CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) Quebec has been always ahead of other provinces. This time too, a Canadian first, taxing the unvaccinated claiming that the 10% minority are taking up 50% of hospital beds and more than 50% of ICUs so if they choose not to vaccinate (without a medical reason or exemption) then They have to pay higher tax to cover the extra cost on Health Care. This tax is similar to Federal taxes on Tobacco for example and has been around for many years and the logic accepted by society for many years is that since smokers are sicker in the long term requiring more health care, then they will have to pay more taxes on these products. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59960689 Edited January 11, 2022 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 I think this is wrong. I may disagree with the anti-vaxxers, but that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to make their own choices, even if I think they're dumb choices. Exclusion from some public spaces was appropriate, and is enough 'stick' for my taste. Fining people is just one step too far, imo, solves nothing and makes these even more convinced they're some kind of martyrs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 We put extra taxes on other bad life choices, tobacco, booze, junk food. If seven times more people per 100K population in hospital are unvaxxed, I'm not sure there shouldn't be consequences for their choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 59 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Quebec has been always ahead of other provinces. This time too, a Canadian first, taxing the unvaccinated claiming that the 10% minority are taking up 50% of hospital beds and more than 50% of ICU Might want to check your numbers if you care about accuracy. Just a suggestion Clearly Quebec is trying to be just like France and piss off the unvaccinated. Maybe this will be the first step to annexation!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 36 minutes ago, Aristides said: We put extra taxes on other bad life choices, tobacco, booze, junk food. If seven times more people per 100K population in hospital are unvaxxed, I'm not sure there shouldn't be consequences for their choices. So what if an obese, vaccinated person ends up in the hospital? Tax them too I guess because choices were made there as well 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Aristides said: We put extra taxes on other bad life choices, tobacco, booze, junk food. If seven times more people per 100K population in hospital are unvaxxed, I'm not sure there shouldn't be consequences for their choices. 1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: They have to pay higher tax to cover the extra cost on Health Care It would be more logical to apply this to the 50-80 age group as they represent 68.3% of ICU patients and 50 -80+ represent 75.8% of hospitalizations. If the problem is cost on health care, these are the people. https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html (not in favor) Edited January 12, 2022 by Winston link added 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 42 minutes ago, Accountability Now said: So what if an obese, vaccinated person ends up in the hospital? Tax them too I guess ecause choices were made there as well No being obese is not a choice but refusing vaccine or smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 33 minutes ago, Winston said: It would be more logical to apply this to the 50-80 age group as they represent 68.3% of ICU patients and 50 -80+ represent 75.8% of hospitalizations. If the problem is cost on health care, these are the people. https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html (not in favor) No wrong. Aging is not a choice but refusing vaccine or smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: No being obese is not a choice For most it is. It’s just choices they don’t like making. The others could get a medical exemption I guess. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Accountability Now said: So what if an obese, vaccinated person ends up in the hospital? Tax them too I guess because choices were made there as well Obesity is not contagious. One of these days that will finally sink in. I'm not in love with the idea of taxing people, I would much rather they just got vaccinated. We would all be better off. Edited January 12, 2022 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benz Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 I have mixed feelings about this. I took two shots and got the covid. I am all for vaccination but, there is one catch. The wording regarding the responsibility of the big pharmas regarding their vaccines seems clear to me. Although they are responsible, you are the one that needs to prove it and it must be almost out of any reasonable doubts. I took the choice to trust them anyway but, I respect those who do not. If it was more clear that the companies accept their responsibilities, then I would be easily in favor of such measures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, Aristides said: Obesity is not contagious. One of these days that will finally sink in. What does being contagious have to do with it? The vaccines aren’t stopping spread so why should an unvaxxed be taxed for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 16 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: No wrong. Aging is not a choice but refusing vaccine or smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol is. Sorry I thought the point was "They have to pay higher tax to cover the extra cost on Health Care." hence why I stated the cost through the age groups. Also new data came out for Ontario, 46-47% of hospitalizations are not due to COVID nor are 17-20% of ICU patients. Would the rules still apply to those that are not in the hospital due to covid? https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/breakdown-of-covid-19-positive-hospital-admissions/resource/d1199d1b-dc82-4e63-bb80-5c715e97a127 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Accountability Now said: What does being contagious have to do with it? The vaccines aren’t stopping spread so why should an unvaxxed be taxed for it It has everything to do with it, you can't give anyone obesity by breathing on them. The vaccine is keeping people out of hospital at a ratio of 7 to 1 in BC. The unvaxxed are kicking the shit out of a health care system that is already short staffed because of Omricon. Maybe it's time the unvaxxed started taking responsibility for their choices because the rest shouldn't have