deadly it really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 We've been through many rounds here already and don't seem to be closer to essential conclusions. What if we try a different approach? A citizens panel on Covid and why not here? The standard to achieve would be "a conclusion by an informed involved citizen" and there are questions I would like to see answered on this level, for example: 1. How serious is Covid in comparison to other known conditions? 2. Is the risk of serious complications specific (to particular identifiable groups) or broad across the society? 3. What are possible paths, plans and strategies to return to normal functioning of the society? Maybe it could be a useful, possibly more useful exercise that trying to bring our points and on others? If we cannot achieve a complete agreement on all questions, maybe at least there can be a smaller set of questions and a level on which common ground can be found? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, dialamah said: Did I say cold, or are you just trying to mischaracterize what I did say? Covid is more deadly than the flu, at least up to Delta. (Omicron may be different, along with every strain after it - but we don't know yet). When was the last time the flu killed 30,000 people in Canada over 18 months? Or more than 3/4s of a million in the States? Stop making out as if the only people the flu, or Covid, kills are oldsters. You should also take into account that even mild cases of Covid can result in 'long Covid', sometimes severe enough to keep them from work. And just because someone is old or has comorbidities doesn't mean their deaths can be written off as proof that "Covid isn't that bad". Like Shady, you use comorbidities as a talisman to ward off the truth about Covid and how deadly it really is. Look, for that last time, everyone acknowledges that covid is a bit worse than the flu. IFR for covid is marginally higher by 0.05%. Annual flu deaths are not recorded accurately in Canada but the estimate is around 8000/year. So for 18 months, that would be about 12,000. And we know now that covid deaths have been inflated. No one here or anywhere else has ever said that the elderly or those with serious comorbidities dying with covid or flu should be "written off", so stop with the lying. It's just a fact of life. All everyone is saying is: Has it been worth destroying everything over? You feel it is. Not everyone else feels that way. Some of us are also concerned about the effect all these restrictions have had on the working class and on children. The collateral damage has yet to be quantified, but it's getting pretty obvious to everyone but hysterical people like you, that it has not been worth it and this whole thing has been mismanaged by greedy billionaires who have no business running the show. Wake up and stop with the hysterics. It's people like you who are keeping this gong show running. Edited January 13, 2022 by Goddess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, myata said: 3. What are possible paths, plans and strategies to return to normal functioning of the society? Above all else you people need to stop barfing up so much hooey about commies and Soros and NAZI'S and commies and Big tech and commies and the MSM and...did I mention commies? The shit clouding your minds makes it impossible to get a thought in sideways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Goddess said: Has it been worth destroying everything over? Hyperbole and hysteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, dialamah said: Hyperbole and hysteria. Easy to say when it's not YOU losing your job or business. Easy to say when it's not YOUR kid getting suicidal or addicted from being locked up. Easy to say when it's not YOU. Stop. The. Hysterics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Goddess said: Easy to say when it's not YOU losing your job or business. Easy to say when it's not YOUR kid getting suicidal or addicted from being locked up. Easy to say when it's not YOU. Stop. The. Hysterics. "They were old, fat, sick," is easy to say when you aren't the one in hospital on a ventilator or being lowered into the ground. Stop denying reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) There are objective numbers. Everybody can find them out and make up their own minds. Emotions do not change the objective picture. You can splash a scary picture of a flu patient with complications; a covid patient on a ventilator and an overdose patient with three different and possibly, mutually exclusive agendas. These emotional arguments can convince nobody, their intent is not to establish objective picture but either to scare into unquestioned compliance; or to reinforce already formed options. I wish we could do better than that. We could find and agree on objective numbers; compare them with other objective numbers; and form conclusions and opinions based on objective facts, reason and logic rather than fear and emotions. I wish we could. Edited January 14, 2022 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 It's fortunate the hazmat suited ones didn't create something like weaponized rubella in their/our WHO funded germ lab. That might actually create a real panic of zombie apocalypse proportion. Next virus, perhaps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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