Something to reflect on.

[betsy]

I had gotten permission from the author (who posted this in another forum) to copy paste his thought-provoking opinion regarding what he observes and how he feels about his homeland.  How many silent Americans feel this way, I wonder?

 

I never dreamed that I would have to face the prospect of not living in the United States of America, at least not the one I have known all my life. I have never wished to live anywhere else. This is my home and I was privileged to be born here. But today I woke up and as I had my morning coffee, I realized that everything is about to change. No matter how I vote, no matter what.

I say, something evil has invaded our nation, and our lives are never going to be the same. I have been confused by the hostility of family and friends. I look at people I have known all my life--so hate-filled that they agree with opinions they would never express as their own. I think that I may well have entered the Twilight Zone. We have become a nation that has lost its collective mind! You can't justify this insanity:

• If a guy pretends to be a woman, you are required to pretend with him.
• Somehow it’s un-American for the census to count how many Americans are in America.
• Russians influencing our elections are bad, but illegals voting in our elections are good.
• It was cool for Joe Biden to "blackmail" the President of Ukraine, but it’s an impeachable offense if Donald Trump inquires about it.
• Twenty is too young to drink a beer, but eighteen is old enough to vote.
• People who have never owned slaves should pay slavery reparations to people who have never been slaves.
• People who have never been to college should pay the debts of college students who took out huge loans for their degrees.
• Immigrants with tuberculosis and polio are welcome, but you’d better be able to prove your dog is vaccinated.
• Irish doctors and German engineers who want to immigrate to the US must go through a rigorous vetting process, but any illiterate gang-bangers who jump the southern fence are welcome.
• $5 billion for border security is too expensive, but $1.5 trillion for “free” health care is not.
• If you cheat to get into college you go to prison, but if you cheat to get into the country you go to college for free.
• People who say there is no such thing as gender are demanding a female President.
• We see other countries going Socialist and collapsing, but it seems like a great plan to us.
• Some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, and other people are not held responsible for what they are doing right now.
• Criminals are caught-and-released to hurt more people, but stopping them is bad because it's a violation of THEIR rights.
• And pointing out all this hypocrisy somehow makes us "racists"?!

Nothing makes sense anymore - no values, no morals, and no civility. People are dying of a Chinese virus, but it's racist to refer to it as Chinese even though it began in China. We are clearly living in an upside down world where right is wrong and wrong is right, where moral is immoral and immoral is moral, where good is evil and evil is good, where killing murderers is wrong but killing unborn babies is AOK!

Wake up America, the great unsinkable ship Titanic America has hit an iceberg, is taking on water, and is sinking fast. Speak up!

[betsy]

It'd be interesting to see how the next presidential election will turn out.

[BubberMiley]

All strawmen. Each point is untrue and meant to sow hate for your neighbours. You should be ashamed.

Merry Christmas. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by BubberMiley

[Michael Hardner]

39 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

All strawmen. Each point is untrue and meant to sow hate for your neighbours. You should be ashamed.

Merry Christmas. 

Well, the weird thing is that they decry the morality of some unspecified ghost without offering any kind of response as to what they should do instead.

"Progress" happens when people engage in "politics" and work out problems including social problems.   Government doesn't need to get involved.

Two can play it that game:
• If someone feels that the gender they were born with doesn't suit them, they should shut up and never talk about it.  If they do talk about it, they can expect to be mocked, fired and beaten for expressing themselves.
• Government agencies should not engage in practical census activity if it offends people who hate immigrants
• We should let foreign governments install traitors to the presidency
• We should let Presidents withhold funds to foreign governments to help their political campaigns
• The voting age should be 21
• People who still suffer from the effects of slavery a century later should be ignored and mocked for complaining
• University should be so expensive that we can't afford to educate the future generations of innovators
• Dogs should be allowed to get communicable diseases
• The US should be the only country in the Western World without a refugee program
• Healthcare should not be provided, by the wealthiest nation on earth, if every other wealthy country and many poor ones do provide it
• People should be allowed to cheat to get into college
• There shouldn't be a Female president, because people who support transgender like that idea
• Government with massive deficits under Trump, subsidizing military contractors who contribute to politicians to ensure they continue to profit are not socialism
• Government shouldn't help people ever
• We should put people in life for smoking marijuana
• Racists and fake Christians should continue to run the country

[ironstone]

4 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

All strawmen. Each point is untrue and meant to sow hate for your neighbours. You should be ashamed.

Merry Christmas. 

