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myata

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14 minutes ago, Boges said:

Did you ever suspect that Scandinavian countries fared better with COVID because of their robust taxation system <and> their citizen actually listen to their government? 

If anyone cared, they could compare effective (i.e. all levels and types) taxes in Canada and these countries. My guess would be that they would be on the same level. But of course, after citizens money are collected the question is how they are spend. Some invest them in a quality modern system working for the citizens. Others, spend on management perks and golden parachutes going into their private cottages and mansions (and foreign trips while everybody is supposed to be in lockdown). To each, their own.

I prefer citizens own and control their governments, and for that reason they mostly make sense to the citizens (and if they don't citizens change them). But you are free to think it the other way. That way of thinking would of course, be more aligned with communist ideology.

Edited by myata
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1 hour ago, Boges said:

That's just a hypothetical. COVID patients tend to spend a very long time in an ICU. They can't breath on their own. 

 

Hypothetical?  the family of Colin Powell (and many others) may disagree with you. There was an example just last week of the Alberta CMO having to apologize to a family and walk back a story of a patient who they publicly declared died of covid when they actually died of cancer.  There are many other stories like this if you look.

1 hour ago, Boges said:

f people don't believe the numbers governments are giving, then it's tough to debate the merits of any given decision. 

It's not about believing or not believing, it's about which numbers they are giving, how they are coming up with them, and if there is an underlying motive for the statistics they are and are not releasing, motives which governments always have.  The province that I live in has already come out and said outright that they are not going to release certain data.  Wonder why? How are we supposed to  "believe" anything if they are admittedly suppressing data?

Go ahead and trust your government if you choose, I have always given a great deal of caution and skepticism of everything that the media and Government say, and it has served me well. 

And as for your  depreciative "flat earther" shot...Boges, I've debated you for long enough here that I know you can do better than that.

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16 hours ago, dialamah said:

There have been virtually no deaths from the vaccine

Why do you think that?  Because the media isn't telling those stories, so "virtually no one has died from the vax"?  You really think virtually no one has died from this vax?

You need to educate yourself on what is really going on.  Just the adverse reactions alone, never mind the deaths, are mind-boggling as to why we are continuing to force people to vax.

Most vaccines are removed from the shelf and never used again if there are as little as 5 deaths.

This one has killed and maimed waaaay more people than that.  And we are forcing people to do it.  Forcing it on children, who have very little chance of dying of covid, but it's already been in the news that Moderna is not recommending their vax for teenage/young adult boys and WE ARE STILL FORCING THEM TO VAX!

You don't even wonder why?

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16 hours ago, dialamah said:

if it doesn't come from some fringe website, it doesn't exist for you.

MSM is not telling the stories of people who have been harmed or died from the vax.

Seriously, watch some of the videos and read some of the stories of what people are going through after this vax.  They are really frustrated because the media is not telling people what's truly happening.

When things are going very very wrong, it's NEVER MSM that is honest.  Sheesh, look at countries where the government turns totalitarian - you think you're getting the truth from government sponsored media.

Wakey Wakey

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

Scandinavian countries fared better with COVID

Fared better than Canada?

I will give you Finland and Norway…  they had very similar restrictions to Canada, as I showed in another post.  Their mortality rates are below Canada’s.

Don’t the anti-restriction people hold Sweden up as the gold standard for COVID response?

Sweden - 146 deaths per 100,000 people

Canada - 76 deaths per 100,000 people

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

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2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Fared better than Canada?

I will give you Finland and Norway…  they had very similar restrictions to Canada, as I showed in another post.  Their mortality rates are below Canada’s.

Don’t the anti-restriction people hold Sweden up as the gold standard for COVID response?

Sweden - 146 deaths per 100,000 people

Canada - 76 deaths per 100,000 people

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

The Anti-Vax Anti Public Health people don't really deal in facts. 

It's easy to dismiss policy when you outright reject what is true. 

When everything is a conspiracy, then nothing is true. 

Edited by Boges
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Ichor Blood Services Scales Alberta Operations to Manage Strong Demand for Quantitative COVID-19 Antibody Testing Offered in Partnership with Mayo Clinic Laboratories (newswire.ca)

Results from 4,300 tests completed to date show a 42% positivity rate for antibodies among unvaccinated Albertans, with 12% having scores equivalent to double vaccinated clients.

