Is Trudeau Really The Liar and Intolerant Bigot That This Translation Would Prove Him To Be?

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, Goddess said:

That's fitting.  Since today is Holocaust Remembrance Day.

Never forget what hating "the other" leads to.

I'm not actually a fan of the way that the Holocaust is 'remembered'.

The holocaust wasn't rare or unique, even in the 20th century. It was just one example of something that humans do all too often. 

When we talk about the holocaust, I think it's really important to think of it as a recurring problem and not a one-off. It's not a "Jew" issue, it's an inhumanity issue. 

[Queenmandy85]

"Is Trudeau Really The Liar and Intolerant Bigot That This Translation Would Prove Him To Be?"

Short answer, No.

[eyeball]

13 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I'm not actually a fan of the way that the Holocaust is 'remembered'.

The holocaust wasn't rare or unique, even in the 20th century. It was just one example of something that humans do all too often. 

When we talk about the holocaust, I think it's really important to think of it as a recurring problem and not a one-off. It's not a "Jew" issue, it's an inhumanity issue. 

So the Holocaust was an attempt to exterminate inhumans?

BTW who's this 'we' you're talking about, is it a group you belong to or something?

[myata]

On 1/27/2022 at 2:34 PM, WestCanMan said:

he’s seen people online

Looks like the new standard of journalism in Canada, great new dawn all together now!

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

So the Holocaust was an attempt to exterminate inhumans?

BTW who's this 'we' you're talking about, is it a group you belong to or something?

OMG, that was just as stupid as your other post, with an even lower word count. You're being extra thrifty today. Do you have carpal tunnel syndrome or something? 

[WestCanMan]

19 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

"Is Trudeau Really The Liar and Intolerant Bigot That This Translation Would Prove Him To Be?"

Short answer, No.

He actually is, he just has the world's largest PR conglomerate in CTV/CBC/Global news.

FYI bigotry is when you falsely ascribe negative character traits to a group of people, and that's exactly what Trudeau did.

Not only did he slander a whole group of people, he had a call to action in his message: he suggested that said group shouldn't be 'tolerated'.

Take his words, switch up the group name that he used, and see if you can suddenly spot the bigotry. 

"Jews are very often misogynists and racists. What we have to ask ourselves, as a leader and a country, is "Should we tolerate them?""

"Muslims are very often misogynists and racists. What we have to ask ourselves, as a leader and a country, is "Should we tolerate them?""

"Blacks are very often misogynists and racists. What we have to ask ourselves, as a leader and a country, is "Should we tolerate them?""

"Vaccinated people are very often misogynists and racists. What we have to ask ourselves, as a leader and a country, is "Should we tolerate them?""

"The Chinese are very often misogynists and racists. What we have to ask ourselves, as a leader and a country, is "Should we tolerate them?""

Do you get it Qm? 

He belched out vile bigotry, plain and simple ( if the translation was accurate). Only bigots usually do that.

Didn't you used to be a cop? Shouldn't you be more informed and honest about what constitutes hate speech? 

What wonderful cities did you live in where the police were defending hate speech?

[eyeball]

36 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

OMG, that was just as stupid as your other post, with an even lower word count. You're being extra thrifty today. Do you have carpal tunnel syndrome or something? 

No. Do you have an answer to my questions? You gave every appearance of being thoughtful about something when you posted this.

On 1/28/2022 at 8:09 AM, WestCanMan said:

I'm not actually a fan of the way that the Holocaust is 'remembered'.

The holocaust wasn't rare or unique, even in the 20th century. It was just one example of something that humans do all too often. 

When we talk about the holocaust, I think it's really important to think of it as a recurring problem and not a one-off. It's not a "Jew" issue, it's an inhumanity issue. 

In addition to my first questions I'm curious about why you're not a fan and why you put quotation marks around the word remembered, what do they signify?

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No. Do you have an answer to my questions? You gave every appearance of being thoughtful about something when you posted this.

Your question doesn't elaborate a need for clarification on my part, it just exposes your inability to comprehend what you're reading, so yes I do have an answer but no, I don't really need to give it. 

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In addition to my first questions I'm curious about why you're not a fan and why you put quotation marks around the word remembered, what do they signify?

Everyone else understands it implicitly, but for your edification, here goes.

The Holocaust isn't 'remembered' as a genocide among many, which is what it was. It's talked about as if it was 'the' genocide and nothing else compares. That's dangerous, as it gives a sense of rarity to the topic which couldn't possibly be more wrong.

