Returning to normal

[Aristides]

36 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I think this is part of why so many in medical are rebelling now.  If you've worked in medical (I have) and understand how these things work (or don't work) you understand why masking is having such a negligible effect on spread.

That why you can't get into any medical facility without a mask?

[Infidel Dog]

58 minutes ago, Goddess said:

CTV says the reason so many vaxxed people are in the ICU is because there's more people who are vaxxed than unvaxxed.

Oh.

I see. ?

I'm going to pat myself on the back with that one.

I predicted it.

I told you all back when Citizen and Argus were strutting around with online graphing tools showing the first couple of weeks of the Delta variant showed something like 95% unvaccinated that would change and the idea of a "Pandemic of vaccinated" was crap. I said the same thing when the same thing happened at the beginning of the variant wave in Alberta.

There are multiple guesses as to why this has been happening recently since the conflicting results came out in Israel and elsewhere but rational guessing will tell you it will continue. Pay no attention to what they tell you in the first few weeks of a variant wave. The results will change so radically soon that they won't be able to cover it up.

[Infidel Dog]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

That why you can't get into any medical facility without a mask?

Not just medical facilities. And it's because fascists without evidence it's anything but a visual genuflect of willingness to comply enforce it. 

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

There are multiple guesses as to why this has been happening recently since the conflicting results came out in Israel and elsewhere but rational guessing will tell you it will continue. Pay no attention to what they tell you in the first few weeks of a variant wave. The results will change so radically soon that they won't be able to cover it up.

In the UK, cases go up but because of high vaccination rate the ICU numbers stay relatively low. But you'd say it's evidence that Delta is no big deal. Yet parts of the US and Canada are still tackling with historically high Hospitalizations. Alberta and Saskatchewan being the prime example. 

Places in Canada and the US that have relatively high vaccination rates and have maintained public safety measures are relatively low. 

Yet still in Ontario today. Only 300 cases reported. 2/3 unvaccinated. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-304-new-covid-19-cases-four-additional-deaths-1.5630605

[Aristides]

2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Not just medical facilities. And it's because fascists without evidence it's anything but a visual genuflect of willingness to comply enforce it. 

So all the doctors, nurses, technicians and other staff working there are fascists. Do you have any idea how looney that sounds?

[Faramir]

On 10/19/2021 at 4:01 AM, myata said:

In a different thread it was shown with facts that in the normal world, with competent management of a modern public health care system as of today, the risks of severe Covid outcomes for general population, other than elderly and vulnerable groups, are lower than those of traffic accidents and the flu. And these facts bring out unavoidable (in the normal world) conclusion: blank and indiscriminate restrictions on the the general population cannot continue as there's no longer any factual justification for them. The reasonable approach for a (normal) public health authority in this environment is to focus on effective protection of the vulnerable population and effective monitoring of the situation with effective and honest communications to the public while removing general restrictions that are no longer justified and necessary.

And this is not just me saying it. Not only dry numbers and facts. This is happening right now: in the normal world.

Transiting through Vienna, stepping out of the train (where you can observe almost perfect compliance with the current - FFP mask policy) you enter a world as seen before March 2020. No masks anywhere in sight. Full restaurants, some with long lines (Friday night, Octoberfest). Night partying, open. Dancing, sure. Folks walking, dancing night long along ever-running Danube. There's no information, knowledge of Covid unless you brought it with you.

Austria facts: population 8.9 million; vaccination level 64.3% recent Covid cases 1600; fatalities 10

Did you notice the difference? Authorities work to make normal life possible, as much as possible. We see the results, and comply with necessary requirements. Not because of heartfelt appeals and running tears. Not so much for pumping propaganda. But because we can enjoy normal life, that's why we comply entirely voluntary (I saw no sign of enforcement).

Results -> trust -> voluntary compliance vs.

Crying and jumping and waving hands -> obtuse, contradictory and meaningless policy -> propaganda and scare -> confused population -> no possibility of returning to normal life.

Obviously, these are different approaches and paths. Which one did you choose?

Scandinavian airlines dropping mask mandates on regional flights. Or keep marching to the tune of the latest Case Number and Holy Vaccination Percent drum. You choose.

The world is returning to normal. The normal world.

