Yzermandius19 Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 48 minutes ago, G Huxley said: Yzermandius why do you find axial and post axial religions to be a cut above the pre-axial age and have you read Jaspers? I look at the level of morality in pre-axial religious societies and see it a cut below the level of morality after the axial religions come along the pagans were clearly far less moral than Christians for instance the historical record shows a major moral leap forward beginning in the axial age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Yes, love the gays in the same way you love divorcees and lobster eaters. 2. You don't understand morality... Having sex with someone who can't consent is rape. That's pretty basic.  I never referred to rape, but what if a man asked a young person of the same sex if it's ok to have sex and he said it was ok? Would you approve of it? If not, why not? That's pretty basic. It would be classified as paedophilia even if the young person agreed with it. In the case of beastility, what if the animal was not asked or never refused? Would that be OK with you if a man had sex with an animal if the animal did not resist or deny permission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, blackbird said: If someone can interpret the Bible (or more accurately ignore the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality) and approve of homosexuality and same-sex marriage, there is not limit to what they could approve of, including pedophilia and beastiality. If anything goes or whatever one claims makes him happy, why not eh? homosexuality not being a limit doesn't mean there is no limit that's ridiculous one can easily not be against homosexuality and be very much against both pedophilia and beastality the former is consensual, the latter are not if you can't see the obvious difference between them that doesn't mean any rational person can't see it most people have no trouble seeing the difference Edited January 2, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: . I'll start once you explain why it's ok for you to pick and choose scriptural guidelines.   If the Bible condemns homosexuality in numerous places in both the Old and New Testament, I think it should be pretty clear don't you think?  How is that picking and choosing scriptures? If the Bible repeats the same thing throughout, but still has no meaning to you, what would it take to convince you? A bolt of lightning from heaven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, blackbird said: 1. I never referred to rape, but what if a man asked a young person of the same sex if it's ok to have sex and he said it was ok? Would you approve of it? If not, why not? 2. In the case of beastility, what if the animal was not asked or never refused?  1. 2. Young people and animals are not properly able to give consent for obvious reasons. Remind me to never let you dogsit for me ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: homosexuality not being a limit doesn't mean there is no limit that's ridiculous one can easily not be against homosexuality and be very much against both pedophilia and beastality the former is consensual, the latter are not if you can't see the obvious difference between them that doesn't mean any rational person can't see it most people have no trouble seeing the difference What it boils down to is the Scripture repeatedly condemns homosexuality. So if one claims to believe the Bible, and still support homosexuality, they are lying or completely ignorant of a basic Biblical teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, blackbird said: 1. If the Bible condemns homosexuality in numerous places in both the Old and New Testament, I think it should be pretty clear don't you think?  How is that picking and choosing scriptures?  1. You're being purposefully obtuse now. I cited other edicts which you ignore.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. 2. Young people and animals are not properly able to give consent for obvious reasons. Remind me to never let you dogsit for me ? You still haven't explained how you can be a Christian and reject such a basic teaching in the Bible about homosexuality.  Saying it is just love when the Bible repeatedly condemns it just doesn't cut it. Edited January 2, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, blackbird said: What it boils down to is the Scripture repeatedly condemns homosexuality. So if one claims to believe the Bible, and still support homosexuality, they are lying or completely ignorant of a basic Biblical teaching. some scripture is more relevant than others including within the bible the scripture railing against homosexuality is not the important part the bible is contradictory in spots, so you can't say you agree with everything in the bible or you never read it the Bible is not a proscriptive how to manual that is always consistent you view the Bible like Muslims view the Quran, the Bible ain't the Quran, quit fronting Edited January 2, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: some scripture is more relevant than others including within the bible the scripture railing against homosexuality is not the important part the bible is contradictory in spots, so you can't say you agree with everything in the bible or you never read it No, the Bible is not contradictory. It is clear in both the Old and New Testament in the link I gave. There is nothing to debate about it. It is just a question as to whether you accept what it says. Edited January 3, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, blackbird said: No, the Bible is not contradictory on the subject of homosexuality. It is clear in both the Old and New Testament in the link I gave. There is nothing to debate about it. It is just a question as to whether you accept what it says. Jesus didn't even accept all scripture why should I? Edited January 2, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Jesus didn't even accept all scripture why should I? I think he did. The Old Testament he accepted. There was no New Testament while he was alive on earth. It was completed later. Quote  18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Unquote Matthew 5:18, 19 KJV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, blackbird said: I think he did. The Old Testament he accepted. There was no New Testament while he was alive on earth. It was completed later. Quote  18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Unquote Matthew 5:18, 19 KJV Jesus deviated from tradition when he knew it was right blindly accepting all religious tradition is not in keeping with the example of Jesus if Jesus had done that, then there would be no Christians, he'd be just another Jewish Rabbi there would have been no New Testament the Jews turned on Jesus, because he didn't agree with everything in the Old Testament that's why they wanted to crucify him Edited January 2, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Jesus deviated from tradition when he knew it was right blindly accepting all religious tradition is not in keeping with the example of Jesus if Jesus had done that, then there would be no Christians, only Jews The church age did not begin until after the crucifixion. It started as recorded in the book of Acts, chapter one. The Old Testament is a history of God's dealing with the nation of Israel. The New Testament is all about the church beginning and church being composed of Jews and gentiles. So the New Testament is about a different period or different age. But there are lessons to be learned from the Old Testament, universal truths that don't change such as marriage being between a man and a woman only.  