The push is on of the Omicron or Omnicon virus.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Shady said:

The vulnerable can protect themselves by getting vaccinated and boosted, wearing masks and avoiding crowds.  There’s no need to risk children.

 

Some people cling to the idea that because they and their children are low risk, they can ride out the infection and don’t need to get vaccinated. They forget that even otherwise young healthy people have gotten severely sick and died. But they also forget that we get vaccinated not just to protect ourselves, but also to protect those around us and the people we love.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/why-its-important-vaccinate-children-against-covid

Edited December 30, 2021 by eyeball

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Goddess said:

This is no longer true and you need to stop lying about it.

Not so fast Goddess...it's more accurate to say I'm speculating based on what information is available and when...

 

Quote

Still waiting for someone to explain how the unvaccinated had the largest number of cases and yet the lowest death rate.

The following might help shed a little light.  This is dated Dec 15th and I suppose it could already be ancient history so best as always to stay tuned for further details.

 

Quote

 

“Breakthrough” hospitalizations involving COVID-19 among people who are fully vaccinated against the disease most often affected older adults and people with other chronic health conditions, finds a new analysis of hospital data from June through September by KFF and Epic Research.

More than two-thirds (69%) of breakthrough COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred among people ages 65 and older, who are more likely than younger age groups to have gotten vaccinated. A fifth (21%) of breakthrough hospitalizations occurred among people ages 50-64, while 10% occurred among younger adults.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/breakthrough-covid-19-hospitalizations-among-fully-vaccinated-patients-occur-most-often-among-older-adults-and-involve-people-with-chronic-health-conditions/

Other findings from this study suggest,

that fully vaccinated patients with COVID-19 diagnoses may be somewhat more likely to be in the hospital primarily for reasons other than COVID-19.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by eyeball

[Shady]

18 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 

Some people cling to the idea that because they and their children are low risk, they can ride out the infection and don’t need to get vaccinated. They forget that even otherwise young healthy people have gotten severely sick and died. But they also forget that we get vaccinated not just to protect ourselves, but also to protect those around us and the people we love.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/why-its-important-vaccinate-children-against-covid

The odds of a healthy child dying from covid is 0.001%, which is statistically zero.  Stop your panic porn.  Statistically the flu is more dangerous to children than covid is.  It’s child abuse to submit children to a vaccine that has a higher risk or severe consequences than the virus you’re trying to protect them from.  I noticed that your cut abs paste job included they and they’re children.  I’m not suggesting that adults not get vaccinated.  Your cut and paste job is based on emotion and feelings, and not logic and reason.

[taxme]

22 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The MSM lies and omits like it's an Olympic event and then they act outraged when people get their news from the internet. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so infuriating. 

What we are seeing today, with this new Omni"con" covid variant, is a mad rush on by our useless bunch of lying  politicians, and that lying fake MSM, to try and get as many people as they can to get their booster jab. Why? Why is that when we have all been told and is well known that this Omnicon covid variant is not at all that dangerous to anyone. It is a very mild virus. 

But thanks to those Marxist politicians and the Marxist media they have hyped this Omnicon virus up so much that they have millions of gullible Canadian people rushing off in a hurry to get their booster jabs. How can we ever get rid of this medical tyranny madness when there are so many of those gullible fools out there who have again been conned and convinced into believing that they will need a booster jab to keep them from pretty much dying. When will these buffoons ever learn? 

Already in Israel the people there are on their second booster jab, and I do believe that this will be coming to Canada also. Expect to be told that around six months from now everybody will need to have another booster jab to be able to go into a restaurant. Sadly, the gullible peasants will go and get their 2nd booster jab. 

The forcing of these experimental vaccines on they the gullible peasants whom have been fully vaccinated already will not be enough for our dear Marxist leaders. They will have to take another vaccine booster jab with the eventual aim of forcing everybody that they will need a booster shot or they will not be bale to participate in society. Their first two shots don't count anymore. The biggest con job in history is happening today and the gullible peasants will still never get it. Those buffoons are the reasons why this scamdemic may go on forever. Shocking indeed. ?

 

[eyeball]

12 minutes ago, Shady said:

Your cut and paste job is based on emotion and feelings, and not logic and reason.