COVID 19 turned out to not be the great scare we were told it was 2 years ago.  1% of the population did NOT succumb and die from it.  Hospitals were not overwhelmed.  In general around the world less than one 10th of 1 percent have died from it.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Faramir said:

 Hospitals were not overwhelmed.  

That's bullshit.

Go take a look at the current state of Hospitals in Alberta and Saskatchewan. 

[Faramir]

2 hours ago, myata said:

Please don't l-word especially when it's so obvious. The all time highs of waves two and three were achieved with masking and all other masterpiece idiocy policies like put it on in the washroom, turn around and clap to scare the virus, firmly in place. And it took shutting everything down, yet again, just in time for the crest of the wave though so it still not known if it did much other than lots of tears on the screens and hands in the air. While there are places that never had to shut it down.

These are facts and they show clearly and unavoidably that despite amounts of self-appointed salaries and benefits these folks are clueless and incompetent about how to achieve results in reality. These are "travel from Wuhan" specialists, four out of five sources of transmission unknown or meaningless one can continue exzperts and no matter the amounts of confidence on TV the results show all there's to know.

Morning. 8 cases reported in a million city. An elderly woman alone, on a sidewalk in a mask. A token of idiotic, pointless and harmful propaganda. I'm really worried what state the country will emerge from the pandemic in, if it ever happens. Maybe it's time to consider options.

The biggest villain in all this is a media, here and especially in the USA, that thrive on the fear porn around COVID 19.  The masks mandate doesn't bother me really, but the sky is falling from the media does.  They seem to get off on it.

[Faramir]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

That's bullshit.

Go take a look at the current state of Hospitals in Alberta and Saskatchewan. 

Sure NOW after 2 years.  But generally across Canada and the USA hospitals did not face serious shortages of beds.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Faramir said:

The biggest villain in all this is a media, here and especially in the USA, that thrive on the fear porn around COVID 19.  The masks mandate doesn't bother me really, but the sky is falling from the media does.  They seem to get off on it.

Watching the news is not a mandatory activity. 

[Boges]

Just now, Faramir said:

Sure NOW after 2 years.  But generally across Canada and the USA hospitals did not face serious shortages of beds.

Generally? 

Things happen in waves. Over the last two summer Southern US states certainly faced dire hospitalization situations. This Spring, Ontario ICUs were overflowing. 

Remember the situation in New York and Italy in the early days of the pandemic? Dead people packed in Freezer Trucks? 

[Faramir]

Just now, Boges said:

Watching the news is not a mandatory activity. 

It's not about me.  It's about the fear the media spreads across the population.  I mean who actually WATCHES news anymore?  I sure do not.  I check the iphone to see what the latest stories are, and I barely even do that on a daily basis.  One day news stations and papers will fold up shop and the world will be so much better for it. 

[Faramir]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

Generally? 

Things happen in waves. Over the last two summer Southern US states certainly faced dire hospitalization situations. This Spring, Ontario ICUs were overflowing. 

Remember the situation in New York and Italy in the early days of the pandemic? Dead people packed in Freezer Trucks? 

Are the freezer truck stories even true?

[Boges]

Just now, Faramir said:

Are the freezer truck stories even true?

Do you have evidence they aren't? 

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/refrigerated-trucks-arrive-in-l-a-as-bodies-pile-up-at-hospital-morgues-amid-rising-covid-19-death-toll/

[Infidel Dog]

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

IYet still in Ontario today. Only 300 cases reported. 2/3 unvaccinated. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-304-new-covid-19-cases-four-additional-deaths-1.5630605

No. It's unvaccinated and partially vaccinated and if you look deeper you'll discover there's a demographic they ignored - those they have no record for.

So the last one I saw when all those were accounted for was 57% unvaccinated. That's a far cry from the 95% some were puffing themselves up about in the first few weeks, bloviating about a "Pandemic of the Unvaccinated."

Keep watching. Those ratios will continue to change. Did you know there are wards of elderly in homes of patients that were sent home and not kept for observation like so many of the registered unvaccinated were. There is also a large log of patients registered unvaccinated that got the infected badge after hospital registration? Infection is possible in the hospital.

[Boges]

Just now, Infidel Dog said:

No. It's unvaccinated and partially vaccinated and if you look deeper you'll discover there's a demographic they ignored - those they have no record for.

So the last one I saw when all those were accounted for was 57% unvaccinated. That's a far cry from the 95% some were puffing themselves up about in the first few weeks, bloviating about a "Pandemic of the Unvaccinated."