In the 20th century there were a lot of genocides where 1M or more people were killed. It's actually a very broad topic, but in Canada we just focus on the one genocide, and the one group of people affected by it.

There's a lead-up to genocide that's very common. People try to get the momentum going quite often but it usually fizzles, and we tend to ignore that lead-up. The UN ignores it. Trudeau ignores it. Our own PM was a genocide denier as recently as 2017.

Watch Hotel Rwanda some time, I'm pretty sure that it's still on Netflix. Our own Canadian General, Romeo Dallaire, tried to stop a genocide in Rwanda and the UN literally tied his hands. If you can read, he even wrote a book called "Shake Hands With The Devil" which obviously goes into more detail. 

People could see that genocide coming ahead of time, our western governments poo-pooed it, the UN ordered troops to stand down so that it was allowed to happen, and it was bizarrely unnecessary or even approved. 

We shouldn't discuss the holocaust like it was a one-off. It's like calling the Viet Nam war: "the war". We should spend more time talking about what the preamble to a genocide looks like and less time talking about what specifically happened to those people. 

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Do you get it Qm? 

Good point. Thanks. OTOH see my remarks below.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Your question doesn't elaborate a need for clarification on my part, it just exposes your inability to comprehend what you're reading, so yes I do have an answer but no, I don't really need to give it.  

Well, you could just lie, you said yourself you don't mind doing that when trying to get a point across.

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Everyone else understands it implicitly, but for your edification, here goes.

 

 I'd be really curious to see how DOP understands this.

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The Holocaust isn't 'remembered' as a genocide among many, which is what it was. It's talked about as if it was 'the' genocide and nothing else compares. That's dangerous, as it gives a sense of rarity to the topic which couldn't possibly be more wrong.

As I understand it the rarity attributed to the Holocaust was because of the scope and scale of the institutional and industrial manner in which it was carried out.  

Again what is with your use of quotation marks around the word remembered?  It seems like you're saying the historical record is wrong or has been politicized for some reason.

[Queenmandy85]

On 1/9/2022 at 4:21 PM, WestCanMan said:

there is still a part of the population (that) is fiercely against it. 

“They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist. It’s a very small group of people

I interpreted the Prime Minister to be saying a small group of people in this country are misogynistic and racists. I did not interpret what he was saying to be aimed at all anti vaxxers. To me it seems like he was referring to actual misogynists and racists as a group. On the other hand, the anti vaxxers do not believe in science by definition. If they did believe in science, they would have already wanted to be vaccinated.

That is how I interpreted his translated remarks.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Well, you could just lie, you said yourself you don't mind doing that when trying to get a point across.

Liar.

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 I'd be really curious to see how DOP understands this.

So?

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As I understand it the rarity attributed to the Holocaust was because of the scope and scale of the institutional and industrial manner in which it was carried out.

Sometimes people are chopped up with machetes. Sometimes they're intentionally starved and frozen to death. Sometimes they're publicly shot. Sometimes they're publicly hung. Sometimes they have their heads chopped off. Children are included in those massacres. 

Do you really care if rail cars were involved? One could argue that a gas chamber is a more humane death than machete hacking. Does that make it any better? 

The whole point is that the main objective of a conversation about genocides should be "recognizing the signs of an impending genocide" and not "one genocide was carried out in an industrial manner". 

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  Again what is with your use of quotation marks around the word remembered?  It seems like you're saying the historical record is wrong or has been politicized for some reason.

It's "remembered" as "the genocide". That's incorrect. It should be "remembered" as "a genocide". 

It's a sensitive topic. Instead of trying to drum up controversy you should be trying to understand. If you had and an honest correction or a distinction to make that would be one thing, but you're just trying to be difficult. It's disconcerting. 

[WestCanMan]

14 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I interpreted the Prime Minister to be saying a small group of people in this country are misogynistic and racists. I did not interpret what he was saying to be aimed at all anti vaxxers. To me it seems like he was referring to actual misogynists and racists as a group. On the other hand, the anti vaxxers do not believe in science by definition. If they did believe in science, they would have already wanted to be vaccinated.

That is how I interpreted his translated remarks.

He was actually speaking about anti-vaxxers when he made the comment about misogynists & racists. 

[eyeball]

41 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Liar.

No it's the truth, you don't remember saying; Trudeau's stupidity and cronyism is still on full display, but in order to sway leftists to understand these things it's necessary to throw in some unsubstantiated* accusations and character assassinations.