Excuse me but panic porn...child abuse?

You sure have an odd way way of determining what passes for emotion and feelings in others compared to your own.

In the meantime McGill's article from the Office for Science and Society for the purpose of separating sense from nonsense was clearly written for people exactly like you. 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by eyeball

[myata]

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

anyone is looking for a justification to forcibly shoot anything into someone's body against their will

Good that we can agree on this common ground.

[Shady]

19 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Excuse me but panic porn...child abuse?

You sure have an odd way way of determining what passes for emotion and feelings in others compared to your own.

In the meantime McGill's article from the Office for Science and Society for the purpose of separating sense from nonsense was clearly written for people exactly like you. 

 

It’s an opinion piece without any actual science.  For instance, it mentions the risk of myocarditis is extremely low, but fails to mention that the risk from covid is even lower.  Why is that?  It says most children experience no to mild systems from covid but also says many have been worse.  What’s many?  Is there a number or percentage?  And how many of those children had underlying health problems?  Because in those cases, must advocate for vaccination.  Why don’t they acknowledge that the flu has a higher mortality rate for children that covid does?  Because it’s a propaganda piece, in an effort to push broad based vaccination, when it’s not necessary or logical.

[myata]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

But they also forget that we get vaccinated not just to protect ourselves, but also to protect

This is a good source and it merits a serious discussion. It does show significant protection against asymptomatic infection and consequently, transmission. Caveats? Note the timeline of the study - it was before delta and this latest variant, and right at the height of the priority vaccination campaign. Why does it matter? Because a non obvious question remains how long does the protection last? And yes there was another study that showed that it, let's be explicit and clear as much as possible, the protection against asymptomatic infection and transmission does not last long; in just over a month, fully vaccinated can transmit as well as non vaccinated (that result was already with delta, if memory serves me well).

So no, it's not as simple as putting a dollar coined a century back on a desk and expecting to buy a horse with it today. The question is, what is the protection effect, how significant it is in realistic and practical terms, not as a medal on a shining banner. It has to be answered clearly and credibly before policies not even forcing but promoting vaccination in the groups where the risk of complications is low or extremely low are introduced. Sure you can make them available to everybody. You can provide all the data that is available and explain what it means. But you can't stretch it to satisfy your ends and objectives, that would be misleading and of course, could backfire if the results that everybody can see wouldn't agree with the claims. Interestingly we can see it right now, with adds on TV showing happy sunny future (kids 5-11 vaccinated) while on another news cases are breaking all records in provinces with almost total vaccination. What is the right version of the reality here can you tell still?

[Aristides]

5 hours ago, Goddess said:

This is where they pull out that canard, "You can't prove it was the vaccines, neener neener neener."

And you pull out an even bigger canard, everyone who died after being vaccinated was killed by the vaccine.

[OftenWrong]

39 minutes ago, Aristides said:

And you pull out an even bigger canard, everyone who died after being vaccinated was killed by the vaccine.

Not everybody of course. All data is too new, “fresh” to be relied upon as yet.

One point did stand out in the article I posted. Says there was a spike in covid deaths in the first few weeks that the vaccine was released. Sounds suspicious to me.

It’s necessary to put the brakes on and ask some good questions now and then. 

Secondly, do not give fools supreme executive power.

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by OftenWrong

[Goddess]

30 minutes ago, Aristides said:

And you pull out an even bigger canard, everyone who died after being vaccinated was killed by the vaccine.

I never said that every death after vaccination is "from the vaccine."

But the fact is that deaths after vaccination from blood clots, heart attacks and strokes IS happening within days and weeks of vaccination. And heart attacks in young vaccinated people has increased, and the media is desperately trying to convince us that this has been happening all along and we just never noticed before.

As far as the thousands of previously healthy people now living with violent convulsions after the jabs, I do not believe this is "anxiety" as doctors and Big Pharma is trying to pass it off as.

It's odd to me that Big Pharma admits that heart attacks, strokes and blood clotting is a common adverse reaction to the shots, yet denies the increases have anything to do with them.

I understand that you believe the shots are 100% safe and effective and no one - not one person - is experiencing any adverse reactions or deaths from them.  The reality is that they are neither safe, nor effective for the general population and should not be forced on everyone.  They are only safe"r" and "more" effective for those in high risk categories.