Basically all of that is happening in the US now but I would just point out it's roughly half the population and not everyone...yet.

[sharkman]

It seems that Bubber and Michael’s only role on this forum is an attempt to increase posts and traffic. 
 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by sharkman

[BubberMiley]

Someone has to prevent it from becoming an echo chamber of Qanon-believing halfwits.

[Shady]

23 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

Someone has to prevent it from becoming an echo chamber of Qanon-believing halfwits.

They’re almost as bad as the BlueAnon believing halfwits!

[Shady]

On 12/17/2021 at 10:16 AM, betsy said:

I had gotten permission from the author (who posted this in another forum) to copy paste his thought-provoking opinion regarding what he observes and how he feels about his homeland.  How many silent Americans feel this way, I wonder?

 

I never dreamed that I would have to face the prospect of not living in the United States of America, at least not the one I have known all my life. I have never wished to live anywhere else. This is my home and I was privileged to be born here. But today I woke up and as I had my morning coffee, I realized that everything is about to change. No matter how I vote, no matter what.

I say, something evil has invaded our nation, and our lives are never going to be the same. I have been confused by the hostility of family and friends. I look at people I have known all my life--so hate-filled that they agree with opinions they would never express as their own. I think that I may well have entered the Twilight Zone. We have become a nation that has lost its collective mind! You can't justify this insanity:

• If a guy pretends to be a woman, you are required to pretend with him.
• Somehow it’s un-American for the census to count how many Americans are in America.
• Russians influencing our elections are bad, but illegals voting in our elections are good.
• It was cool for Joe Biden to "blackmail" the President of Ukraine, but it’s an impeachable offense if Donald Trump inquires about it.
• Twenty is too young to drink a beer, but eighteen is old enough to vote.
• People who have never owned slaves should pay slavery reparations to people who have never been slaves.
• People who have never been to college should pay the debts of college students who took out huge loans for their degrees.
• Immigrants with tuberculosis and polio are welcome, but you’d better be able to prove your dog is vaccinated.
• Irish doctors and German engineers who want to immigrate to the US must go through a rigorous vetting process, but any illiterate gang-bangers who jump the southern fence are welcome.
• $5 billion for border security is too expensive, but $1.5 trillion for “free” health care is not.
• If you cheat to get into college you go to prison, but if you cheat to get into the country you go to college for free.
• People who say there is no such thing as gender are demanding a female President.
• We see other countries going Socialist and collapsing, but it seems like a great plan to us.
• Some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, and other people are not held responsible for what they are doing right now.
• Criminals are caught-and-released to hurt more people, but stopping them is bad because it's a violation of THEIR rights.
• And pointing out all this hypocrisy somehow makes us "racists"?!

Nothing makes sense anymore - no values, no morals, and no civility. People are dying of a Chinese virus, but it's racist to refer to it as Chinese even though it began in China. We are clearly living in an upside down world where right is wrong and wrong is right, where moral is immoral and immoral is moral, where good is evil and evil is good, where killing murderers is wrong but killing unborn babies is AOK!

Wake up America, the great unsinkable ship Titanic America has hit an iceberg, is taking on water, and is sinking fast. Speak up!

This is so true.  Progressives are ruining society.  A great example is the  defund the police movement.  Cities all across the unites states are seeing huge crime waves.  Progressivism is not compatible with a civil society.

[WestCanMan]

On 12/17/2021 at 7:16 AM, betsy said:

• People who have never owned slaves should pay slavery reparations to people who have never been slaves.
 

This isn't even accurate.

More like "People who are descended from slaves in America might be forced to pay reparations to people whose ancestors owned slaves in America".

That's because you can't just look at someone's skin and know whether or not their ancestors owned slaves. Black people owned slaves, and there will be people whose ancestor was black or white and after 4 or 5 generations some of their ancestors are of the opposite colour.

For example, Kamala Harris is the daughter of a Stanford University prof whose grandmother was a slave owner, but Kamala's milking her skin colour as if her GG and all of her other ancestors were in chains all of their lives. 

Snopes gives that slave-owner GG claim an "unproven" label because they couldn't find any record of who her GG was (in Jamaica), but they're just lying because her dad was the person who made the claim, and most people can be relied upon to know who their own grandparents were. Especially people who had the wherewithal to become educated enough to be a professor in an ivy league skool. His statement actually stands as the statement of record until it's disproven. 

I'm sure that most Americans are a mix of people who owned slaves in America, were slaves in America, and other people who owned or were slaves in other nations, further back in time. 

