Jump to content

Ontario Court declares that the Ontario Math Proficiency Test is Unconstitutional


Recommended Posts

It’s important to remember that behind the scenes Russia and China perceive each other as threats.  Don’t forget that Russia essentially took a chunk of Manchuria, including what became Vladivostok.  They were somewhat united by ideology until communism collapsed in the Soviet Union.  Russia became an oligarchy kleptocracy.  China remained totalitarian and backstopped its new form of capitalism with currency controls that allow it to endlessly prime its economy, not unlike our central banks’ quantitative easing.  China’s system is more controlling.  China’s people are less free and less creative because of the emphasis of the hive over individual rights.  Basically it’s a less desirable country to live in.  Her military is also weaker than the US’s.

However, China is making huge inroads in Africa by supplying infrastructure and holding countries hostage through financing.   It’s certainly building cutting edge infrastructure through the Belt and Road Initiative and its high speed rail network.  Because government messes too much with markets, however, China does stupid things like builds cities of towers based on central planning rather than market demand.  China is full of white elephant buildings and overblown grands projets, like the Olympics.  Still, they’re gaining influence and power.  Canada is quite arguably following China’s model with restrictions on travel and other Covid mandates.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/30/2021 at 10:02 PM, Nationalist said:

Huh. 

You really like the idea of an independent Quebec, don't you?

So...lowering academic requirements to become a teacher in Ontario is a bloody dumb idea.! 

About as dumb as taking a desire for maintaining Quebec's "identity" so far, that you chase businesses away and harm your own people and prosperity. 

And that's really the bottom line for that.

It's your perception that is wrong. The Quebec's identity is its strength. Our originality often serves us well and better than trying to be just like anyone else. Money has no language. Money talks its own language. In the economy, it's like in the nature, emptiness is easily filled. If one does not want to comply to the language rules and rather choose to suicide its business, someone else will take its place. As simple as this. 

 

You think it hurt us in 1976 when these wealthy anglos left the province with their money? On the contrary. The french people took the left space and the french were having better conditions afterward. The competition is strong and the idiots are always easily replaced.                                                                               

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/24/2021 at 6:43 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. He observed that people of a certain race have failed the test at a higher rate than others.  He didn't say it was intentional, ie. that people invited the test to discriminate or that people of that race are inferior.  The focus is on the result.

2. Not really, no.

3. "we would expect that the ratio of success is mostly the same for every one else." is what we're talking about.  I am an Ontarian, and your expectation hasn't come to pass here or in a lot of other places so other steps are being taken.

4. It will solve another problem in the short term, which is representation in the classroom.

5. Well, in life this happens a lot.  I understand, from business, that sometimes finding a root cause is a long term task and you therefore need to do something else in the short term.  

6. I would characterize this situation as: the system was changed to assess a math skill, but in doing so it did more harm to the system than good so they worked through the system to remove it.  They will assess the removal of this test and its effects but given that it's a simple and short-term fix it should be immediately impactful and obvious.  I don't agree that the teachers are 'weaker' because the core ability that a teacher needs is to be able to 'teach'.  I think the impacts inn the classroom are probably equally obvious.

7. This sounds wrong.  I think statistics make up more than you are saying, unless you are a 'problematic' black person who goes down on one knee and angers white fans.

8. You only brought the students in at the end.  Good math skills aren't the definitive measure of how well a teacher will do in the classroom, that's a bad assumption.

9. The judge gave a legal opinion.  You can agree or disagree.

 

1. Yes he does and you do it as well. You believe those people can't pass the tests and the only solution is to remove the tests. You wrote it black on white.

3. well, it's an area where it is difficult argue since I am not from Ontario. Here the colored people can pass the tests but, you are saying they can't in Ontario. It is your call. I dare you to explain me why. What is that condition that would explain why the colored people can't succeed in Ontario no matter what?

4. And why it has to be done at the expense of quality?

5. Neither from the judge, nor from you, I could contemplated long term solutions.

6. Obvious to you. I do not see the gain of having weaker teachers.

7. what? never mind.

8. We are not discussing about the acceptance level for test results, we are talking about totally removing the tests.

9. ok, I guess we covered it all up then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Benz said:

It's your perception that is wrong. The Quebec's identity is its strength. Our originality often serves us well and better than trying to be just like anyone else. Money has no language. Money talks its own language. In the economy, it's like in the nature, emptiness is easily filled. If one does not want to comply to the language rules and rather choose to suicide its business, someone else will take its place. As simple as this. 

 

You think it hurt us in 1976 when these wealthy anglos left the province with their money? On the contrary. The french people took the left space and the french were having better conditions afterward. The competition is strong and the idiots are always easily replaced.                                                                               

Actually...the language of business...and technology...is English.