[Goddess]

I feel like we have gotten to the point now where being vaccinated has become mostly SYMBOLIC.  It has very little to do with the pandemic.  Human beings are tribal in nature and once you're in the Vaccine Cult and you have the govt on your side, of course, you want to see those who do not comply, suffer.  No matter how ridiculous the restrictions become, the Vaccine Cult will still roll with them.  No one likes to admit they've been lied to.  

But standing up for a vaccine that does not stop infection or transmission, where the viral load is the same in vaxxed and unvaxxed, where fully vaxxed sports teams and holiday cruises are riddled with infections, where a fully vaxxed infected person can eat in a restaurant but an unvaxxed healthy person cannot, is insanity.  But they dont' care, they have their badge of honour and anyone who doesn't, should suffer - not eat, not be able to support their family and be denied medical care.

When was the last time your government pressured or forced you into eating healthy, exercising, drinking water, spending time in nature, staying away from chemicals and taking vitamins and supplements?

Exactly.

But they really care about your health, right?

Right?

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

Again, cite your data. According to the most recent info on the Saskatchewan dashboard, I quote:

• As of December 29th, a total of 83 individuals are hospitalized, including 68 inpatient hospitalizations and 15 ICU hospitalizations. Of the 83 patients, 47 (56.6%) were not fully vaccinated.

Why don't you cite your data?

FYI a tweet from Tim Broadbutt doesn't cut it, and his numbers are obviously bullshit. It seems more like a hyperbolic joke than an attempt at a serious tweet. 

43X as many unvaxxed in ICU? Your Sask dashboard info says that only 15 people in that whole province are on ICU. How weak are the people where Broadbutt lives? 

And there are 83 in hospital in the whole province? Almost everyone either has or had omicron. If there are only 83 in hosp and 15 on ICU it's a cold now. People die from colds and flus all the time. 

It's like when you have that old dog who barely squeaks through the summer. Winter will kill it. On the bright side, puppies are born. We're all replaced. 

[WestCanMan]

17 minutes ago, Goddess said:

the Vaccine Cult 

QFT.

Leftists like to say that conservatives follow Trump blindly, but ever since Operation Warp Speed started promising vaccines, leftists started forming a cult around them and instantly banishing all other forms of covid defence to the qanon bin. 

HCQ?: "OMG we all know in advance that it will kill people. Don't test it. It's just Trump's way of getting rich off of anti-covid medicine! All hail the vaxx! All hail Greta! All hail science! Never question the holy trinity!"

Ivermectin?: "OMG you're taking horse medication. If you wanna take horse meds just stick to the tranqs - they're awesome! All hail the vaxx! All hail Greta! All hail science! Never question the holy trinity!"

Therapeutics?: "WTF do you think that covid is, a sore back? All hail the vaxx! All hail Greta! All hail science! Never question the holy trinity!"

Natural immunity for people who already had covid?: "OMG, don't you remember the anecdote about the guy who got covid and then he got better and then he got it again and he died? Science just said that natural immunity is shit. Are you trying to kill us all? Why don't you just get a nuke, you bastard! All hail the vaxx! All hail Greta! All hail science! Never question the holy trinity!"

(mid-2020) But will the vaccines be safe?: "We already know in advance that the vaccines will be perfectly safe, just like we knew that everything else was going to fail miserably. That's "science" motherfucker, and no one questions science. We also know in advance that they will work, 100%. Only QAnoners will ever dispute the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. They are a gift from God. And by God we mean the Big Pharma, not the Cheetoh demon who makes immigrants drink from the toylit. All hail the vaxx! All hail Greta! All hail science! Never question the holy trinity!"

Why do kids die from heart attacks and strokes within days of taking the vaccines, are they really safe?: "The CDC said that the heart attacks and strokes that children have within days of taking the vaccine are likely unrelated. I did the math. 8.9M kids took the vaxx and only 15 died within a few days. There are 8 times that many children in the USA, and 8 x 15 is only 120. Do 120 children randomly die of heart attacks and stuff every 3 days? That would only be 121 times a year that 120 kids would die. So, do 14,600 kids die of heart attacks and strokes in the US every year? Hells to the yaa man. Kids die from heart attacks all the time. That's why I didn't do lines when I was 8. All hail the vaxx! All hail Greta! All hail science! Never question the holy trinity!"