Test results for those who self-identified as fully vaccinated show that 70% have antibody levels at the upper threshold of the test at 250 U/ml, while 30% came back with scores below 250, out of which 10% scored zero. Ichor believes that quantitative COVID-19 antibody testing provides important data that should be considered in the Government's pandemic response, and the company urges policy makers to begin including this data in its decision-making process.

"The data proves that vaccines offer very strong antibody protection for the vast majority of people who get immunized, but we can also clearly see that there is a percentage of people who get no protection, even after two vaccine doses," continued Kuzmickas. "At the same time, we can see that a percentage of unvaccinated people have strong antibody levels and 42% of unvaccinated people have some level of antibodies in their system. These tests can be a powerful tool for policy makers to get a more nuanced understanding about protection from COVID-19 in the population."

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Just now, Boges said:

The Anti-Vax Anti Public Health people don't really deal in facts. 

It's easy to dismiss policy when you outright reject what is true. 

When everything is a conspiracy, then nothing is true. 

Are the anti-vax people on this forum just flinging poo at the wall and hoping it sticks? 

“It’s the people who would die anyway that are dying”

”My friend in an unnamed hospital says it’s not so bad”

”The MSM and fake news aren’t telling us about all those vaccine related deaths”

”A father of three beautiful girls says restrictions are bad”

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2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Ichor Blood Services Scales Alberta Operations to Manage Strong Demand for Quantitative COVID-19 Antibody Testing Offered in Partnership with Mayo Clinic Laboratories (newswire.ca)

Results from 4,300 tests completed to date show a 42% positivity rate for antibodies among unvaccinated Albertans, with 12% having scores equivalent to double vaccinated clients.

Test results for those who self-identified as fully vaccinated show that 70% have antibody levels at the upper threshold of the test at 250 U/ml, while 30% came back with scores below 250, out of which 10% scored zero. Ichor believes that quantitative COVID-19 antibody testing provides important data that should be considered in the Government's pandemic response, and the company urges policy makers to begin including this data in its decision-making process.

"The data proves that vaccines offer very strong antibody protection for the vast majority of people who get immunized, but we can also clearly see that there is a percentage of people who get no protection, even after two vaccine doses," continued Kuzmickas. "At the same time, we can see that a percentage of unvaccinated people have strong antibody levels and 42% of unvaccinated people have some level of antibodies in their system. These tests can be a powerful tool for policy makers to get a more nuanced understanding about protection from COVID-19 in the population."

What is the reason that you believe these results from this story?

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6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

MSM is not telling the stories of people who have been harmed or died from the vax.

Seriously, watch some of the videos and read some of the stories of what people are going through after this vax.  They are really frustrated because the media is not telling people what's truly happening.

When things are going very very wrong, it's NEVER MSM that is honest.  Sheesh, look at countries where the government turns totalitarian - you think you're getting the truth from government sponsored media.

Wakey Wakey

Anaphylaxis after COVID-19 vaccination is rare and has occurred in approximately 2 to 5 people per million vaccinated in the United States. 

Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) after Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen (J&J/Janssen) COVID-19 vaccination is rare. As of October 13, 2021, more than 15.2 million doses of the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine have been given in the United States. CDC and FDA identified 47 confirmed reports of people who got the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and later developed TTS. 

Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 408 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through October 18, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,878 reports of death (0.0022%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem.

 

 

United States

Coronavirus Cases:

46,101,362

Deaths:

751,953

Recovered:

35,816,828
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Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States (nih.gov)

This is pretty technical so I know some of you here won't be able to assimilate the information.

But basically, vaccination is not really affecting infection levels much.

Quote

 

The sole reliance on vaccination as a primary strategy to mitigate COVID-19 and its adverse consequences needs to be re-examined, especially considering the Delta (B.1.617.2) variant and the likelihood of future variants. Other pharmacological and non-pharmacological interventions may need to be put in place alongside increasing vaccination rates. Such course correction, especially with regards to the policy narrative, becomes paramount with emerging scientific evidence on real world effectiveness of the vaccines.

