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The push is on of the Omicron or Omnicon virus.


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3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Again: to prevent them catching and transmitting the disease (delta and earlier variants ) to people for whom it was dangerous. 

Again: the vaxx doesn't prevent the spread of covid any more than it prevents people from dying of covid.

They could give those kids golf balls and achieve very similar results. 

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The same may in all likelyhood hold true once they have a vaccine that helps prevent Omicron but if it keeps evoviing towards being less dangerous I won't be surprised if COVID vaccines in the future are intended more for older and vulnerable people.

When the vaccines first came out they weren't doing well at all, as evidenced in Israel, where the vaxx was probably less effective than granny's chicken soup. The excuse was "delta threw us a curve". They should have said a change-up, but whatever. They obviously know nothing about math or baseball. 

In any event, dbl vaxxed people, who weren't supposed to be getting sick, or very sick, or hospitalized, or end up in ICU, or die, were checking all the boxes. 

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There's a good reason why right-wingers are referred to as reactionary. This thread really really brings that home. 

Right wingers react to facts and science. So there you have it.

Leftists react like Pavlov's dogs/Stalin's useful idiots to whatever CTV says. Every thread really really brings that home. 

 

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1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

You are aware the viruses mutate in unpredictable ways?

I'm aware that you're unaware of the science of viral mutation by that sentence alone.

Do some homework. Come back and tell me what usually happens as viruses mutate.

If you get to that nugget yourself then hopefully you'll let it sink in, but if I tell you I know that you'll reject it evermore. Unless of curse, CTV says it, then it will be a revelation for you. 

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If they provide their best information in good faith and that reality changes, that doesn't make them liars.

No, that's not true at all. 

If they said that it's really, really likely that it's safe and it turned out to be unsafe then there's at least a chance that they told the truth.

They said that the vaccines were safe, in no uncertain terms, and they were not safe.

Kids "randomly died of pulmonary embolism (two), intracranial hemorrhage (two), heart failure (one), hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis and disseminated Mycobacterium chelonae infection (one), and unknown or pending further records (six) attacks within days of taking the vaccines." The vaxx made kids really unlucky. 

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But it makes you something.

It makes me right, as usual.

I speak English very well.

I know what it means when someone says that "the vaccines are safe" and then kids who take it get super unlucky and die of heart attacks and strokes within just a few days. That's not 'wrong', that's lying, 100%. In order to be 'wrong' they would have had to have left some wiggle room. 

Use the word 'warrant' on a contract and then be 'wrong'. See what happens. 

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1 hour ago, Shady said:

The people responsible for being unvaccinated and in the hospital is the person that decided not to get vaccinated and is in the hospital because of it.

Yes but they create consequences and responsibilities that still need to be addressed by society health authorities and officials with policies that in the case of COVID now call for vaccinating everyone they can including as many kids as possible - to protect the vulnerable which of course include the unvaccinated, health care workers and the health care system amongst other.  

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Recent report came out by Statscan that shows a disproportionate number of deaths among young people.

For every action there is a reaction, and this has to be taken into account to get the big picture.

Whatever measures we use to fight covid has to take into account the effects on the least among us. It’s not acceptable to ignore simply because “I’m alright, Jack”.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/sabrina-maddeaux-lockdowns-are-killing-young-canadians

Approximately 35 per cent –– or over 7,200 –– of total excess deaths occurred among those between 45 and 64 years old despite the demographic accounting for only seven per cent of COVID-related deaths. Perhaps even more disturbing, approximately 15.6 per cent –– or about 3,100 –– of Canada’s excess deaths occurred among those younger than 44, even though that youngest cohort accounts for only 0.7 per cent of the country’s COVID-19 deaths.

 

Edited by OftenWrong
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8 hours ago, eyeball said:

to protect the vulnerable which of course include the unvaccinated

Two logical flaws right here:

1. The fact of protection from spreading the infection has never been proven, only alleged by some calling themselves "experts". We need to do much better than that, to justify forcibly shooting something in someone's body against their will. How about an open discussion of the issue where arguments and evidence can be presented by every side, not only hand-picked exsperts with unknown professional achievements by unknown criteria, unless it's willingness to broadcast the truth of the day?

2. Even if a benefit to the society is established it's still not a valid reason to force individuals to comply with prescribed behavior, there are more checks and barriers. In fact there's a well-known word for the state forcing individuals to comply with prescribed behaviors and it isn't "democracy".

