Mandatory Covid vaccination in Canada now a possibility.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

This is a tremendous example of a otherwise logical thinking person going stark raving mad from Branch Covidianism.  Soon he’ll be saying the same thing about people not getting multiple boosters.

 

Yeah I trust people who make comments like Adler’s less than anyone.  

[myata]

Can't be said any better:

"The ones demanding that we comply blindly and without questions or lose all of our righs, are the extremists".

And obviously, authoritarians, because this is pure essence of what authoritarianism is, and is about.

Edited January 9, 2022 by myata

[ironstone]

10 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

It's hilarious watching rabid pro-life wingnuts suddenly believe in personal body autonomy because they're scared of a jab. Somehow they think they have the right to kill others by spreading the virus to them.

That's kind of a stretch. The death rate from abortion would be 100% while the death rate from covid is very low for most of the population and somewhat higher for those with pre-existing conditions. Obese people, smokers face greater risk than most. Should governments now force them to go to the gym and make smoking completely illegal?

I personally would like to see as many people as possible get vaccinated but not forced by government to do so.

IHU: New Covid variant with 46 mutations worries experts in France (yahoo.com)

Wow imagine that! Another variant coming ??

[myata]

18 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Obese people, smokers face greater risk than most. Should governments now force them to go to the gym and make smoking completely illegal?

You preempted me, this is not some bubblers here on CBC they just mentioned a letter of exsperts in Quebec pointing fingers at non vaccinated for taking a half of Covid-related hospitalizations.

Up to a half, really? What fraction would those overweight make of heart and diabetes related hospitalizations in our normal, good times? Would it be in the 80% or higher? Should it then be a valid reason to call for, forget denying care, imposing weight-related restrictions, overweight, can't go to shopping mall and restaurant then impose mandatory weight limits. Why would it sound stretched and ridiculous, if you looked around recently?

What it is really showing though, is the level of the loss of reason and sanity in the society. No critical checks, little if any questioning of the dogma does that, easily. It's no longer in some forum, folks aren't ashamed to say that in public, call for it, make appeals to authorities. And think then: will it get better any time soon? Why would, how, from where?

Edited January 9, 2022 by myata

[OftenWrong]

17 minutes ago, ironstone said:

That's kind of a stretch. The death rate from abortion would be 100% while the death rate from covid is very low for most of the population and somewhat higher for those with pre-existing conditions. Obese people, smokers face greater risk than most. Should governments now force them to go to the gym and make smoking completely illegal?

It’s not even about ratios, but intent. Spreading the virus is unintentional, and happens anyway whether vaxxed or not. Conflating it to something like abortion is just a fake argument from the idiot brigade.

[myata]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

from the idiot brigade.

And now seems like some exsperts have enrolled too (the post above)

Edited January 9, 2022 by myata

[OftenWrong]

4 minutes ago, myata said:

You preempted me, this is not some bubblers here on CBC they just mentioned a letter of exsperts in Quebec pointing fingers at non vaccinated for taking a half of Covid-related hospitalizations.

Up to a half, really? What fraction would those overweight make of heart and diabetes related hospitalizations in our normal, good times? Would it be in the 80% or higher? Should it then be a valid reason to call for, forget denying care, imposing weight-related restrictions, overweight, can't go to shopping mall and restaurant then impose mandatory weight limits. Why would it sound stretched and ridiculous, if you looked around recently?

What it is really showing though, is the level of the loss of reason and sanity in the society. No critical checks, little if any questioning of the dogma does that, easily. It's no longer in some forum, folks aren't ashamed to say that in public, call for it, make appeals to authorities. And think then: will it get better any time soon? Why would, how, from where?

Ratios and numbers are being thrown all over the place to confuse the weak-minded. When I hear that we are shut down because of 300 or so ICU beds in a province that has 350 hospitals, it’s a larf.

[blackbird]

9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I just don’t fear it.  People I work with who are much less healthy than I am have made quick recoveries.  I was surprised actually.  Exposure means we are living with the virus.  No big deal.  

