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Returning to normal


myata

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Returning to normal normal is not expected in Ontario anytime soon as the case are edging up again and the Doctor saying that reopening (did you notice any, around?) was too fast. Expect surprises if and when they get closer to the magic number. But OK maybe at least in the rest of the world.

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Not sure if I am pouring water or gasoline on this fire, but let me relate some of my personal experiences with Wuhan Virus.

First of all, I am NOT a medical professional, do not play one on television or youtube but I DID spend a couple weeks at a Holiday Inn Express in IA last month.  I DO have a bunch of medical professionals as children and friends, though, so I tend to check my assumptions with them.

For those who might want some idea how the Wuhan Virus actually works - here is a link:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcimb.2020.00317/full

You can pretend I said all of these things to sound smart.

On the vax vs. why side: one of my close friends is a pediatric surgeon in UK.  He was and remains pro vax simply because as has been posted it can "flatten the curve".  His hospital in Manchester has hit the 100% capacity many times.  What the street doesn't see is that once they get that cleared, the backlog of surguries leaves him and staff working 18 hour days for weeks to months afterwards to clear up.   ANYTHING that can prevent that kind of irregular flow is hugely beneficial.

One of my business partners in the US is married to a rabid anti-vaxxer.  He tends to follow a fair bit in that path, somewhat to keep peace but also since he is incessantly bombarded with vaccine "poison" stories.  It is worth noting that NO vaccine is 100% effective nor 100% safe.   As I believe has been pointed out several times by now, NOTHING is 100% safe, but we MUST do some things, such as drive a car or ride a bus that have far, far greater risk that that of vaccination with any approved compound.   We also universally CHOOSE to use OTC drugs, illegal drugs, alcohol drugs and processed foods that present far, far greater risk.  But in most cases, those choices mostly impact us as individuals and family, not those around us who have no other relationship.   Well, my friend (a competitive trap shooter) went to an event in August and reported that he had caught a cold.  Mildly syptomatic the next week or two, then on with life.  In September, I almost fell over when he told me he had been vaccinated (so we had option of attending meetings on either side of border).  No fuss, no muss, just out of the blue got a jab.   Well, he is on oxygen now - only way he can get his blood O2 sats up enough to be able to sleep.  NOW he admits he is pretty sure he had Wuhan VIrus.  I no longer get an anti-vax lecture with every daily report.

So, here's the deal:  If you read the stuff I linked, you would know the entry point to infection for the SARS Cov2 virus is through ACE2.  Any organ that its system is protecting becomes a source of infection for SARS.  Problem is: nobody can predict how, or how much damage is going to occur if and when you become infected.  Yes, the pulmonary sites are expected, but because of ACE2 involvement damage (as in minor to major, short term to permanent) can occur to vascular, myocardial, renal and even Neurological organs and systems.

So, until something better comes along (bear in mind treatment not initiated until patient is symptomatic may be too late to prevent permanent damage) I will look at the numbers (have) and conclude the lowest risk to me and family is to go with the current vaccines.  While they may not prevent infection they provide far more likely reduced permanent damage to organs.

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3 hours ago, cannuck said:

Problem is: nobody can predict how, or how much damage is going to occur if and when you become infected

I'm certainly not against preventative treatments that were tested and approved, and I think it's wrong to set the question in the pro / against frame that unfortunately, less than intelligent and very persistent mass propaganda greatly contributed to. And I took both shots too, at this time voluntarily that I never hide.

But isn't setting the question in terms of prediction misleading? What can be predicted with absolute certainty in today's life? We know thanks to statistics that the chance of having a traffic accident in Ontario is approximately 0.5% per year (5 in a thousand, on average). Can we "predict" that setting off to work or for groceries an accident is guaranteed to not happen? But we do have statistics and it can tell us what is the chance for a young and healthy individual to have serious Covid and how does it compare with that for example, of a traffic accident.

And so I think that at this point and going forward we need and deserve clear and honest answers to these questions:

- what are the parameters of treatments? What do they protect and may not protect from, and for how long?