 

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It's a sensitive topic. Instead of trying to drum up controversy you should be trying to understand. If you had and an honest correction or a distinction to make that would be one thing, but you're just trying to be difficult. It's disconcerting.

You should try to 'remember' that when cavaliery drumming accusations of Nazi and fascists against people you don't like.  

You must really subscribe a lot to your notion that its necessary to sway people with unsubstantiated accusations and character assassinations.  That's actually pretty typical of people who commit 'Holocaust's' isn't it?

Edited January 29, 2022 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

28 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No it's the truth, you don't remember saying; Trudeau's stupidity and cronyism is still on full display, but in order to sway leftists to understand these things it's necessary to throw in some unsubstantiated* accusations and character assassinations.

 

Where's the part where I theoretically said "in order to sway leftists to understand these things it's necessary to throw in some unsubstantiated* accusations and character assassinations."? LMAO, you're insane.

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You should try to 'remember' that when cavaliery drumming accusations of Nazi and fascists against people you don't like.  

You must really subscribe a lot to your notion that its necessary to sway people with unsubstantiated accusations and character assassinations.  That's actually pretty typical of people who commit 'Holocaust's' isn't it?

Au contraire. When people use nazi/fascist tactics it's actually important to draw the parallel.

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“We all know people who are deciding whether or not they are willing to get vaccinated, and we will do our very best to try to convince them. However, there is still a part of the population (that) is fiercely against it. 

“They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist. It’s a very small group of people, but that doesn’t shy away from the fact that they take up some space. 

“This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people? 

That is an example of bigotry. That is an example of fascist hate speech. That is an example of a vax-Nazi.

Your assertion that we should ignore that kind of thing, or put a bow on it, or try to give him the benefit of the doubt is the exact same thing that bystanders in Germany did. The bystanders in Syria and Iran did that. The bystanders in Rwanda did that. The bystanders in China, Russia, Armenia, Cambodia, Uganda, Pakistan/India did that. 

Canada is no better than any of those places when we allow hate speech to flourish, and you have to nip hate speech in the bud. You can't wait until there's a machete-wielding mob to start asking people to tone down the rhetoric.

You're late to condemn the hate speech and you should ask yourself if it's because you like the hate speech. 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I interpreted the Prime Minister to be saying a small group of people in this country are misogynistic and racists. I did not interpret what he was saying to be aimed at all anti vaxxers. To me it seems like he was referring to actual misogynists and racists as a group. On the other hand, the anti vaxxers do not believe in science by definition. If they did believe in science, they would have already wanted to be vaccinated.

That is how I interpreted his translated remarks.

Here's more of the speech, for more context:

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“We all know people who are deciding whether or not they are willing to get vaccinated, and we will do our very best to try to convince them. However, there is still a part of the population (that) is fiercely against it. 

“They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist. It’s a very small group of people, but that doesn’t shy away from the fact that they take up some space. 

“This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people? Over 80% of the population of Quebec have done their duty by getting the shot. They are obviously not the issue in this situation.”

 

[eyeball]

47 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Where's the part where I theoretically said "in order to sway leftists to understand these things it's necessary to throw in some unsubstantiated* accusations and character assassinations."? LMAO, you're insane.

Right here

I'm honest, you're forgetful. 

 

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Au contraire. When people use nazi/fascist tactics it's actually important to draw the parallel.

By acting like one, saying libellous unsubstantiated things?  You'll note I accurately called you an admitted liar and then substantiated that with an example of you admitting it.  That's the difference between you and me.

 

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That is an example of bigotry. That is an example of fascist hate speech. That is an example of a vax-Nazi.

Actually Trudeau's comments are a better example of something more moderate people should have been saying in Germany during Hitler's rise. But I probably risk stooping to your Godwinian level by implying all the protesters are fascistic when in fact it's really only a very small number of them.  

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Your assertion that we should ignore that kind of thing, or put a bow on it, or try to give him the benefit of the doubt is the exact same thing that bystanders in Germany did. The bystanders in Syria and Iran did that. The bystanders in Rwanda did that. The bystanders in China, Russia, Armenia, Cambodia, Uganda, Pakistan/India did that. 

Canada is no better than any of those places when we allow hate speech to flourish, and you have to nip hate speech in the bud. You can't wait until there's a machete-wielding mob to start asking people to tone down the rhetoric.