[myata]

58 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I feel like we have gotten to the point now where being vaccinated has become mostly SYMBOLIC.

It's as old as the (human) world itself: when we couldn't find an easy and quick solution, we begin looking for a scapegoat - who to blame for, that we failed to find it. Just now on a Quebec channel someone's going near berserk on non vaccinated they are this and that and that too. But take all the emotional charge, leave only facts, logic and reason, isn't that what we were supposed to do anyways, and what's left? The question, why is not important anymore in this context, the only one that matters is "who". And unfortunately, politicians and administrative officials see a way to use it to their advantage, distracting and diverting attention from the real questions about intelligence, effectiveness of the strategy and state of the system.

Between a mob looking who to blame and a conductor of the frustration, fear and anger there's always a collusion. Each plays their role, and part. And after it played out so many times, over and again it's hard to be surprised.

[BubberMiley]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Why don't you cite your data?

 

I did. I said the Saskatchewan dashboard. Here's the link. I didn't include it because I already had the quote from the cite copied and I can only paste one thing at a time.

https://dashboard.saskatchewan.ca/health-wellness

To find the quote, click "Learn More" under Hospitalizations.

I can always back up my claims with reputable sources. 

[Nationalist]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Excuse me but panic porn...child abuse?

You sure have an odd way way of determining what passes for emotion and feelings in others compared to your own.

In the meantime McGill's article from the Office for Science and Society for the purpose of separating sense from nonsense was clearly written for people exactly like you. 

 

Errr...no. it was actually written for people exactly like you. To justify your need for social upheaval...your addiction to fear.

I find your kind all too typical. Condescending...yet bereft of real fact.

Ah...the power of media.

[Accountability Now]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Here's anotger study a little mioore up to date than the study reported in the Guardian.

So the two points I'm getting from your study (and please feel free to correct or add more):

1.  A good percentage of breaktrough hospitalizations cases occur in elderly and those with pre-existing conditions - is this exactly who the vaccine is supposed to be protecting????? 

2. Some people with Covid hospitalizations may actually be there for other non-Covid related reasons - i posted in this thread last night a link showing that Ontario is going to start breaking out these numbers to show who is actually in the hospital because of Covid. The UK has been doing this for a while now and it is shown that 20-30% of the hospitalizations were people in the hospital but happen to have Covid too. With Omicron that number could be substantially higher as a lot of people are presenting asymptomatic or very mild cases. 

 

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Its the ony way to argue it during a time when health measures during an emergency are equated with the coming of the Red Dawn. No one is strapping people to gurneys and injecting them against their will. Making vaccines mandatory as a condition of work or for admission or travel has been around for years however. The freedom and liberty league coming unglued over restrictions are pretty selective if not a little silly about what it is they think is unjustifiable. I know people who think having to hold public meetings about property development, building permits and septic fields on Zoom is a return to pre Magna Carta times. And what about the millions of us forced to stop at red lights everyday? Its despicable.

I am fine with the restrictions I have had to put up with. If I really want to go out to a restaurant or a game then I'll get a rapid test. Luckily my employment has not been affected by this however I know a few people that have lost their jobs. What is despicable is people thinking its ok take away people's jobs (ie their way to provide for their families) and then compare it to having to stop at red lights. I clearly remember you whining numerous times about how Ottawa handles the fisheries where you live. Yet you have no problem with governments cramming health choices down our throats. 

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

Exactly, you just lumped everyone together as kids and then pointed to a study that clearly didn't.

I get it. You clearly find yourself on the losing end of this debate which makes you hold on tight to the one semantical argument you think you have. However, until a month ago kids under 12 weren't even allowed to get the shot. At this point only 14% of American kids in that age demographic have had their second shot (which is where we see the majority of myocarditis occur). It will take months of continued vaccination in this age demographic for a study to be able to show results. The study I showed took the age demographic 12-17  and found highest incidents of adverse effects in 12-15 males.  They also found high enough adverse effects in the 16-17 range among males with no preexisting conditions that made the vaccine riskier than not taking it.  This study did take into account ALL kids that were at that time allowed to take the vaccine. 