An Toronto ICU nurse on CBC just said the people she is seeing coming into the ICU are sicker and sicker.  Some are dying and some are in a medically-induced coma.   It is very serious.  Sadly 21 died in Ontario in the past day and there are about 400 people in the ICU.  That appears to be about 5% of the people in the ICU die.  Many others will have ongoing medical problems.  So Covid is something to avoid.   A healthy fear is a good idea.

Edited January 9, 2022 by blackbird

[Zeitgeist]

56 minutes ago, blackbird said:

An Toronto ICU nurse on CBC just said the people she is seeing coming into the ICU are sicker and sicker.  Some are dying and some are in a medically-induced coma.   It is very serious.  Sadly 21 died in Ontario in the past day and there are about 400 people in the ICU.  That appears to be about 5% of the people in the ICU die.  Many others will have ongoing medical problems.  So Covid is something to avoid.   A healthy fear is a good idea.

The reason more people are dying is that far more people are getting a virus that is impossible to avoid.  Rather, the only way to avoid it is to live like an astronaut.   There will be a very small segment of society that will have to be very careful.  We’ve probably been having well over 50,000 cases on some days in Ontario.  In the US it got up to over a million a day.  At that rate it’s inevitable to have more hospitalized people.  We’ll see a higher death rate until most people are infected.

No I don’t fear Covid.  I do fear living under a permanent loss of freedom.  My organization was masked all day and now works from home. It’s sick to expect people to live like this indefinitely.  Well I won’t do it if I can leave.  It’s sad and dystopian.  People’s mental health is so poor.   Hope is fading into resignation.   

Edited January 9, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Accountability Now]

1 hour ago, myata said:

You preempted me, this is not some bubblers here on CBC they just mentioned a letter of exsperts in Quebec pointing fingers at non vaccinated for taking a half of Covid-related hospitalizations.

Up to a half, really?

It’s not even half though. If you look at the Quebec website, over the last 28 days the hospitalizations have been:

That’s 1131 unvaxxed, 84 partial and 2123 fully vaxxed. That means unvaxxed are at 33.8%. Even if you add in the partially vaxxed its only 36.3%. I think he meant the ICU and not hospitalized as the ICU is exactly half of fully Vaxxed versus Not Fully Vaxxed

 

Its frustrating that a Health minister would make that mistake but it’s more frustrating that no one corrects him

[Accountability Now]

46 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Sadly 21 died in Ontario in the past day 

Did they say what the vaccination status of those who died were? 
 

I can’t seem to find stats from any province on the recent death stats

[myata]

7 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

more frustrating that no one corrects him

Please correct me if this is not what a corruption and erosion of democracy is, with an easily deduced outcome.

Edited January 9, 2022 by myata

[Accountability Now]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

Please correct me if this is not what a corruption and erosion of democracy is, with an easily deduced outcome.

I wish I could correct you but you’re not wrong. 

[ironstone]

Politicians of all stripes like to politicize everything and use it to their advantage, and covid is no exception. There was great resistance and pushback to possible alternative treatments and the most notable example was when Trump mentioned hydroxychloroquine as something to examine. I've read about doctors being censored on social media for saying hydroxychloroquine can be effective against covid. Ivermectin and Fluvoxamine may also be effective early treatments against covid according to many doctors. Could lives have been saved if these existing medications would have been used earlier? A potential game changer was dismissed because of the lefties intense hatred for Donald Trump?

Joe Rogan: Dr. Pierre Kory Treated 200 Members of Congress With Ivermectin | Video | RealClearPolitics

CNN lied about Ivermectin calling it horse de-wormer and not acknowledging that it's been widely used by humans.

Ivermectin in COVID-19 - FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (covid19criticalcare.com)

The Chinese communists were the first to weaponize covid against rivals but they are not the last to do so.

[myata]

16 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Could lives have been saved if these existing medications would have been used earlier?

What about subscribing to, recommending and publicly promoting a treatment with highly questionable benefits for a patient (such as children)? Is it compatible with the oath and professional ethics? I'd like to hear a discussion, not just a glorious march to somewhere and then we'll figure it out.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It’s not even about ratios, but intent. Spreading the virus is unintentional, and happens anyway whether vaxxed or not. Conflating it to something like abortion is just a fake argument from the idiot brigade.