You're late to condemn the hate speech and you should ask yourself if it's because you like the hate speech.

 

What I'm actually doing is continuing my ongoing mockery of you baaaaing Nazi and fascist at every opportunity but when you start going so far as to bring the Holocaust into it and then go on to compare what Trudeau merely said about a small handful of people to what Hitler actually did to six million human beings is an incredible insult to the memory of those people.

We won't be any better off if we don't condemn the examples of stupid speech you keep providing either.  It's never too late to condemn that.

Edited January 29, 2022 by eyeball

[West]

Trudeau should be slapped in cuffs and brought up on hate crime charges. His travel mandates are clearly an attempt to cause financial hardship against an identifiable group

[myata]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

compare what Trudeau merely said about a small handful of people to what Hitler actually did

You are conveniently forgetting what he said before he started doing it. "Never again", yes?

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, myata said:

You are conveniently forgetting what he said before he started doing it. "Never again", yes?

Forgetting what and where exactly?  I'm not even certain who you mean.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Right here

I'm honest, you're forgetful. 

 

I was just making fun of you. The asterisk goes with this sentence from the bottom of the post. 

"* unsubstantiated within the context of this thread, but fully explained in other threads. No matter how hard I try I can't quite find it in me to lie like a leftist. "

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By acting like one, saying libellous unsubstantiated things?  You'll note I accurately called you an admitted liar and then substantiated that with an example of you admitting it.  That's the difference between you and me.

I wasn't lying, I was just making fun of you. It went over your head, like almost everything else. I underestimated your stupidity, but in all fairness I don't read many of your posts.

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Actually Trudeau's comments are a better example of something more moderate people should have been saying in Germany during Hitler's rise. But I probably risk stooping to your Godwinian level by implying all the protesters are fascistic when in fact it's really only a very small number of them.  

What I'm actually doing is continuing my ongoing mockery of you baaaaing Nazi and fascist at every opportunity but when you start going so far as to bring the Holocaust into it and then go on to compare what Trudeau merely said about a small handful of people to what Hitler actually did to six million human beings is an incredible insult to the memory of those people.

We won't be any better off if we don't condemn the examples of stupid speech you keep providing either.  It's never too late to condemn that.

Trudeau's comments meet/exceed the threshold of hate speech by falsely ascribing negative character attributes across a wide group of people. 

Your defence of his hate speech meets/exceeds the threshold of being an acolyte of a hate monger. 

What you fail to understand is that there's a starting point for hatred and division, not just a sudden boiling point. Frog... cold water... boiling... death. 

Interestingly enough, that was the whole point of my critique of the way we talk about the holocaust. You're the exact type of person who feels like they are against fascism, but when presented with the opportunity to engage in it, you participate willingly because you don't recognize the starting point.  

FYI Hitler didn't just tell people to hate/kill Jews one morning and they all ran out and did it. It started off with the exact same kind of hate speech that you and Trudeau are fond of. Cute hate speech, justified by your own ignorance of science.

You guys start off with some lies, like calling people racists and misogynists just because they don't take a demi-vax, and create justification for action against those people. Just a bit of intolerance at first. How bad is intolerance, really? You're just stripping people of the right to participate in society and hold jobs, right? That's not fascist, right eyeball? 

Actually, it is. 

Don't worry, your misguided sense of moral superiority and intelligence won't take a hit here because all of this was over your head too.

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I was just making fun of you. The asterisk goes with this sentence from the bottom of the post. 

"* unsubstantiated within the context of this thread, but fully explained in other threads. No matter how hard I try I can't quite find it in me to lie like a leftist. "I wasn't lying, I was just making fun of you. It went over your head, like almost everything else.

You didn't put any asterisk in your thread title or OP.  You clearly weren't making fun of anyone then, you were lying, as substantiated by the very same article you provided as evidence.  You just imagined that would go over everyone else's heads too? 

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I underestimated your stupidity, but in all fairness I don't read many of your posts.

What you're actually doing is over-estimating your own smerts. You should read more of your own posts.

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Trudeau's comments meet/exceed the threshold of hate speech by falsely ascribing negative character attributes across a wide group of people.

Your defence of his hate speech meets/exceeds the threshold of being an acolyte of a hate monger. 

What you fail to understand is that there's a starting point for hatred and division, not just a sudden boiling point. Frog... cold water... boiling... death. 