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9 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yes but they create consequences and responsibilities that still need to be addressed by society health authorities and officials with policies that in the case of COVID now call for vaccinating everyone they can including as many kids as possible - to protect the vulnerable which of course include the unvaccinated, health care workers and the health care system amongst other.  

The vulnerable can protect themselves by getting vaccinated and boosted, wearing masks and avoiding crowds.  There’s no need to risk children.

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12 hours ago, eyeball said:

If the majority of people being hospitalized are unvaccinated who's more responsible for that abuse?

This is no longer true and you need to stop lying about it.

Alberta, Dec. 24th - Unvaccinated cases: 1536, Vaccinated cases: 7425  Status Unknown: (whatever that means) 254

New cases are 80% in vaccinated people, another 1% in partially vaxxed.

Saskatchewan, Dec. 23rd - Unvaccinated cases: 78, Vaccinated cases: 113, Partially vaxxed: 3

Manitoba, Dec. 23rd - 556 new cases, 440 of which are in vaccinated people, 32 in partially vaxxed, 84 Unvaccinated

And again, as far as hospitalizations:

In SK, from August1-November 30 - 21308 cases in unvaxxed, with 192 deaths, giving a death rate of 0.9%

                                              2073 cases in partially vaxxed people, with 24 deaths, giving a death rate of 1.1%

                                               7545 cases in fully vaxxed people, with 115 deaths, giving a death rate of 1.5%

No one under the age of 20 died in the 4th wave.

Still waiting for someone to explain how the unvaccinated had the largest number of cases and yet the lowest death rate. 

Because this is happening all over the world right now.  The vaccinated are getting way sicker than the unvaccinated and dying at a higher rate.

I have 3 friends that are nurses and they all say that the hospitals are clogging up now with fully vaccinated people who either have covid and are presenting to emergency rooms in panic mode and fully vaccinated people with the sniffles who want to be tested.

It's not the unvaccinated clogging up hospitals, it's the vaccinated.  The stats never match what MSM is saying.  That's what I've noticed.

 

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9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

People just aren’t getting that sick with Omicron.  Do what you want to do to protect yourself.  All government restrictions and mandates should be ended immediately. We’ve forgotten the value of freedom.  

It's clear now that the first 2 jabs and the booster are all pretty much useless against Delta and Omicron.  So why are they being forced on people?  Why would I get 3 jabs from an experimental product that clearly didn't work for the rest of you?

The mandates and passports now are just a joke.

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3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/sabrina-maddeaux-lockdowns-are-killing-young-canadians

Approximately 35 per cent –– or over 7,200 –– of total excess deaths occurred among those between 45 and 64 years old despite the demographic accounting for only seven per cent of COVID-related deaths. Perhaps even more disturbing, approximately 15.6 per cent –– or about 3,100 –– of Canada’s excess deaths occurred among those younger than 44, even though that youngest cohort accounts for only 0.7 per cent of the country’s COVID-19 deaths.

 

This is where they pull out that canard, "You can't prove it was the vaccines, neener neener neener."

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9 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Why would I get 3 jabs from an experimental product that clearly didn't work for the rest of you?

There's at least one easy guess why: what would it take to admit another expensive failure? Is there's a way for a bureaucracy like this to admit that it was wrong all over or it'll have to wait a couple of generations and then, an apology?

Sure vaccines can be and were useful in some specific cases, I personally have no doubts about it. But as a general universal solution, a blanket panacea? Well the result is already before us, if it cannot be seen and interpreted as another expensive failure, what can?

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34 minutes ago, Goddess said:

This is no longer true and you need to stop lying about it.

Alberta, Dec. 24th - Unvaccinated cases: 1536, Vaccinated cases: 7425  Status Unknown: (whatever that means) 254

New cases are 80% in vaccinated people, another 1% in partially vaxxed.

Saskatchewan, Dec. 23rd - Unvaccinated cases: 78, Vaccinated cases: 113, Partially vaxxed: 3

Manitoba, Dec. 23rd - 556 new cases, 440 of which are in vaccinated people, 32 in partially vaxxed, 84 Unvaccinated

And again, as far as hospitalizations:

In SK, from August1-November 30 - 21308 cases in unvaxxed, with 192 deaths, giving a death rate of 0.9%

                                              2073 cases in partially vaxxed people, with 24 deaths, giving a death rate of 1.1%

                                               7545 cases in fully vaxxed people, with 115 deaths, giving a death rate of 1.5%

No one under the age of 20 died in the 4th wave.

