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Vaccines help to reduce severe outcomes and mortality. For the general population they have been reduced to that of traffic accidents and flu. And now you have to go back to your jobs. Forget the role and posture, and claims and pretenses of universal guru and saviors. This is not the job, and it never was.

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Just now, OftenWrong said:

Please send your complaint to the CDC. Tell them what was explained here.

And do let me know when you find a vetted, verifiable link.

CDC says explicitly that VAERS is not verified data.  

Quote

 

Specifically, a report to VAERS does not mean that a vaccine caused an adverse event. But VAERS can give CDC and FDA important information. If it looks as though a vaccine might be causing a problem, FDA and CDC will investigate further and take action if needed.

Anyone can submit a report to VAERS — healthcare professionals, vaccine manufacturers, and the general public. VAERS welcomes all reports, regardless of seriousness, and regardless of how likely the vaccine may have been to have caused the adverse event.

 

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2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Its true I don't read everything you post, but the only 'source' I've seen from you is your personal 'experience' and some claim that a 'medical professional' you know has told you stuff.   I haven't seen any links from you in weeks.   

How can you possibly find anything that supports your point of view on these "so-called reputable sources"?  If they're reputable enough that you find your POV supported, then they're reputable enough to take seriously when they post something you don't agree with.

You haven't posted any links that I've seen for weeks - refuse to, as a matter of fact.  But then, I don't read every post you make, despite your egotistical certainty that I do.

  :)  Remarks like this lets me know that I'm making points that you have no effective way of countering.

But anyway, if I missed these reputable links of yours, I apologize for including you in the bunch that cites unreliable, fringe sources.

It seems you do not read what others say, just stomp about making baseless accusations. You call people out for the quality of their cites, yet you do not read them. 

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8 minutes ago, dialamah said:

CDC says explicitly that VAERS is not verified data.  

That is beside the point. You cant move the goal posts on me. Most of covid data is not verified, so pick your poison.

Its also why you are so boring. You dont really understand things. Just whatever google feeds you that confirms your bias.

You are so biased.

 

Edited by OftenWrong
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11 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

It seems you do not read what others say, just stomp about making baseless accusations. You call people out for the quality of their cites, yet you do not read them. 

I've read Goddess's, actually.  Not yours since I haven't seen them, but since you and G agree, I'd assumed they were the same.  My bad.  :)

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6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

That is beside the point. You cant move the goal posts on me. Most of covid data is not verified, so pick your poison.

Its also why you are so boring. You dont really understand things. Just whatever google feeds you that confirms your bias.

You are so biased.

 

LOL. 'CDC tells you that the data from VAERS is unverifited and 'that's beside the point'?  I'm moving the goalposts because I don't accept unverified data?  Right.

If I'm so boring, stop responding.  It's easy enough to do.

Like you don't search on Google, LOL.  

And you aren't biased.  LMAO

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8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It’s funny how covid is entirely political to you.

It's just that, when you talk about freedom and liberty, and then wax poetic about countries with much higher taxation, much higher energy costs. SOCIALISM!!!

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35 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

That is beside the point. You cant move the goal posts on me. Most of covid data is not verified, so pick your poison.

Its also why you are so boring. You dont really understand things. Just whatever google feeds you that confirms your bias.

You are so biased.

Well VAERS data is not conclusive evidence that the vaccine is unsafe. And anyone who thinks that is woefully misinformed. 

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17 hours ago, Spiderfish said:

Yes...unvaccinated too.  There seems to be some confusion regarding whether people are in hospital "with" covid or "of" covid.   this applies to fatalities as well.  This pandemic and the reaction to it has been driven primarily by statistics and numbers, for some reason there has been a concerted effort to inflate the numbers of infected, as evidenced by the cycle threshold of vaccine testing which is now disallowed due to it's inherent inaccuracy and overinflated false-positive rate, as well as many other examples of manipulation of case numbers.

If we're going to count someone with multiple underlying issues as Covid positive, regardless of the severity of their infection, and include them in covid hospitalization statistics, it has to be the same regardless of the person's vaccination status.  There cannot be two different sets of criteria to try and prop up statistics.

Well the ultimate metric is infection and hospitalization rates. 

If most people in the ICU are unvaccinated and they represent approach only a 1/4 of the population (10% of the eligible population) then it's a disease overwhelmingly effecting the unvaccinated. 

Luckily, in places with high vaccination rates, hospitalizations have not spiked in the fourth wave and restrictions continue to ease. 