Except he accurately described the small group of hatred stoking assholes who are trying to hijack the issue the larger group of truckers are  protesting - quarantines for unvaccinated drivers at the border.  You're doing the same thing to Trudeau's comments here that you did to his comments in your Trudeau's Attack on Homeowner's thread.

  

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Interestingly enough, that was the whole point of my critique of the way we talk about the holocaust. You're the exact type of person who feels like they are against fascism, but when presented with the opportunity to engage in it, you participate willingly because you don't recognize the starting point.  

FYI Hitler didn't just tell people to hate/kill Jews one morning and they all ran out and did it. It started off with the exact same kind of hate speech that you and Trudeau are fond of. Cute hate speech, justified by your own ignorance of science.

You guys start off with some lies, like calling people racists and misogynists just because they don't take a demi-vax, and create justification for action against those people. Just a bit of intolerance at first. How bad is intolerance, really? You're just stripping people of the right to participate in society and hold jobs, right? That's not fascist, right eyeball? 

Actually, it is. 

Don't worry, your misguided sense of moral superiority and intelligence won't take a hit here because all of this was over your head too.

 

Careful now, you're starting to stray off into using pins and string to save your silly fucking ass.  

[Charles Anthony]

Folks, 

Avoid personal attacks and trolling. 

[WestCanMan]

17 hours ago, eyeball said:

You didn't put any asterisk in your thread title or OP.  You clearly weren't making fun of anyone then, you were lying, as substantiated by the very same article you provided as evidence.  You just imagined that would go over everyone else's heads too? 

You saw what was there. It had it's intended effect ?

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What you're actually doing is over-estimating your own smerts. You should read more of your own posts.

Yeah I'm pretty happy with the accuracy of my posts. They stand the test of time. Can you say the same? Don't think so. Thanks for comin' out.

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Except he accurately described the small group of hatred stoking assholes who are trying to hijack the issue the larger group of truckers are  protesting - quarantines for unvaccinated drivers at the border.  You're doing the same thing to Trudeau's comments here that you did to his comments in your Trudeau's Attack on Homeowner's thread.

Your support of hate mongering and fascism is duly noted, but your attempt to justify it was doomed to fail from the start, because hate mongering is never actually good. 

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Careful now, you're starting to stray off into using pins and string to save your silly fucking ass.  

I actually just feel sorry for you. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You saw what was there. It had it's intended effect ?

You intended to highlight the fact you need to misinform and mislead people to make your points?  In that case I ask again, why didn't you add this caveat to your title and OP?  You say you used your asterisk for my benefit so does this mean you expected everyone else to just know what you were up to and to not take your post and opinions seriously? 

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Yeah I'm pretty happy with the accuracy of my posts. They stand the test of time. Can you say the same? Don't think so. Thanks for comin' out.

I don't see you linking to direct quotes of me admitting I make unsubstantiated accusations to make my points.  I do see you often stringing together a bunch of assumptions, unrelated topics plus whatever your imagination reads between the lines when trying to cover up your inaccuracies - copium as moonbox put it.

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Your support of hate mongering and fascism is duly noted, but your attempt to justify it was doomed to fail from the start, because hate mongering is never actually good. 

I don't support or justify those things at all and you don't have a single quote or shred of evidence to substantiate your assertion that I do. All you will find is an overwhelming amount of evidence plus a long long standing record that almost spans decades in this forum of being vehemently opposed to these things.  Of course you'll find no shortage of assertions that try to compare me to Marx, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, Genghis Khan you name it, but nothing to justify it other than a steady patient determination to force as much accountability into our governance as possible.  This is due to my eternal conviction that the self-interested misinformation generated by a very small number of right and honourable personages who govern us trickles down thru our society like a disease - it has caused an infection that has now spread so far and wide thru society that its almost become endemic.

You might be surprised to know just how many partisan progressives are also wary or can't/won't try to imagine how much outlawing in-camera lobbying might reverse this death spiral.

So before you try to pin me down again as some sort of supporter for Trudeau and fascism how about if you ask yourself first why I'd post this story about corruption and the lack of transparency that puts the Turd in such an awful light? Feel free to defend Trudeau by attacking the accuracy and veracity and importance of what I posted to your heart's content.

I honestly think people don't like the idea of transparency to the nth degree because it would shatter so many illusions and shine a painful light on how we see ourselves as a people and a nation. All I can say is cry me a river.

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I actually just feel sorry for you.

?

Edited January 30, 2022 by eyeball