The whole concept is a joke now. 

[BubberMiley]

4 hours ago, Shady said:

This is so true.  Progressives are ruining society.  A great example is the  defund the police movement.  Cities all across the unites states are seeing huge crime waves.  Progressivism is not compatible with a civil society.

Have the police been defunded in these cities you speak of? Do you have a cite about this "huge crime wave"? The data I have seen indicates crime is down, although gun homicides are up significantly. This is, of course, in line with the massive increase in guns, which would be difficult to pin on progressives..

[betsy]

On 12/18/2021 at 7:32 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Well, the weird thing is that they decry the morality of some unspecified ghost without offering any kind of response as to what they should do instead.

"Progress" happens when people engage in "politics" and work out problems including social problems.   Government doesn't need to get involved.

Two can play it that game:
• If someone feels that the gender they were born with doesn't suit them, they should shut up and never talk about it.  If they do talk about it, they can expect to be mocked, fired and beaten for expressing themselves.
• Government agencies should not engage in practical census activity if it offends people who hate immigrants
• We should let foreign governments install traitors to the presidency
• We should let Presidents withhold funds to foreign governments to help their political campaigns
• The voting age should be 21
• People who still suffer from the effects of slavery a century later should be ignored and mocked for complaining
• University should be so expensive that we can't afford to educate the future generations of innovators
• Dogs should be allowed to get communicable diseases
• The US should be the only country in the Western World without a refugee program
• Healthcare should not be provided, by the wealthiest nation on earth, if every other wealthy country and many poor ones do provide it
• People should be allowed to cheat to get into college
• There shouldn't be a Female president, because people who support transgender like that idea
• Government with massive deficits under Trump, subsidizing military contractors who contribute to politicians to ensure they continue to profit are not socialism
• Government shouldn't help people ever
• We should put people in life for smoking marijuana
• Racists and fake Christians should continue to run the country

 

I don't think the author had said anything about not being able to express one's self.  You cannot stop insults or mocks either - not that I'm saying I condone them. There is a reaction/consequence to everything we do or say....that's just a fact of life.

  You can't legislate this or that, without erasing vital constitutional rights.  We have a right to our opinion.  That's one of the things that's happening right now in the US.  Democracy is really getting an overhaul, and the USA is becoming undemocratic.

 

I don't think the author has said anything about not having a female president.  He's pointing out the contradiction.  If we want to make gender unimportant -then why do we demand a specific gender for the presidency?  The first female.....the first gay......the first transgender......why do we make a big deal out of gender?  And they say,  it shouldn't be about gender?  Gimme a break!

That no one seems to see this blatant hypocrisy from those who claim to want to make gender irrelevant - it's just an example that  does indeed show  something has gone awry with the collective mind.

 

 

As for black issue - how is a dole-out money going to affect them?   Will money erase it?  No.  That there is discrimination from all is real.   Is this about money?   A pay-out?  Cashing in? Are we saying, "here.  pay-out! take this.   This should shut you up."

We need to erase discrimination - not just shifting the shoe to the other foot, and give a "pay-back" to a certain group - in this case, white people.     Otherwise, a couple of centuries from now - the future generation might be paying reparations to white people!  

Anyway, what are we?   African hutu and tutsi wannabe?  Is that what the collective mentality is shaping into?

 

 

Check out your knee-jerk rebuttal points.  They're mostly irrelevant to what he said. You're missing the OP's point.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by betsy

[betsy]

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

This isn't even accurate.

More like "People who are descended from slaves in America might be forced to pay reparations to people whose ancestors owned slaves in America".

That's because you can't just look at someone's skin and know whether or not their ancestors owned slaves. Black people owned slaves, and there will be people whose ancestor was black or white and after 4 or 5 generations some of their ancestors are of the opposite colour.

For example, Kamala Harris is the daughter of a Stanford University prof whose grandmother was a slave owner, but Kamala's milking her skin colour as if her GG and all of her other ancestors were in chains all of their lives. 

Snopes gives that slave-owner GG claim an "unproven" label because they couldn't find any record of who her GG was (in Jamaica), but they're just lying because her dad was the person who made the claim, and most people can be relied upon to know who their own grandparents were. Especially people who had the wherewithal to become educated enough to be a professor in an ivy league skool. His statement actually stands as the statement of record until it's disproven. 

I'm sure that most Americans are a mix of people who owned slaves in America, were slaves in America, and other people who owned or were slaves in other nations, further back in time. 

The whole concept is a joke now. 