For example, God created Adam and Eve, and said to Adam and Eve go forth and multiply. He never said this to Adam and Steve, which would be an impossibility anyway. God created man and woman with the special ability to procreate. This is not so with two people of the same sex; therefore it is illogical to say same-sex marriage is natural or normal. It was never ordained by God to be that way. They cannot pro-create. If is simply man who ignores God and indulges in hedonism or self indulgence or pleasures of the flesh. Quote 27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Unquote Genesis 1:27, 28 KJV Edited January 2, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, blackbird said: The church age did not begin until after the crucifixion. It started as recorded in the book of Acts, chapter one. The Old Testament is a history of God's dealing with the nation of Israel. The New Testament is all about the church beginning and church being composed of Jews and gentiles. So the New Testament is about a different period or different age. But there are lessons to be learned from the Old Testament, universal truths that don't change such as marriage being between a man and a woman only. yeah the Old Testament contains a lot of wisdom the blantant homophobia isn't the wise part Jesus did not blindly follow scripture he was a radical reformer who had different interpretations and often disagreed with the Old Testament which predated him he rebelled against it and was crucifed for it Edited January 2, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: yeah the Old Testament contains a lot of wisdom the blantant homophobia isn't the wise part Jesus did not blindly follow scripture he was a radical reformer who had different interpretations and often disagreed with the Old Testament which predated him he rebelled against it and was crucifed for that He was crucified because he claimed to be God. The Jewish leaders at the time would not accept that. Watch a good movie free on the internet called "The Life of Jesus". Google it or put it in a search window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, blackbird said: He was crucified because he claimed to be God. The Jewish leaders at the time would not accept that. Watch a good movie free on the internet called "The Life of Jesus". Google it or put it in a search window. he disagreed with the Jews on some things and they crucified them for it the Old Testament is the Judeo in Judeo-Christian the New Testament is the Christian in Judeo-Christian the Jews are the one's who agree with everything in the Old Testament, not Jesus Edited January 2, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: he disagreed with the Jews on some things and they crucified them for it the Jews are the one's who agree with everything in the Old Testament, not Jesus Jesus agreed with the Old Testament in the verse I quoted from Matthew ch5. He is the God of both the O.T. and the N.T. He is the God of the Jews in the O.T. times.  quote  1  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; unquote Hebrews 1:1, 2 KJV quote 1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2  The same was in the beginning with God. 3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. unquote John 1:1-3 KJV  quote 14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. unquote John 1:14 KJV The word (the O.T. and the N.T.) is here referred to as the Word and the Word refers to Jesus in vs 14. Edited January 2, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, blackbird said: Jesus agreed with the Old Testament in the verse I quoted from Matthew ch5. He is the God of both the O.T. and the N.T. He is the God of the Jews in the O.T. times.  your views on homosexuality are far more Jewish than they are Christian you seem to favor the Old Testament over the New Testament as well, in terms of the way you view God you sound more Jewish than Christian you're all fire and brimstone retribution for sins over turn the other cheek forgiveness of those sins your Matthew quote emphasizes forgiveness and yet you all you can see is a condemnation of homosexuality, very odd Edited January 2, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: your views on homosexuality are far more Jewish than they are Christian you seem to favor the Old Testament over the New Testament as well, in terms of the way you view God you sound more Jewish than Christian you're all fire and brimstone retribution for sins over turn the other cheek forgiveness of those sins No, that is not correct.  The N.T. teaches the same thing on homosexuality. Do a search and look up the verses on it. I never said anything about "retribution for sins". The Bible doesn't say to turn the other cheek to things that the Bible condemns. You are making up something that is not there. Of course there is forgiveness for those who ask for it and repent the same as for any other sin. We are all guilty of sins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said: the historical record shows a major moral leap forward beginning in the axial age The fossil record shows Neanderthal's burying their dead in ways that indicate feelings of tenderness and love towards one another. I bet this moral leap forward occurred (evolved) a lot earlier than most religions will ever be willing to admit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Banana Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 China or Bible studies . . . .wtf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 3, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 5 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: I look at the level of morality in pre-axial religious societies and see it a cut below the level of morality after the axial religions come along the pagans were early far less moral than Christians for instance the historical record shows a major moral leap forward beginning in the axial age What is "axial" age or "axial" Christians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 3, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said: China or Bible studies    .wtf. I plead guilty. Trying to show the immorality or evil nature of liberal, left thinking and policies. All roads eventually must lead to the Bible as the source of truth.  sola scriptura Michael's Catholismo takes it's lead from other sources like secularism, which is just man's opinion. Edited January 3, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 4 hours ago, eyeball said: The fossil record shows Neanderthal's burying their dead in ways that indicate feelings of tenderness and love towards one another. I bet this moral leap forward occurred (evolved) a lot earlier than most religions will ever be willing to admit. nope the religions prior were quite barbaric in comparison to today only those who are unaware of the historical record think the current level of morality is the norm rather than a major exception in history they don't want to believe that the kind of religion has any impact on morality, but it most certainly does human sacrifice used to be the norm before better religions came along and said the was a bad idea hell the Aztecs were still doing that when the Spanish arrived Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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