 

 

It's irrelevant if vaxxed people are getting infected and not exhibiting symptoms. The hospitalization data is all that matters, and you should cite it rather than just spew it off the top of your head.

Like this: 

 

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6 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

And again, as far as hospitalizations:

In SK, from August1-November 30 - 21308 cases in unvaxxed, with 192 deaths, giving a death rate of 0.9%

                                              2073 cases in partially vaxxed people, with 24 deaths, giving a death rate of 1.1%

                                               7545 cases in fully vaxxed people, with 115 deaths, giving a death rate of 1.5%

Again, why is the death rate higher (likely these are the hospitalizations, as well) in vaccinated people?

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6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Again, why is the death rate higher (likely these are the hospitalizations, as well) in vaccinated people?

Again, cite your data. According to the most recent info on the Saskatchewan dashboard, I quote:

  • As of December 29th, a total of 83 individuals are hospitalized, including 68 inpatient hospitalizations and 15 ICU hospitalizations. Of the 83 patients, 47 (56.6%) were not fully vaccinated.
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Canadians!

You're all being manipulated and lied to by the politicians and the media. 

Find out who's invested in the jab producers. Why are treatments not available. Do you know that plain old ASA (Asprin) is a good treatment? Have they informed you to take daily doses of Zink and vitamin D? Of course not.

You're being lied to for profit. You are nothing more than an expendable commodity.

Yet you allow Pixie-Dust Trudeau to continue to lead this nation.

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18 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Again, cite your data. According to the most recent info on the Saskatchewan dashboard, I quote:

  • As of December 29th, a total of 83 individuals are hospitalized, including 68 inpatient hospitalizations and 15 ICU hospitalizations. Of the 83 patients, 47 (56.6%) were not fully vaccinated.

It's also worth noting that Saskatchewan has a population of 1.1 million and 855,234 of them are fully vaccinated. So 56.6% of hospitalizations come from less than 25% of the population. 

Still looking for a reputable source to back up your data?

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5 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

back up your data?

Note that "fully", whatever the meaning of the day. Remember "even one shot provides protection" oh wait, it was yesterday's truth!

And I guess in the light of today's truth we will hear that "look you're making XY% of our hospital use so inject this asap or get out asap" more often, now that it's a respected argument repeated by diverse exsperts, shall we not, and why not?

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14 minutes ago, myata said:

Note that "fully", whatever the meaning of the day. Remember "even one shot provides protection" oh wait, it was yesterday's truth!

 

Note that we are dealing with a new and rapidly changing virus. If it changes or if they get improved data, it doesn't mean they were lying to you about it before. 

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

The mandates and passports now are just a joke.

No joke for me, as I can't fly or go to a restaurant.  They are simply stupid and an abuse of power.

We should be able to go after the government and receive compensation for what they've done to us.

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And by the way, has anyone noticed ironic parallels between the anti-abortion and forced vaxx mobs? In the absence of strong evidence that q-vaccines prevent infection and transmission (and it doesn't exist, or why the government would make the same quarantine rules regardless of vaccination status?) the argument is purely and ideologically far fetched: "protect our unborn babies" vs. "protect our hospital spaces". And this is of course why the tune suddenly changes to "only hospitalizations matter" like just forgot (honestly! what?) that smoking and any number of other choices are correlated with hospital use too.

And that demonstrates quite obviously that it's not the rights, freedoms, equality etc that matters for these crowds, but only imposing their dogma on everybody and not but intelligent argument and voluntary agreement but by force. Talk about the irony here, and I expect is to see more of these examples as we go into this untrodden age. We humans, are, after all unbeaten world champions in justification and rationalization of what we believe and want.

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12 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

One possibility? Maybe when they first thought it was a real vaccine however as data poured in from Israel and the UK, governments quickly realized that transmission was still going to happen within vaccinated people. Whether you call it hind sight or a planned action, vaccinating kids was never going to be for the 'greater good'

Clearly you don't follow the UK data very closely.  Even with Delta, the percentage of cases, hospitalizations and deaths really started to flip in relation to vaxxed versus unvaxxed, particularly in the OVER 50 category (which as we know is the most vulnerable). The UK started their vaccinations in spring and by September, 84% of cases, 78% of hospitalizations and 74% of deaths were with the fully vaccinated in that period. All due to Delta and the waning effect of the vaccines. This is why Israel had already adminsterd their 3rd shot and the UK started pushing for it. Even if Omicron didn't come around, we would still see fully vaxxed people leading the cases and possibly the hospitalizations come January. 