What's been going on in Quebec since 76 has been painful to les quebecois and hasn't been beneficial to the nation.

The whole thing has been a self-inflicted wound brought about by ruthless politicians seeking power.

Edited by Nationalist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Benz said:

The Quebec's identity is its strength. Our originality often serves us well and better than trying to be just like anyone else. Money has no language. Money talks its own language. 

You think it hurt us in 1976 when these wealthy Anglos left the province with their money? On the contrary. The French people took the left space and the French were having better conditions afterward. The competition is strong and the idiots are always easily replaced.                                                                               

Transfer/Equalization payments to Quebec . . . . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Actually...the language of business...and technology...is English.

What's been going on in Quebec since 76 has been painful to les quebecois and hasn't been beneficial to the nation.

The whole thing has been a self-inflicted wound brought about by ruthless politicians seeking power.

This is not what I see and experience. On the contrary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Benz said:

1. Yes he does and you do it as well. You believe those people can't pass the tests and the only solution is to remove the tests. You wrote it black on white.

3. well, it's an area where it is difficult argue since I am not from Ontario. Here the colored people can pass the tests but, you are saying they can't in Ontario. It is your call. I dare you to explain me why. What is that condition that would explain why the colored people can't succeed in Ontario no matter what?

4. And why it has to be done at the expense of quality?

5. Neither from the judge, nor from you, I could contemplated long term solutions.

6. Obvious to you. I do not see the gain of having weaker teachers.

7. what? never mind.

8. We are not discussing about the acceptance level for test results, we are talking about totally removing the tests.

9. ok, I guess we covered it all up then.

1. None of what you wrote contradicts what I wrote.

3.  Look, I absolutely don't care but are you seriously using the term coloured people?

I doubt that you have any similar tests in your province.

4. Because having diverse teachers is more important than having ALL teachers (art, kindergarten, music) pass high school calculus.

5. I don't get what you are saying.

6. You still haven't explained why an elementary school music teacher needs to know math.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately such policies reinforce Quebec’s image as a place of radical measures and weird shit.  Curfews, fascist language laws, punitive measures against people who don’t prescribe to a government health program or who wear religious dress at work.  I love aspects of Quebec, but it’s policies like these that make it a less desirable place to live.  I get that Quebecers decide how they want to run their province and I’m not a fan of the Canadian federal government either these days.  I just find some of this stuff very banana republic.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/21/2021 at 10:01 PM, Michael Hardner said:

According to the Court, there are discrepancies in successfulness at this test across races, and that means it is racist by itself.

QOC the big problem with your post is that the article doesn't say that.  I'm going to have to add this to the list of trumped up allegations.

What it says is that certain races were failing the math test, so they got rid of it so they would still have teachers of that race

Bro:

https://globalnews.ca/news/8511475/ontario-teachers-math-test-government-fight-court-ruling/
 

Quote

TORONTO — The Ontario government is trying to fight a court ruling that found its mandatory math test for new teachers is unconstitutional.

Ontario’s Divisional Court last month struck down the math proficiency test as infringing equality provisions in the charter because it found the test had a disproportionate impact on racialized teachers.

This is the dumbest court ruling of all time.  The ruling says merit is racially biased and unconstitutional, this is the precedent it's setting.

Edited by Moonlight Graham
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/22/2021 at 5:24 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. I agree that the goal is to teach children.  Maybe assessment of math skills isn't a good measure of that.

4. You disparaged wokism, but you didn't really define it.  And moral outrage is always unreasonable when it's somebody else's morals.  

If elementary school teachers teach math, which they do, maybe you want teachers who have a basic proficiency in math.  ON kids are falling behind much of the world in math scores.  If I were a brown or black parent i'd want my kid to have a math teacher with basic competence rather than making sure they're also brown or black.

This is wokism.  You are defending woke.  You are woke.

Boards already have the constitutional right to have affirmative action programs to hire more qualified POC employees.  Now the court doesn't want qualifications because they discriminate based on race.  What a joke.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If they teach math.

I agree.   So the gov policy is likely flawed.  However, it's still a  constitutional policy.  The court ruling is terrible and way, way outside their bounds.  An employer decides what their merit requirements should be, not the courts.  And there is no racial discrimination happening here whatsoever.  If there is then virtually all of job hirings by all employers are discriminatory.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Tell a friend

    Love Repolitics.com - Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      10,712
    • Most Online
      1,403

    Newest Member
    nyralucas
    Joined
  • Recent Achievements

    • Jeary earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Venandi went up a rank
      Apprentice
    • Gaétan earned a badge
      Very Popular
    • Dictatords earned a badge
      First Post
    • babetteteets earned a badge
      One Year In
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...