too. Edited January 12, 2022 by Aristides 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 57 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: No being obese is not a choice but refusing vaccine or smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol is. There's a fat one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 The fascists tendencies of the left. Go figure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, Nationalist said: The fascists tendencies of the left. Go figure... That's a right-wing government in Quebec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, dialamah said: That's a right-wing government in Quebec. Lol...ya...right wing. Proposing taxes on citizens over the jab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 They should raise taxes on everyone instead and then provide a 100% tax credit for getting vaccinated. Same outcome but more palatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) It is a simple way to avoid the tax. Get vaccinated. It is free and it is your right. Edited January 12, 2022 by Queenmandy85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: No being obese is not a choice but refusing vaccine or smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol is. It is your choice you are obese Citizen. You should pay an extra for your extra bacons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Aristides said: It has everything to do with it, you can't give anyone obesity by breathing on them. By your logic, anyone who can breath Covid on you should be taxed. So that means EVERYONE would be taxed. Do you not get it yet or are you not informed on the transmission rates. Here...let me help you out with stats from your own province: Past week cases (Jan. 3-9) - Total 19,206 Not vaccinated: 3,125 (16.3%) Partially vaccinated: 597 (3.1%) Fully vaccinated: 15,484 (80.6%) 77.7% of people are fully vaccinated and they have 80.6% of the cases. Are they spreading it more....no but they are spreading it the same as the unvaxxed. 1 hour ago, Aristides said: The vaccine is keeping people out of hospital at a ratio of 7 to 1 in BC. I think you're using old data as its off by a bit. When they do their 'adjustment for age' it shows the rates for unvaxxed hospital at 33.1 and for the fully vaxxed at 5.8 yielding a 5.7X difference (not 7) Of course three key things to note: 1. These rates have been changing drastically over the last few weeks. For example, on Dec 31st this rate was 13.0. On Nov 1, it was 22. Now its down to 5.7 (even changed from 7 when you last saw). Key point....it won't be long before that rate is 1 meaning the vaccinated rate is the same as unvaxxed 2. As I stated above, those rates they like to flaunt are 'adjusted for age'. This method is a statistical maneuver the government is using to make the numbers look better for the vaxxed because we know that Covid affects the elderly more (and the elderly are higher vaxxed). When you look at the raw numbers you actually see how close it is getting: Past two weeks cases hospitalized (Dec. 27 to Jan. 9) - Total 422 Not vaccinated: 135 (32.0%) Partially vaccinated: 15 (3.6%) Fully vaccinated: 272 (64.4%) Keep in mind 77.7% of people are vaccinated and the hospitals have 64.4% vaxxed in them. Curious to see what this looks like next week. PS....this is pretty much the same in the other provinces too. 1 hour ago, Aristides said: The unvaxxed are kicking the shit out of a health care system that is already short staffed because of Omricon. You mean those 135 people are taking down BC health? If that is true then you guys have much bigger problems. Or...could it be the 287 partially/fully vaxxed in the hospital. Or could it be the fully vaxxed workers who are not at work because they contracted Covid even though a true vaccine would stop that. Maybe its time the vaccinated start to accept responsibility for their part in this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 What really makes this interesting is two things: 1. Their health minister just abruptly quit yesterday before this announcement was made. I am only guessing but perhaps people in their heath care system might not agree with Legault? 2. This tax only applies to unvaxxed meaning you can get one shot and not pay it. In my opinion its a scare tactic as they know it will be tough to legal pass this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Aristides said: It has everything to do with it, you can't give anyone obesity by breathing on them. The vaccine is keeping people out of hospital at a ratio of 7 to 1 in BC. The unvaxxed are kicking the shit out of a health care system that is already short staffed because of Omricon. Maybe it's time the unvaxxed started taking responsibility for their choices because the rest shouldn't have too. Obesity is responsible for 1 death in every 10 deaths, and beats covid by a long shot in regards to dying. 1 out of every 4 Canadians are considered obese. It does tax our health system, to the tune of 9 bil a year in 2021. It is a life choice one has to make, it can be that can be turned around by good diet and exercise, But one must decide to take action. Obesity in Canada - Obesity Canada 1 hour ago, Aristides said: Obesity is not contagious. One of these days that will finally sink in. I'm not in love with the idea of taxing people, I would much rather they just got vaccinated. We would all be better off. It may not be contagious, but it is a disease, atleast by the medical field. almost 1/2 of our current health care budget. And while we do have a special tax on Tabaco, and booze, we don't tax other poor choices, sky diving, bungie jumping, Sugar, in things like pop candies, chocolate etc, process flour. Do we tax prisoners in jail, One has to ask how much more are we going to punish people who have made a choice, they are forced to stay at home for the most part, alot have been fired from jobs, forced to move provinces, can not collect unemployment, or CERB, or any other benefit now we want to place a tax on them, after the taxing what is the next step, what is it that so call normal Canadians are willing to force upon other Canadians like they were leapers... and at what percentage of the population has to be vaccinated to stop all this bullshit ?. It just keeps getting piled up on, and those that are staying home doing their part sooner or later they are going to stop as well, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 You have to deal with the greatest threat to the system. Right now it is about pragmatism, not ideology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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