- how do risks of serious illness compare to other risks? In other words, for who the treatment has the highest priority?

- what is the prognosis and the exit strategy? I already said that I took initial q-vaccination voluntarily. But I would have to make a much more detailed analysis and much more thinking to accept the possibility of ongoing, possibly indefinitely mRNA "boosting". And I think it would be careless and irresponsible to jump into this entirely novel paradigm blindly, without careful and detailed consideration of possible effects and consequences only on the word of the same people who said that traveling from Wuhan was not a problem. No they don't have anywhere close credibility for that with me. And neither does the propaganda.

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5 hours ago, Boges said:

Not many. But they still contribute to spread.

So?  Vaccinate the vulnerable and let them individually decide how much or little they want to be out and about and let everyone else get back to normal.

No one has the "right" to not be infected.  That's act of God stuff.  Protect yourself as much as you can and let others do the same.

5 hours ago, Boges said:

I read last week that almost a third of the cases in Ontario one day were under 19. 

So?  That age group has an almost 0% chance of dying from covid.  But they have a 4X risk of life-altering adverse reactions from the vax.

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

So now, I have to go searching? 

I'm sure they're VAERS based figures. 

They weren't.

Yes, you have to go searching now because you ignored it the first time, like you usually do.

Off the top of my head, given the almost 0% chance of someone in that age group dying of covid, their risk of myocarditis and other adverse responses was 4X as high.

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The numbers were posted earlier. The risk of a severe Covid for healthy under 19 is less then a thousandth of that of a traffic accident. Combined with confirmed fact that vaccinated can spread easily and higher probability of adverse effects there's simply no reason or ethic based cause to force mass q-vaccination is this group. If it still happens all consequences will have to be on the conscience and responsibility of the masterminds.

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15 minutes ago, myata said:

The numbers were posted earlier. The risk of a severe Covid for healthy under 19 is less then a thousandth of that of a traffic accident. Combined with confirmed fact that vaccinated can spread easily and higher probability of adverse effects there's simply no reason or ethic based cause to force mass q-vaccination is this group. If it still happens all consequences will have to be on the conscience and responsibility of the masterminds.

They've been posted several times, actually.

I think the reason he ignores them is because he's made it clear that he doesn't care how many young people die or have heart problems for the rest of their lives - as long as he gets his illusion of safety.

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At least there are a few countries of the world who are wising up and halting the vax for young people, given the greater risk of adverse events.

Six EU countries suspended Moderna COVID-19 vaccine for young people (medicaltrend.org)

Sweden and Denmark suspend use of Moderna COVID vaccine for younger age groups over risks | Euronews

It's frightening that so many Canadians, despite us being a modern and so-called enlightened country, are insisting that young people die and be disabled for the rest of their lives for people in their 80s and 90s.

Appalling, really.

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10 hours ago, Boges said:

People on this site like to point out that 7,000 people in the US die each day. What's the statistical chances that some of those people, earlier in the year, got the vaccine. Especially considering older people got the vaccine first. 

Not many. But they still contribute to spread. I read last week that almost a third of the cases in Ontario one day were under 19. 

Anti-vaxxers like to perpetuate the lie that vaccinated people are as contagious as unvaxxed. That's simply not true. If you do get a break-through infection, you're infected for much less time. 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html

 

Not sure where your going on point 0ne.

The Vaccine does not stop the spread, you can be vaccinated and still spread the virus.

That may be true, that a full 1/3 of the cases reported are under 19, my question was how many have died of covid under 18 years of age , and do they really need to be vaccinated, and if not then why are we about to start to force our children to get the jab....   it seems the younger you get the higher chances you have of living.

Not true everyone can be contagious regardless of vaccination status, what the vaccination does is keep hospitalizations down to a manageable level , because those that are vaccinated don't get as sick. My point is anyone can catch the virus, and pass it on, vaccinated or not......contagious is contagious, 

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43 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Not sure where your going on point 0ne.