Quote

For boys 12-15 without medical comorbidities receiving their second mRNA vaccination dose, the rate of CAE is 3.7 to 6.1 times higher than their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk as of August 21, 2021 (7-day hospitalizations 1.5/100k population) and 2.6-4.3-fold higher at times of high weekly hospitalization risk (7-day hospitalizations 2.1/100k), such as during January 2021. For boys 16-17 without medical comorbidities, the rate of CAE is currently 2.1 to 3.5 times higher than their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk, and 1.5 to 2.5 times higher at times of high weekly COVID-19 hospitalization.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

 

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

 however I also get the recommendation to vaccinate everyone they can for the reason I keep coming back to. Got the recommendation at least since everything has changed. 

The reason you keep coming back to is to stop transmission. I would have been first in line to get the vaccine if it actually stopped or significantly reduced transmission but it doesn't. And this isn't just based on Omicron but on Delta which was hitting Israel and the UK before vaccines were available in my age group. It was clear from the data that ensued that breakthrough cases kept rising as the vaccines waned meaning the idea of transmission was short lived and therefore the vaccine was not going to stop anything but only delay the inevitable. 

I too hold hope for Omicron. Hope that hospitalizations stay low and people can finally calm the F down and stop being so scared of living. 

[Accountability Now]

2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

To find the quote, click "Learn More" under Hospitalizations.

I'm not sure if you saw Ontario's hospitalization numbers today but there were 605 total with 399 being fully vaccinated. That makes for 66% fully vaxxed and 30% unvaxxed. For these numbers to have any meaning to the lay person, you would need to see an 80/20 split to represent the vaccination percentages. However, like I have said for months now, the change in these rates have been trending this way for a while now. First it was the case numbers, which are completely skewed towards the vaxxed at this point, and now its the hospitalizations leaning towards to the vaxxed. Soon it will be heavily skewed as well. Only the ICU numbers still show the unvaxxed as being the issue however I'm guessing that will change soon too. At that point the mandates need to end immediately. 

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

The reason you keep coming back to is to stop transmission. I would have been first in line to get the vaccine if it actually stopped or significantly reduced transmission but it doesn't.

It did at the time of the Guardian story we're arguing over.  Things are changing fast. I got the impression you were arguing against vaccine then because you kept coming back to the Guatrdian story.

As for vaccine now it still sounds like the vast majority of people who suffer the worst effects are unvaccinated so...

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Errr...no. it was actually written for people exactly like you. To justify your need for social upheaval...your addiction to fear.

I find your kind all too typical. Condescending...yet bereft of real fact.

Oh no...not the old we're rubber and you're glue riposte, now what?

Quote

Ah...the power of media.

You haven't seen anything yet. Just wait until we have you in a gulag and this post is used as evidence in your trial.

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by eyeball

[Nationalist]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Oh no...not the old we're rubber and you're glue riposte, now what?

You haven't seen anything yet. Just wait until we have you in a gulag and this post is used as evidence in your trial.

 

Rubber/glue? Huh...like I said, bereft of fact. Just attacks and impedant threats.

Thanks for exemplifying my point so well.

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

I did. I said the Saskatchewan dashboard. Here's the link. I didn't include it because I already had the quote from the cite copied and I can only paste one thing at a time.

https://dashboard.saskatchewan.ca/health-wellness

To find the quote, click "Learn More" under Hospitalizations.

I can always back up my claims with reputable sources. 

Right, but you posted a tweet 1 post earlier which was full of what looked like 'stats' but with no sources.

Can you find us the source that shows 43x as many unvaccinated people are in ICU somewhere, as was mentioned in the tweet that you cited? 

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

It's irrelevant if vaxxed people are getting infected and not exhibiting symptoms. The hospitalization data is all that matters, and you should cite it rather than just spew it off the top of your head.

Like this: 

 

He says that his info is on the "MB Health online dashboard". Shouldn't be hard to dig that up.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Rubber/glue? Huh...like I said, bereft of fact.

Rubber/glue? Uh huh....it's a fact, just like I said.

Quote

 

Just attacks and impedant threats.

Thanks for exemplifying my point so well.

 

You're welcome.