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The leadership of the CPC is under attack from a group of unrepentant reformers who would rather see the party become an ideological rump like the NDP than actually replace the Grits as government. The reform wing of the party seems determined to avoid forming a government at all costs. If Mr. O'Toole had campaigned in the election the way Senator Batters wanted, Mr. Singh would be the Leader of the official Opposition and Prime Minister Trudeau would have a great majority.

The purpose of a political party is to win elections, not force some stupid ideology on unwilling citizens. Senator Batters and her group believe a political party can convince voters to change their views. That is not how elections work. Before an election is called, the intelligent party listens to what voters want and then campaign to provide the voters what they want, not what some silly "base" thinks the voters need.  The key is to formulate election platforms into policies that are viable and satisfy the voters desires. The Party leader needs to be someone who has the confidence of the voters. "This is what you want, this is what I can provide." 

 

Edited by Queenmandy85
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Not a big fan of throwing out one's beliefs to just woo voters, but in the case of Canada lets be frank.  Canada is a socialist country.  Canadians love numerous restrictions on their economic and other freedoms.  Thank God the left is split between the Liberals, NDP, Bloc and Green Party.  The CPC is slightly left of center but it has to be to attract voters.

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16 minutes ago, Faramir said:

Not a big fan of throwing out one's beliefs to just woo voters, but in the case of Canada lets be frank.

Whose beliefs is the government supposed to be guided by? The government members or the voters? If this is a democracy, the government must be guided by the beliefs of the voters.

If Mr. O'Toole can get past this little disruption, when the next election comes around, this will be old news and the Grits won't be able to use clips from the leadership race against him. 

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37 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Whose beliefs is the government supposed to be guided by? The government members or the voters? If this is a democracy, the government must be guided by the beliefs of the voters.

If Mr. O'Toole can get past this little disruption, when the next election comes around, this will be old news and the Grits won't be able to use clips from the leadership race against him. 

Well what if say the beliefs of the population become anti-Semitic?  Should the government start handing out stars?  We are also not a pure democracy.  Democracy = chaos.  We are a Constitutional Monarchy, or a Parliamentary system of strong federal responsible government.  We obviously don't get to vote on every decision like in California and thus we avoid chaos.  We put responsible people in power to do what makes sense and is responsible.  Pure government forms like they have in Israel and Denmark create unstable government.

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6 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The leadership of the CPC is under attack from a group of unrepentant reformers who would rather see the party become an ideological rump like the NDP than actually replace the Grits as government. The reform wing of the party seems determined to avoid forming a government at all costs. If Mr. O'Toole had campaigned in the election the way Senator Batters wanted, Mr. Singh would be the Leader of the official Opposition and Prime Minister Trudeau would have a great majority.

The purpose of a political party is to win elections, not force some stupid ideology on unwilling citizens. Senator Batters and her group believe a political party can convince voters to change their views. That is not how elections work. Before an election is called, the intelligent party listens to what voters want and then campaign to provide the voters what they want, not what some silly "base" thinks the voters need.  The key is to formulate election platforms into policies that are viable and satisfy the voters desires. The Party leader needs to be someone who has the confidence of the voters. "This is what you want, this is what I can provide." 

 

Yes, the conservative party is under attack not only by the other parties, but from within as well, and while some will describe them as unrepentant reformers, when the real enemy was change and lots of it, in a quick time, Mr O Toole went from being a red grit in the past was elected as party leader as a blue grit, and many conservatives voters where conned into believing that he would run on a blue platform. Then out of the blue their is a total 180 turn, snapping a lot of necks in the process. I won't lie i refrained from voting because of just that if i wanted a red platform i would of joined Justin in a gay pride parade and danced my ass off.

But since i can not dance and really don't have much of an ass. i stayed in my lane. Mr O Toole tried something new thinking it was a winning one, drawing support from the center, even i thought it might work... and it really did not fail by a huge margin but it did fail what red support was gained was negated by the drop in blue support who went to mad max...DO i think we need a leadership review, Damn Skippy we do, it needs to bring everyone back on the same page...the blue page...what ever the results or outcome we need to rally behind whom ever is made leader. Not that there is much out there to pick from. And we need to stop handing Justin elections...

As for winning elections and forcing stupid ideology on unwilling citizens I'm pretty sure Justin has already done that, infact Justin has done everything he could to ruin his election chances and time after time his election campaign staff have pulled off a miracle, of course with a lot of help from conservatives...

Canadians have still not figured out that this is politics and those greasy bastards will tell you what ever they want , like you said the main idea of the game is to get reelected, the only time "what the people" want is taken into consideration is for the election platform once elected it is back to business, or should i say personal agendas... 

 

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All the votes are in the centre. Name me a Conservative Prime Minister, besides Mr. Harper, who was not a Red Tory. Mr. Harper lead the party with an iron fist to suppress the blue conservatives because he knew they would cost him votes.