The Vaccine does not stop the spread, you can be vaccinated and still spread the virus.

That may be true, that a full 1/3 of the cases reported are under 19, my question was how many have died of covid under 18 years of age , and do they really need to be vaccinated, and if not then why are we about to start to force our children to get the jab....   it seems the younger you get the higher chances you have of living.

Not true everyone can be contagious regardless of vaccination status, what the vaccination does is keep hospitalizations down to a manageable level , because those that are vaccinated don't get as sick. My point is anyone can catch the virus, and pass it on, vaccinated or not......contagious is contagious, 

For God's sake, 17 Canadian children have died of Covid-19 since the start of the pandemic.  It's absolutely evil the restrictions we're imposing on children and the society at large.  They were defensible before most of the vulnerable became fully vaccinated.  Once everyone in every vulnerable age group got the opportunity to get vaxxed, and particularly after reaching the point we're at now, with around 85% fully-vaxxed and over 90% at least partially vaxxed, there's no justification for further restrictions and vaccine mandates whatsoever.  Only if and when hospitals become overwhelmed are greater precautions necessary.  What's happening now is nothing less than extreme government overreach and control.  It's fascism.

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The two years of the pandemic as probably with many of the problems that are in store in this century show that there will be no magical panacea, a quick and easy silver bullet fix out of this conundrum like in the movie. There are two essentially different and diverging toward a full disconnect directions: courage; will; intelligence; efficiency; and trust; and cooperation to coexist with the infection while letting the society live, and in a meaningful rather than survival-only mode. And the second one is ongoing emergency and panic for as long as necessary indefinitely. No there will be no magical q-vaccination cure. Propaganda marches, heartfelt appeals, intimidation and coercion were basically, for nothing. And it's clearer which path the country is settling into. Even as usual, thoughtlessly and by default.

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Ooh...scarey Aristides. Maybe you should move to Sweden.

Sweden obliterates the lie of ‘vaccines’ as ticket to ending pandemic

"It is now undeniable that in almost every part of North America, Europe, and East Asia, the pandemic is more prolific than it ever was before a single person was vaccinated, even though most of those countries have nearly every adult vaccinated. Thus, it is impossible to deny that vaccinologists like Geert Vanden Bossche and Luc Montagnier were correct when they predicted that mass vaccination with a suboptimal, non-sterilizing vaccine in middle of a pandemic would create vaccine-mediated viral enhancement. It's hard to imagine how people who pushed this strategy didn't see this coming.

The typical retort to this allegation is that it's all the fault of "the Delta" and that somehow things would have been even worse without the shots. The problem with this assertion is that we are seeing the sharpest waves ever in the most vaccinated countries. Also, the fact that Sweden has never gotten a Delta wave demonstrates that natural immunity alone would have ended this pandemic."

There's more at the link.

https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-sweden-obliterates-the-lie-of-vaccines-as-ticket-to-ending-pandemic

Edited by Infidel Dog
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Also Aristides you seem to be pushing a collection of lies up there.

Here are some more facts your Ministry of Truth isn't telling you.

* The vaccinated can transmit the virus.

* There are breakthrough infections amongst the jabbed.

* Record infections can happen in areas that have the highest rates of supposed vaccination.

* The efficacy of the mRNA jab decreases over time. between 4 to 8 months.

* The efficacy of being naturally immune far surpasses the mRNA jab by any metric.

* In an increasing number of locales infected among the vaccinated match or even outnumber those among the non-compliant.

* There are about 10 times more adverse reactions listed by the American government registry VAERS than all other claimed vaccines in the 31 year history of the registry. Also it is estimated by some that VAERS is only able to list about 1% of the actual adverse reactions. (I may be off a bit on the numbers there, but I know for a fact they're impressive and I can provide a link upon request)

* The mRNA jab is experimental. There are worries even worse problems including variations of the Chi-Comm virus, and weakening of the immune system - Prions and folding protein spikes and much more. Even deaths.

 

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22 hours ago, Boges said:

Local governments took money from Pfizer? 