 

 

His point is accurate.  He's not talking about ancestry. 

He's talking about people who NEVER OWNED SLAVES, and WERE NEVER SLAVES THEMSELVES.  In other words, the reparations come from, and will be given to  people living today, as we speak.

 

People will be penalized and be compensated for something they had nothing to do with, or had no control over.   People who were not even born, or around in those dark days.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by betsy

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, betsy said:

 

 

His point is accurate.  He's not talking about ancestry. 

He's talking about people who NEVER OWNED SLAVES, and WERE NEVER SLAVES THEMSELVES.  In other words, the reparations come from, and will be given to  people living today, as we speak.

 

People will be penalized and be compensated for something they had nothing to do with, or had no control over.   People who were not even born, or around in those dark days.

 

For sure, but it's still not really an accurate reflection of anything. A lot of people are a mix of 'descended from slaves & slavers', and a lot of the people who weren't slaves or slavers in America descended from those people in other countries.

The classic assumption is that almost everyone who is black is descended from slaves but it couldn't be further from the truth. Black slave-owners existed even in the US, but they were common all over the world and at various points in history they were the world's biggest slavers. 

There are also a lot of people who weren't 'slaves', per se, but their lives were no better. People were drafted to fight in wars in their teens, people worked in coal mines for not much money back before unions became a thing, etc. 

What's worse? Being a slave until you're 50 and having grandchildren, or getting drafted and then dying in the mud of Viet Nam at 18 yrs old? 

Not everyone can be compensated. It's just all a joke. 

[betsy]

On 12/21/2021 at 4:08 PM, WestCanMan said:

For sure, but it's still not really an accurate reflection of anything. A lot of people are a mix of 'descended from slaves & slavers', and a lot of the people who weren't slaves or slavers in America descended from those people in other countries.

The classic assumption is that almost everyone who is black is descended from slaves but it couldn't be further from the truth. Black slave-owners existed even in the US, but they were common all over the world and at various points in history they were the world's biggest slavers. 

There are also a lot of people who weren't 'slaves', per se, but their lives were no better. People were drafted to fight in wars in their teens, people worked in coal mines for not much money back before unions became a thing, etc. 

What's worse? Being a slave until you're 50 and having grandchildren, or getting drafted and then dying in the mud of Viet Nam at 18 yrs old? 

Not everyone can be compensated. It's just all a joke. 

It's not about ancestry or whether their lives is better this way than that!   Who can judge and decide for a person what a "better" life is?  That 18 year old may have died in the mud somewhere in Vietnam, but we don't know if he had welcomed being a soldier - if that's what he had mapped out to start with, and planned to do in the first place.   Furthermore, which is better - dying a hero's death at 18, or dying on the streets of LA - pumped up full of drugs at 18? 

That's irrelevant to this author's reflection., which is in the OP

 

That is YOUR reflection - that's okay.  But it does not make the author's own reflection, inaccurate.

 

His reflection stated, and this is all I read from what he said (unless I'm missing some parts of it);

 

• People who have never owned slaves should pay slavery reparations to people who have never been slaves.

 

He is reflecting on a SIMPLE irony. That is accurate!

At least, that's what I understand by this call for reparation. WE  - who had never owned any slaves - whether we are white or yellow, red or brown - PAY TO BLACKS LIVING TODAY!

 

 

Lol - what other crazy ideas would they come up based on that precedent?  Descendants of rapists, shooters, etc.,  will pay reparation to descendants of raped victims, shooters, etc?

Ala - ME TOO.....but this time, they'll call it......US TOO? ?

Edited December 23, 2021 by betsy

[betsy]

For something they want to call "progressive and MOVING FORWARD - they seem to dwell  and get so hung up with the past.  

You can't move forward without stumbling,  if you keep looking back every step of the way. 

It's one way to learn from it - but it's another to keep wearing it like an albatross on your neck, and forcing others to do the same!

 

It's kinda hard to have a reconciliation if we keep pointing and wagging an accusatory fingers collectively at everyone digging up the past.  That doesn't help in working out a marriage - it won't work in any relationship you may want to build.

  Most, if not all people involved in that past are dead!  Focus on the present. 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by betsy

[ironstone]

On 12/20/2021 at 8:14 PM, BubberMiley said:

Have the police been defunded in these cities you speak of? Do you have a cite about this "huge crime wave"? The data I have seen indicates crime is down, although gun homicides are up significantly. This is, of course, in line with the massive increase in guns, which would be difficult to pin on progressives..