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6 minutes ago, Boges said:

It's just that, when you talk about freedom and liberty, and then wax poetic about countries with much higher taxation, much higher energy costs. SOCIALISM!!!

Wow wow how do you brand a government official raking $400,000 (while our frontline hero gets 20) with no risks, accountability or relation to the results? Is it still capitalism or Dr. Marx dream come true please we want to know?

He brands systems that actually work for the citizens achieving excellent results without interrupting normal life to praise mediocre status quo of hallway medicine, "crumbling system" (not my term) and multiple endless lockdowns failing to come even close with obscene compensations for the managers with no relation to the outcome (travel from Wuhan, retirement homes fiasco, you can go on and on). Isn't it time to turn on the eyes and what they are connected to, Joe? If you don't happen to have a package with automatic annual rise, there may be more surprises for you in store.

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2 minutes ago, myata said:

Wow wow how do you brand a government official raking $400,000 (while our frontline hero gets 20) with no risks, accountability or relation to the results? Is it still capitalism or Dr. Marx dream come true please we want to know?

He brands systems that actually work for the citizens achieving excellent results without interrupting normal life to praise mediocre status quo of hallway medicine, "crumbling system" (not my term) and multiple endless lockdowns failing to come even close with obscene compensations for the managers with no relation to the outcome (travel from Wuhan, retirement homes fiasco, you can go on and on). Isn't it time to turn on the eyes and what they are connected to, Joe? If you don't happen to have a package with automatic annual rise, there may be more surprises for you in store.

So you want to cap wages? Socialist!

 

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3 minutes ago, Boges said:

So you want to cap wages? Socialist!

Really, how could you make entitlements of government managers tied to the result and the reality of the country? It would be capitalism! Aiii, catastrophe!

Listen, there's nothing better for you than bureaucracy out of limits and controls that takes care of you and pays itself whatever it wants regardless of .. pretty much anything. Just believe us, as you always have. And anything other is scary SOCIALISM, buga-buga-boo!!

Edited by myata
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Just now, myata said:

How could you make government managers wages tied to the result? It would be capitalism! Aiii catastrophe!

What are the KPIs you're looking for? 

The less you pay people in the government, the worse people you're going to get get. 

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2 minutes ago, Boges said:

The less you pay people in the government, the worse people you're going to get get. 

You mean, you can get worse than "travel from Wuhan" and aiii it's oh so new people? How do you know it's possible?

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50 minutes ago, Boges said:

So you want to cap wages? Socialist!

Thanks for confirming though, you're advocating obscene and surreal compensations (according to their needs, with no relation to the reality) with not even slightest relation to the produced results (according to their abilities, whatever they are). That's Papa Marx's famous formula except it was supposed to apply to everybody, and that makes you a Communist. Now that is clear and wraps up the discussion.

Edited by myata
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46 minutes ago, Boges said:

Well the ultimate metric is infection and hospitalization rates. 

If most people in the ICU are unvaccinated and they represent approach only a 1/4 of the population (10% of the eligible population) then it's a disease overwhelmingly effecting the unvaccinated.

Not necessarily.  What are they in the ICU for?  If someone is in ICU battling COPD or stage 4 cancer but has tested positive for Covid, is this considered a covid case?  They would be in the ICU regardless.

I understand your point that overall numbers of vaxxed vs unvaxxed in ICU indicate general trend, and I agree with this.  But this doesn't necessarily accurately reflect the true numbers.  Factor in a concerted effort by the system to deem everyone as a covid case who has tested positive regardless of severity to pump the numbers, and I suspect it's not quite as binary as it appears. 

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21 minutes ago, myata said:

Thanks for confirming though, you're advocating obscene and surreal compensations (according to their needs) with not even slightest relation to the produced results (according to their abilities whatever they are). That is Papa Marx's famous formula except it was supposed to apply to everybody, and that makes you a Communist. Now that is clear and wraps up the discussion.

I'm sure you're an excellent arbiter of who and who shouldn't be making generous incomes. 

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Just now, Spiderfish said:

Not necessarily.  What are they in the ICU for?  If someone is in ICU battling COPD or stage 4 cancer but has tested positive for Covid, is this considered a covid case?  They would be in the ICU regardless.

That's just a hypothetical. COVID patients tend to spend a very long time in an ICU. They can't breath on their own. 

 

Quote

I understand your point that overall numbers of vaxxed vs unvaxxed in ICU indicate general trend, and I agree with this.  But this doesn't necessarily accurately reflect the true numbers.  Factor in a concerted effort by the system to deem everyone as a covid case who has tested positive regardless of severity to pump the numbers, and I suspect it's not quite as binary as it appears. 