Voters are far more concerned about having a Prime Minister who will listen to them and who will deliver what (s)he can, and be clear on the reasons some things cannot be done. Prime Minister Trudeau has a delivery challenge.

Women make up the majority of voters, but a significant number feel alienated by the social "conservative" wing of the CPC and the same goes for the over 2 million gays who are eligible to vote. Winning back a larger portion of that pool will take time. Women used to be the backbone of the Progressive Conservative Party.

Unfortunately, Mr. O'Toole is a victim of my old classmate, Walter Stewart's thesis, "Every hair on a party leader's head is worth 10,000 votes." But if that were true, even Justin's nice hair would be no match for Jagmeet's.

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20 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

All the votes are in the centre. Name me a Conservative Prime Minister, besides Mr. Harper, who was not a Red Tory. Mr. Harper lead the party with an iron fist to suppress the blue conservatives because he knew they would cost him votes.

Voters are far more concerned about having a Prime Minister who will listen to them and who will deliver what (s)he can, and be clear on the reasons some things cannot be done. Prime Minister Trudeau has a delivery challenge.

Women make up the majority of voters, but a significant number feel alienated by the social "conservative" wing of the CPC and the same goes for the over 2 million gays who are eligible to vote. Winning back a larger portion of that pool will take time. Women used to be the backbone of the Progressive Conservative Party.

Unfortunately, Mr. O'Toole is a victim of my old classmate, Walter Stewart's thesis, "Every hair on a party leader's head is worth 10,000 votes." But if that were true, even Justin's nice hair would be no match for Jagmeet's.

1. I don't disagree with that, but my point was  Mr O Toole had presented his self as a blue tory to the tory convention, which won him the leader of the conservatives, then a very short time later he announces his election platform and it is on the left of center platform ...Thats why the conservatives are in a uproar... they feel betrayed, and a lot of groups that had conservative backing were left in the cold, like the gun lobby etc... 

2. Every Politician ever named has pretended to listen to voters needs, and once elected either found those promises not based in reality, or the just conveniently forgot about them. And every election Canadians gather around in groups listening carefully, in hopes one politician is going to hear them. only to be disappointed after the election when promises are no more than a pipe dreams, for the most part. which might just account for our mistrust in politicians , of course I am only guessing. 

3. Women, I'm confused by your comment, because Justin has pretty much done everything he can to lie his ass of to them, and yet as you said they still vote for the guy...either they are very gullible, or they are secretively see Justin as their ideal man...

The LGBTQ group is another group who's lobby is far to powerful and far to the left and still not happy with the recognition they receive or power they wield . like i said if you don't dance in their parade you are not getting their support. for them you either love them or hate them their is no middle ground. the gay community and religion do not mix very well.

4. The liberals have done an excellent job of divide and conquer, this nation is so divided getting even the simplest things done is next to impossible. There is always going to be one group that disagrees and projects die until they are forgotten. what is needed is someone that can do things that will benefit everyone and drive or force them through. but they are to worry about getting elected  

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On 11/17/2021 at 2:38 PM, Boges said:

O'Toole was trying to be pragmatic. 

Stephen Harper was pragmatic. This is the only way a Conservative can win nationally in Canada. 

yeah by going full cuck

what's the point of a conservative party if the only way to win is to campaign and govern just like the liberals?

fake opposition winning is not a victory

it's just more of the Liberals in a different gang color

Edited by Yzermandius19
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On 11/17/2021 at 4:03 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

Women make up the majority of voters, but a significant number feel alienated by the social "conservative" wing of the CPC and the same goes for the over 2 million gays who are eligible to vote. Winning back a larger portion of that pool will take time. Women used to be the backbone of the Progressive Conservative Party.

I doubt the majority of women are alienated by social conservatives.  You have been sold a bill of goods by Trudeau and the left.  I think most women are normal people and not into women's lib stuff.  I also doubt two million gays even follow politics that closely.  Most probably don't feel threatened by the Conservative party.  It is Trudeau and the Liberals (and NDP) who create division and use scare tactics to try to get votes.  The Conservative Party is not going to make LGBTQ illegal.  They might not pass a law banning voluntary conversion therapy (if it is just counseling) as the Liberals and NDP are planning to do, but I don't see them trying to outlaw LGBTQ lifestyles even though many of them (including me) do not agree with LGBTQ practices or same-sex marriage.  This is not some African dictatorship or Communist Russia.  Conservatives are not interested in discriminating against people in employment and not interested in persecuting gays in society.  But people's freedom of religion must be respected.  That means you can't force someone to perform a same-sex marriage or force a baker to bake a cake for a same-sex couple.  A Conservative government with enough social conservatives in it might outlaw abortions though, but I'm not convinced the majority of women are pro choice.  They could be pro life.  What we need are more godly leaders who believe in our historic Judeo-Christian society and less cancel culture or progressive Marxists.