Will Blacks Survive the ‘Racial Reckoning’? - Ann Coulter

At least four Black women and girls were murdered per day in the US last year | Gun crime | The Guardian

According to these articles crime is up in certain cities. San Francisco mayor London Breed seems to have changed her tune. Crime was surging in that city and she , like many Democrats strongly favoured defunding the police. Now she might be seeing the error of her ways.

Behind London Breed's 'defund the police' turnaround in San Francisco (nypost.com)

Massive surge in crime rates may doom 'defund the Police' movement and Dems' chances in 2022 (bizpacreview.com)

[eyeball]

On 12/17/2021 at 7:20 AM, betsy said:

It'd be interesting to see how the next presidential election will turn out.

Careful what you wish for.

Quote

 

Research identifies at least 262 bills were introduced in 41 states this year with the intent to hijack the election process

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/23/voter-suppression-election-interference-republicans

 

Until such time as the partisan fever that's settled over US politics has run its course and broken America would be well advised to get an unbiased international team of election officials to conduct its elections.

How many gallons of finger dye to ensure voters can't vote twice would it take?

Edited December 25, 2021 by eyeball

[OftenWrong]

20 hours ago, eyeball said:

 America would be well advised to get an unbiased international team

Yeah... unbiased... international

 

That team would have to wear hazmat suits, to avoid being infected by the non-unbiased groups. 

Who would pick or assemble them? Americans should be allowed vote on it...

ideology vs reality...

....

US is the emperor, surrounded by generals.

....

Et tu, Brutus

 

[eyeball]

47 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Yeah... unbiased... international

Globalist communist of course...

Quote

 

That team would have to wear hazmat suits, to avoid being infected by the non-unbiased groups. 

Who would pick or assemble them? Americans should be allowed vote on it...

 

Of course they should, in fact they'd likely still run the election and it would be monitored by international observers.  Lots of countries that have issues with ID and voter integrity been doing this for years.  Election ink is non-toxic so there'd no need for hazmat measures. It stains your finger for weeks so it would be easy enough to recount votes.

Quote

 

ideology vs reality...

....

 

No, Democrats vs Republicans mostly with a few independents I suppose.

Quote

 

US is the emperor, surrounded by generals.

....

 

No the US is a mess, surrounded, partly at least, by a concerned world.

Quote

Et tu, Brutus

Nowhere near to the same degree, not even close.

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

Globalist communist of course...

Or whatever you’d like to call them. You may think France and Germany are also good “friends” of the US that would never meddle somehow in US electoral affairs. Laws, yes. You may think it all you like.

What I said, in a nutshell is who’s watching the watchers. You get that? Your non-partisan committee does not exist. Not in today’s political, web-enabled society.

Maybe find some mountain-men who live in log cabins and yet are university educated. Chances are there may be many of them out there.

Or criminals. Imprisoned felons, for instance. -They have no skin in this game.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

What I said, in a nutshell is who’s watching the watchers. You get that? Your non-partisan committee does not exist. Not in today’s political, web-enabled society.

How on Earth did your world become so partisan and black and white?  What committee? We were talking about election monitoring by international observers which has been practiced for decades.  It seems pretty obvious to me the people who organize and invite these monitors in will watch them plus domestic and foreign media.

Quote

Or whatever you’d like to call them. You may think France and Germany are also good “friends” of the US that would never meddle somehow in US electoral affairs. Laws, yes. You may think it all you like.

None of this entered my mind at all.  Good grief, you sure don't get facetiousness do you?  You can't even take a joke about your sensitivities to commies.   

Edited December 27, 2021 by eyeball

[OftenWrong]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

None of this entered my mind at all.

Hopefully now it has. I put the metaphorical bullet in your brain,, so you’ll have less “faith” in government.

It was the only humane thing left to do.

 

[Infidel Dog]

What the opinionator in the OP is describing is a shift in the Overton window. And yeah, that happens, has happened is happening and will happen. It's a boiling frog kind of thing but it's currently clarifying. What was mainstream is becoming fringe. What was fringe, mainstream. Wildly partisan types now think of themselves as moderates. 

And it reminds me of the famous Breitbart quote, "Politics is downstream from culture." Culture is changing and politics will exploit any new advantage.

[Infidel Dog]

Try this one. You should see what I'm talking about:

13 Happenings In 2021 That I Never Would Have Believed 5 Years Ago

Things Michael, Bubber and Eyeball want to ignore or pretend they're something else that not too long ago not even they would have dared support out loud or pretend they're no big deal.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Infidel Dog