If people don't believe the numbers governments are giving, then it's tough to debate the merits of any given decision. 

You also can't debate with a Flat Earther who thinks a photo of the Globe is fake. 

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Just now, Boges said:

I'm sure you're an excellent arbiter of who and who shouldn't be making generous incomes. 

Not me, they just need to be related to the produced results. There are countries that never had a lockdown, as they are known here, and with far better results. It would be interesting to compare compensation packages in those successful places if anyone was interested. It's a fact though that an MP in Norway makes approximately a double of the average income, while here MP salaries are out of all bounds imaginable. And of course those MP are actually representatives, not stooges of party nomenclature.

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1 minute ago, myata said:

Not me, they just need to be related to the produced results. There are countries that never had a lockdown, as they are known here, and with far better results. It would be interesting to compare compensation packages in those successful places if anyone was interested. It's a fact though that an MP in Norway makes approximately a double of the average income, while here MP salaries are out of all bounds imaginable. And of course those MP are actually representatives, not stooges of party nomenclature.

How does an MP make specific decisions related to COVID? 

Each Province had a different approach to this pandemic. 

Right now, I'd suggest officials in Alberta removing public safety measures would qualify them for less compensation to those in Ontario and Quebec. 

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10 minutes ago, Boges said:

I'm sure you're an excellent arbiter of who and who shouldn't be making generous incomes. 

Certainly, if it's not some authoritarian paradise someone or something would need to take a very good look at who is raking outrages incomes from public funds (no don't cry, make it in your own private business with no limits just pay taxes, no socialisms) why, with what relation to the reality and the produced results. Otherwise, and obviously, "don't blow on the crumbling system" wouldn't be the final stage, why would it?

Edited by myata
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10 minutes ago, Spiderfish said:

Not necessarily.  What are they in the ICU for?  If someone is in ICU battling COPD or stage 4 cancer but has tested positive for Covid, is this considered a covid case?  They would be in the ICU regardless.

I understand your point that overall numbers of vaxxed vs unvaxxed in ICU indicate general trend, and I agree with this.  But this doesn't necessarily accurately reflect the true numbers.  Factor in a concerted effort by the system to deem everyone as a covid case who has tested positive regardless of severity to pump the numbers, and I suspect it's not quite as binary as it appears. 

If someone with Covid or cancer or even old age is living outside of the hospital, but the added stress of Covid hospitalizes them, I'd say that's a Covid case.  

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8 minutes ago, Spiderfish said:

Not necessarily.  What are they in the ICU for?  If someone is in ICU battling COPD or stage 4 cancer but has tested positive for Covid, is this considered a covid case?  They would be in the ICU regardless.

I understand your point that overall numbers of vaxxed vs unvaxxed in ICU indicate general trend, and I agree with this.  But this doesn't necessarily accurately reflect the true numbers.  Factor in a concerted effort by the system to deem everyone as a covid case who has tested positive regardless of severity to pump the numbers, and I suspect it's not quite as binary as it appears. 

What sent them to the ICU in the first place, their original condition or Covid? How many people do you think become infected while they are actually in ICU? It isn’t that complicated.

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Unfortunately one cannot trust any data coming from PH authorities in this country without independent verification as it's manipulated to support dogmas of the day. For example as was shown recently, ICU statistics in proportion to reported cases suddenly jumped close to 100% earlier this fall compared to analogous period last year and far exceeded similar statistics in peer countries. This is the sad state of affairs we have come to, but hardly surprisingly, by voluntarily relinquishing any checks and controls on the all-powerful bureaucracy. Now we cannot even work intelligently on the best approaches because we cannot know what is actually going on. The objective is not learning and improvement, but proving self-propagated dogma of the day.

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12 minutes ago, myata said:

Unfortunately one cannot trust any data coming from PH authorities in this country without independent verification as it's manipulated to support dogmas of the day. For example as was shown recently, ICU statistics in proportion to reported cases suddenly jumped close to 100% earlier this fall compared to analogous period last year and far exceeded similar statistics in peer countries. This is the sad state of affairs we have come to, but hardly surprisingly, by voluntarily relinquishing any checks and controls on the all-powerful bureaucracy. Now we cannot even work intelligently on the best approaches because we cannot know what is actually going on. The objective is not learning and improvement, but proving self-propagated dogma of the day.

Yet governments of all stripes seem to come to the same conclusion. 

Did you ever suspect that Scandinavian countries fared better with COVID because of their robust taxation system and their citizen actually listen to their government? 

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