Keep watching. Those ratios will continue to change. Did you know there are wards of elderly in homes of patients that were sent home and not kept for observation like so many of the registered unvaccinated were. There is also a large log of patients registered unvaccinated that got the infected badge after hospital registration? Infection is possible in the hospital.

They will. Can you math? Only 27% of the population is unvaccinated. The total number is also dropping. So it's not like scores of vaccinated people are getting ill. 

And there are vaccinated people who don't respond to the vaccine because of co-morbidities. See Colin Powell this week with a Cancer that effected his immune system. 

[Infidel Dog]

7 minutes ago, Boges said:

That's bullshit.

Go take a look at the current state of Hospitals in Alberta and Saskatchewan. 

Actually if you do that that's going to turn out to be the "bullshit" you speak of when you look at it in the rear-view mirror.

I know that because that's what always seems to happen. These hysterical cries of catastrophe can never be shown after the hysteria dies down.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

CTV says the reason so many vaxxed people are in the ICU is because there's more people who are vaxxed than unvaxxed.

Oh.

I see. ?

Let's try some math.  In BC, there are 5.07 million people of which 80%, more or less, are vaccinated, leaving 20% unvaccinated which is 4.05 million and 1.01 million respectively.

If we assume, for the sake of argument, that .01% of each group ends up hospitalized, that's ~400 vaxed and ~100 unvaxed hospitalized.  

See how that works?  

 

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Infidel Dog said:

Actually if you do that that's going to turn out to be the "bullshit" you speak of when you look at it in the rear-view mirror.

I know that because that's what always seems to happen. These hysterical cries of catastrophe can never be shown after the hysteria dies down.

This is the built in excuse? The wave dies down, therefore the crisis situation was never that bad? 

It's like when ICU capacity opens up because COVID-19 patients finally die. SEE! was that so bad? 

[myata]

Let's take a simple example. You have nails and a hammer. Your job is to put a nail in with minimal number of blows. You try once and it takes say, 9 blows. Not good enough, you update your policies introduce mask mandates and creative dining rules, try again: 13 blows. Sure there's room for improvement you try yet again, and get 16.

A simple question: did your policies work? Have they improved the outcome or not? Is it not a simple, yes or no answer, regardless of the volumes of hot bs going through media channels?

[Faramir]

6 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Actually if you do that that's going to turn out to be the "bullshit" you speak of when you look at it in the rear-view mirror.

I know that because that's what always seems to happen. These hysterical cries of catastrophe can never be shown after the hysteria dies down.

That's really my point.  Yes there are some examples but COVID never was as bad as the mass hysteria around it.  I remember Costco being emptied of toilet paper, on the fear that others will stock up on toilet paper.  There was never any supply disruption.  There is NOW but due to factors like trying to tease people back to the work force who rather stay on benefits.

[Infidel Dog]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

They will. Can you math? Only 27% of the population is unvaccinated. The total number is also dropping. So it's not like scores of vaccinated people are getting ill. 

And there are vaccinated people who don't respond to the vaccine because of co-morbidities. See Colin Powell this week with a Cancer that effected his immune system. 

The ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated hasn't changed much since you and the Ontario-yos were blustering about what they said was "95%" unvaccinated and a "Pandemic of the Unvaccinated." Yet the stat changed. The change would most likely continue if the wave continued but these variant waves diminish over time. I see that's happening in Ontario. But not to worry they say there's some sort of Delta 2 on the way.

And yeah, Colin Powell - there's another example of a variant stat you don't see in the first couple weeks of a variant wave. I'm surprised you brought that up, but thanks.

[Infidel Dog]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

This is the built in excuse? The wave dies down, therefore the crisis situation was never that bad?  

No. The "excuse" is the overcrowding never really shows itself to be the crisis they predicted. Overcrowding happens from time to time even without covid and ways of dealing with it are in place. All those places you're currently pulling your hair out about will do just fine.

[DogOnPorch]

Dog & cat food plus cat litter quickly running out where I live.

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by DogOnPorch

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

No. The "excuse" is the overcrowding never really shows itself to be the crisis they predicted.

That reminds me of the 18,000 new cases prediction, with an error of approximately 100%. A professional of old would take it as a unforgivable failure and resign but who resigns these entitlements these days, whatever the result.