Local governments do what they're told.  It's rare for a politician to stick up for and speak for their constituents.  Nadine Wilson, SK - is one.

It was  in the MSM that doctors have been paid over 151 million $$ by Pfizer.

The Canadian company that invented the lipid nanoparticles, our government gets a cut of every single vaccine from all over the world.  I'm close to figuring out if Trudeau is a major shareholder in that company - Acuitas.  If he is, it would be hugely inappropriate for him to be profiting from this, but it would explain his angry comments that "Unless you want to spend the rest of your natural life in your house, you will get vaccinated."

(That doesn't sound totalitarian at all ?)

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32 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Also, the fact that Sweden has never gotten a Delta wave demonstrates that natural immunity alone would have ended this pandemic."

Which is exactly what prominent virologists and scientists have said from the beginning.  And it's also what the world's pandemic emergency plan said we were going to do, but we did not. That we should have done what we could to protect the vulnerable and then let 'er rip through the rest of the population. 

But they have been silenced and discredited by Big Pharma.

We were also told that mass vaccination DURING a pandemic was exceptionally stupid, that it would drive variants and kill even more people, but again - between Big Pharma and idiot governments responding to and creating a terrified public, we did not follow any of the laid out plans, and they silenced anyone who spoke logically and truthfully.

You can say what you want about these discredited scientists and virologists, but absolutely everything they predicted would happen from the mass vaccinations and lockdowns has happened - 100%.

Maybe it's time we started listening to them before more people die.

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Outbreaks in highly vaccinated places and recent results on transmission is already a nail into the coffin of the mass vaccination strategy from any intelligent point of view - it simply does not have a reasonable exit. An emergence of a resistant variant would make it just impossible to ignore although I'm quite sure bandwagon exsperts will find some excuse.

The only intelligent approach is to protect the vulnerable while letting natural immunity to adapt to the novel threat. This is how it worked for ages, and it worked.

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2 hours ago, Goddess said:

It was  in the MSM that doctors have been paid over 151 million $$ by Pfizer.

The Canadian company that invented the lipid nanoparticles, our government gets a cut of every single vaccine from all over the world.  I'm close to figuring out if Trudeau is a major shareholder in that company - Acuitas.  If he is, it would be hugely inappropriate for him to be profiting from this, but it would explain his angry comments that "Unless you want to spend the rest of your natural life in your house, you will get vaccinated."

(That doesn't sound totalitarian at all ?)

Don't you have a link for any of that? 

Quote

Local governments do what they're told.  It's rare for a politician to stick up for and speak for their constituents.  Nadine Wilson, SK - is one.

No one told the Mayor of Canada's 6th largest city to question the Premiere's re-opening timeline. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/mississauga-s-mayor-concerned-about-ont-s-proposed-dates-for-lifting-all-covid-19-restrictions-1.5642140

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1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

There's a name for what you're describing but I forget it.

Pathogens become drug resistant when you only partially kill them off.  It's virology 101- proven science - and this is what many virologists said would happen with these "leaky" shots.  When you are vaccinated with a "leaky" vaccine, you can still get and transmit the virus. It's what drove the variants.  It's why these are not true "vaccines" like polio and smallpox were.

Virology 101 - again, proven science - is that you never, ever, ever  mass vaccinate DURING a pandemic.  You vaccinate the vulnerable only.  Your immune system temporarily is compromised for up to 2 weeks post-vaccination.  The world's health authorities know this - this is why you are not counted as "fully vaxxed" until AFTER that 2 week period.  Unfortunately, they ignored the rest of the equation - mass vaccinating populations temporarily compromises immune systems, so now you have millions of people running around spreading the virus and not able to fight it properly with their own immune systems.

Don't even get me started on ADE - antibody dependent enhancement.  Another thing that is happening that all the true scientists and virologists warned would happen, but were not listened to so Big Harma could make their $$billions$$, at the cost of human lives.

This entire thing has NOT followed the science at all.  And they know it.

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