I try to keep up, everyone is hard-pressed to do that however with a virus and what we know and understand about it changes directions so quickly.  Here's anotger study a little mioore up to date than the study reported in the Guardian.

 

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“Breakthrough” hospitalizations involving COVID-19 among people who are fully vaccinated against the disease most often affected older adults and people with other chronic health conditions, finds a new analysis of hospital data from June through September by KFF and Epic Research.

More than two-thirds (69%) of breakthrough COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred among people ages 65 and older, who are more likely than younger age groups to have gotten vaccinated. A fifth (21%) of breakthrough hospitalizations occurred among people ages 50-64, while 10% occurred among younger adults.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/breakthrough-covid-19-hospitalizations-among-fully-vaccinated-patients-occur-most-often-among-older-adults-and-involve-people-with-chronic-health-conditions/

Other findings from this study suggest,

that fully vaccinated patients with COVID-19 diagnoses may be somewhat more likely to be in the hospital primarily for reasons other than COVID-19.

 

 

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Not if those who are fully vaccinated have vaccines that waned. Or if they are dealing with Omicron. In both cases the vaccinated are just as good of spreaders as the unvaccinated.

That may well be and easy to say now but omicron wasn't a concern at the time of the study in the Guardian article when vaccine could still be reliable against infection.

 

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Right....coercion is not force? So if I put a gun to your head and say give me your wallet, I can say I didn't force you to give me your wallet...your hand went into your pocket and handed it to me. Its not like I took your wallet from your pocket. 

Same here. You take away people's jobs and other activities and say "oh but its your choice!!!"  I'm surprised your self proclaimed BS meter can't pick up the shit smell on that one.

 

Its the ony way to argue it during a time when health measures during an emergency are equated with the coming of the Red Dawn. No one is strapping people to gurneys and injecting them against their will. Making vaccines mandatory as a condition of work or for admission or travel has been around for years however. The freedom and liberty league coming unglued over restrictions are pretty selective if not a little silly about what it is they think is unjustifiable. I know people who think having to hold public meetings about property development, building permits and septic fields on Zoom is a return to pre Magna Carta times. And what about the millions of us forced to stop at red lights everyday? Its despicable.

 

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Holy F. I also never talked about kids under 5 either. I provided a scientific source that accounts for the one cohort. This was in addition to other topics you had already discussed with WestCanMan and the general knowledge that every vaccine has the chance for side effects. So when the risk of severe disease from Covid is low then it doesn't take a genius to understand even a low risk from vaccine injury would be close to offset that perceived benefit.

Exactly, you just lumped everyone together as kids and then pointed to a study that clearly didn't.

 

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This was in addition to other topics you had already discussed with WestCanMan and the general knowledge that every vaccine has the chance for side effects. So when the risk of severe disease from Covid is low then it doesn't take a genius to understand even a low risk from vaccine injury would be close to offset that perceived benefit.

I get that, however I also get the recommendation to vaccinate everyone they can for the reason I keep coming back to. Got the recommendation at least since everything has changed.  If its any consolation I'm in the camp that feels things are trending towards better times between the evolution of a less dangerous variant coming to dominate, vaccines and hopefully treatments. All a lot sooner than first imagined/hoped for too.

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2 hours ago, Goddess said:

This is where they pull out that canard, "You can't prove it was the vaccines, neener neener neener."

Article indicated these deaths as opioid overdoses. Yet they are likely due to Cvid, indirectly. This is the fallout of our carte-blanche vaccine mandates and school and busieness closures.

It is these people who fall through the cracks. 

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5 hours ago, myata said:

Two logical flaws right here:

1. The fact of protection from spreading the infection has never been proven, only alleged by some calling themselves "experts". We need to do much better than that, to justify forcibly shooting something in someone's body against their will.... How about an open discussion of the issue where arguments and evidence can be presented by every side, not only hand-picked exsperts with unknown professional achievements by unknown criteria, unless it's willingness to broadcast the truth of the day?

 

There's no way on Earth to have a discussion with someone who thinks anyone is looking for a justification to forcibly shoot anything into someone's body against their will.

...logical flaws...🙄

Edited by eyeball
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