Edited by blackbird
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5 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

yeah by going full cuck

what's the point of a conservative party if the only way to win is to campaign and govern just like the liberals?

fake opposition winning is not a victory

it's just more of the Liberals in a different gang color

What is the point of a "conservative" party that will intentionally lose elections. You want a "conservative" party that will be no different than the NDP; stuck in the wilderness of ideological purity.

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20 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

What is the point of a "conservative" party that will intentionally lose elections. You want a "conservative" party that will be no different than the NDP; stuck in the wilderness of ideological purity.

to provide an alternative

if every party is the same

it's a one party state with fake opposition

this is what you are advocating for

the NDP are just orange liberals, they don't provide an alternative either

winning elections in a overton window so narrow that governance is nearly identical regardless of who wins is worthless

especially when that narrow overton window only allows woke commie parties to win

who wins the federal election is totally irrelevant because of this state of affairs

Edited by Yzermandius19
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Blackbird, you may believe a "conservative" government is pro choice and not a threat to the LBGTQ community but that is not the perception held by many women and members of the LGBTQ community. Before I retired, I was the Department's liaison with the Pride community so I had a first hand experience with their concerns. We had a local "conservative" MP who was publicly homophobic. Granted, he was kicked out of caucus, but the brand stuck. They saw Scott Brison driven out of the "conservative" party for his orientation.

You under-estimate women's determination to have reproductive choice and equality and as long as the party coddles the social "conservatives", a leadership candidate will have to do what O'Toole did.

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if you think the Soviet Union would have been so much better to live in

if there was just a blue communist party that occasionally beat the red communist party in elections

then you're delusional

obvious fake opposition is obvious

 

welcome to Soviet Canada

where the only parties that ever get elected are woke communist parties

and all you get to choose is the gang color you prefer

if you vote the bloods out and elect the crips, you changed nothing, stop lying to yourselves

obvious pointless election is pointless

Edited by Yzermandius19
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Elections don't matter to far Right-wing ideologues. Because we do live in a democracy where the minority opinion needs to build broad support. 

Even if the CPC or the Liberals only get 35% they have to do so by winning a broad national support. Who cares if the CPC or CPP are popular in Alberta or Saskatchewan. If that party can't win in communities that actually lots of people in it, they'll always be in the political wilderness. 

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10 minutes ago, Boges said:

Elections don't matter to far Right-wing ideologues. Because we do live in a democracy where the minority opinion needs to build broad support. 

Even if the CPC or the Liberals only get 35% they have to do so by winning a broad national support. Who cares if the CPC or CPP are popular in Alberta or Saskatchewan. If that party can't win in communities that actually lots of people in it, they'll always be in the political wilderness. 

all the electable parties in Canada are firmly on the left

if you're on the right, elections don't matter, you're never going to win

if you're on left, no matter who wins, they will govern the same as any other party

the Canadian electorate is that lame

Canadian elections don't matter, no matter where you are on the political spectrum

 

all roads lead to the Liberal Party of Canada dogma

Canadians refuse to vote it out, they don't want any real alternatives, just fake alternatives

anyone who thinks otherwise is just lying to themselves

wishful thinking is a helluva drug

Edited by Yzermandius19
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50 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Canadian elections don't matter, no matter where you are on the political spectrum

They don't matter to YOU! 

Because unless the PPC or some equivalent get broad support you think Canada is some Communist state. 

Must suck living your life thinking that way. 

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The choice is who is most competent to govern, regardless of party affiliation. We elect centrist parties because that is where the voters believe the best policies lie. Saskatchewan elected Roy Romano and BC elected Glenn Clark. Same party but opposite ends of the competence spectrum.

Spewing all this garbage about communists and fascists is an insult to the victims of real communists and fascists. You have no clue what a communist government is like.

Edited by Queenmandy85
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6 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Spewing all this garbage about communists and fascists is an insult to the victims of real communists and fascists. You have no clue what a communist government is like.

And the irony is that the people who spew that stuff don't seem to want democracy anyway - they want Canada to elect a government that will push a fringe view that isn't supported by 95% of voters.

Pragmatic Conservative governments have been the most enduring and most popular governments elected.  I believe Mulroney won over 50% of the vote.   They are better because they HAVE to be.  They are competing against a party that sits in the centre and wins election largely by advertising campaigns and image.  

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10 minutes ago, dialamah said:

That's how a democracy works, eh?  People vote for who/what they want, and whoever gets the most votes win.  

 

Great point, but it is who ever gets the most seats wins. 
I know, I am picky but Mr O’Toole’s party got the most votes. ?

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