Better to conflate examples of reckless life threatening choices - I'm pretty sure people who disregard red lights don't intend to kill anyone either. 

[ironstone]

It's  always better to have open discussion and debate as opposed to what's happening now, namely shutting down opposing views thanks largely to the very left leaning big tech platforms.

[Zeitgeist]

How about this?  Get on the job of approving the anti-viral pills.  Stop wasting health care resources on testing for a virus that is so widespread and mild for most people that getting the virus is no longer the issue.  The issue is ensuring that those who get very sick from it get the treatment they need.  End the screening which keeps perfectly healthy people who test positive at home.  People who aren't very sick aren't very sick.  Let's stop telling them that they are biohazards who need to be removed from society.  

Drop all vaccine passports and masking requirements immediately.  People who want to wear masks and get boosters every few months can do so.  Stop looking for scapegoats.  If our healthcare system can't manage supporting our highly vaccinated population, improve that system.  Our hospitals are not overwhelmed.  Much of what is causing our worker shortage is our endless testing and screening policies that make people stay home with the sniffles.  It's a joke.  Canada isn't a free country, but the citizens are so unaware of other possibilities because of the constant messaging from our governments and its cheerleaders in the media. 

I'm watching NFL games with packed stadiums of unmasked fans and coaches.  God Bless America!  The land of the free.  Canada is increasingly looking like a failed state.  Stop treating citizens like babies who can't handle any personal responsibility.  People have the tools to protect themselves.  End all restrictions immediately.  So sad what's happened to our once great nation.

 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

Did they say what the vaccination status of those who died were? 
 

I can’t seem to find stats from any province on the recent death stats

No, don't think they mentioned vax status.

[myata]

59 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Better to conflate examples of reckless life threatening choices

Between extreme naivite and plain old l..ing, where is the line? What is a "reckless choice" here? Is there even a causal connection, in each individual case? If so please prove it, not just words anybody can say anything neither paper, nor electromagnetic waves, bytes etc prevent it.

Is it common knowledge that each non vaccinated individual infects more, regardless of any circumstances? No.

Has it been proven that all or most non vaccinated infect significantly more than vaccinated? Not to my knowledge.

It is even true that every non vaccinated individual will infect more simply due to the factor of vaccination? Probably not.

Why saying it then?

Edited January 9, 2022 by myata

[OftenWrong]

30 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I'm watching NFL games with packed stadiums of unmasked fans and coaches.  God Bless America!

Last night was Saturday night. Formerly known as “Hockey Night in Canada”. Formerly.

What I saw was a game at 8 pm- Toronto Maple Larfs versus Colorado Avalanche. Game in Colorada, stadium completely packed. Majority of people in the crowd not wearing masks. Leafs leading 4-1, lost in overtime 5-4.

Next up at 10 pm, Ottawa versus Vancouver, in Van.

Game was cancelled due to covid. Not even allowed to play in an empty stadium.

Hopefully Canadians will notice the disparity. It is hockey after all.

 

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Better to conflate examples of reckless life threatening choices - I'm pretty sure people who disregard red lights don't intend to kill anyone either. 

It’s a poor comparison. Each issue needs to be carefully thought out. New laws, restrictions need to be challenged to ensure they are valid and the penalty is fair. It’s right to challenge it, wrong to blindly accept.

Government is a stupid and blunt instrument that must be forced into a confined space.

[Accountability Now]

22 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, don't think they mentioned vax status.

Just my opinion, but that typically doesn’t bode well for the vaxxers when they don’t publish data. Like they're hiding something. 
 

Again….just an opinion

[myata]

12 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

It’s right to challenge it, wrong to blindly accept.

Then, since when is it "right" now to say just about about anything, no matter if it agrees with the reality or not so much, only to justify the cause that only we can know and understand? Just before this recent thingy, didn't we have another word for that?

[myata]

Let

50 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

It’s right to challenge it, wrong to blindly accept.

Then, since when is it "right" now to say just about about anything, no matter if it agrees with the reality or not so much, only to justify the cause that only we can know and understand? Just before this recent thingy, didn't we have another word for that?