In summary, even as efforts should be made to encourage populations to get vaccinated it should be done so with humility and respect. Stigmatizing populations can do more harm than good. Importantly, other non-pharmacological prevention efforts (e.g., the importance of basic public health hygiene with regards to maintaining safe distance or handwashing, promoting better frequent and cheaper forms of testing) needs to be renewed in order to strike the balance of learning to live with COVID-19 in the same manner we continue to live a 100 years later with various seasonal alterations of the 1918 Influenza virus.

 

 

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The thing is, serious side effects have been reported. 

The AZ vaccine was essentially mothballed because it had a 1 in 60,000 chance of causing a blood clot. 

This myocarditis thing is being taken seriously, In Ontario they now recommend young men only get the Pfizer vaccine and if there is evidence of Myocarditis from the first shot, a person is medically exempt from the second shot. 

Anti-Vaxxers will have you believe that the vaccines cause way more "unspecific" serious vaccine. 

They really are a scourge on society. 

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5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

What is the reason that you believe these results from this story?

They ae independent of the mainstream media and the government.

Why do you instinctively reject their findings?

I doubt you even read the article, as you responded so quickly, it was clear you didn't have time to read it.

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Just now, Goddess said:

They ae independent of the mainstream media and the government.

Why do you instinctively reject their findings?

I doubt you even read the article, as you responded so quickly, it was clear you didn't have time to read it.

Almost every MSM report links to the independent findings they are simply reporting on. 

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3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Are the anti-vax people on this forum just flinging poo at the wall and hoping it sticks? 

They're saying: "My body, my choice." You can't lie to people for 22 months straight and then just expect them to trust you when you say "Drink this."

Quote

1) “It’s the people who would die anyway that are dying”

2) ”My friend in an unnamed hospital says it’s not so bad”

3) ”The MSM and fake news aren’t telling us about all those vaccine related deaths”

4) ”A father of three beautiful girls says restrictions are bad”

Everything that you just said there displays complete ignorance of the whole topic.

1) The MSM and health authorities have completely twisted and abused covid numbers for political purposes. Members of the general public who spent thousands of hours watching covid coverage in the MSM for the past two years have a completely distorted view of covid. My mother in law watches two hours of news a day and I still have to inform her of basic covid facts. It's sickening. 

2.1) Trumpeting misleading/false anecdotes, and putting faces on the stories of outliers that support your narrative while blocking more poignant stories that damage your false narrative are the MSM's two favourite pastimes. 

2.2) Your quote is an idiotic smear that has no place in polite dialogue. It's not a position of anyone in this debate that getting sent to the hospital isn't that bad.

3) You said something truthful. I'm not sure what to make of that.

4) Wow, your understanding of the world is on full display there. 

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15 hours ago, dialamah said:

With all due respect, Army Guy, there is a deliberate campaign from places like Russia and China to sow distrust of the vaccine (among other types of disinformation) through troll farms.  This is why I ignore or dismiss so many of the cites offered by Goddess/OW/Etc. and why I'll ignore "Burning Platform" and "much ado about corona".   

https://fortune.com/2021/07/23/russian-disinformation-campaigns-are-trying-to-sow-distrust-of-covid-vaccines-study-finds/

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/global-pulse/2021/01/28/what-chinas-vax-trolling-adds-up-to-491548

A campaign of misinformation from regimes that are opposed to us makes more sense to me than the idea that  thousands of professionals in Canada and 100s of thousands around the world are all in some kind of plot to trick us all into taking a vaccine in the midst of a pandemic.  MSM may not always get it right and they may be tilted left or right, but they're a darn site more trustworthy than random sites on the internet.

I was spectacle at first as well , but check the sources they provide from the US CDC and yes they are using VAERS and reports sent to them from all the different departments. So let me guess we can no longer trust any of the information that our government or other governments put out regarding covid. Who's info should i be trusting ? where are you getting your info from. 

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22 minutes ago, Boges said:

The Anti-Vax Anti Public Health people don't really deal in facts. 

The vaxx skeptics only deal in facts. Literally all that we do is point out actual facts that destroy the MSM's intentionally misleading narratives.

Quote

It's easy to dismiss policy when you outright reject what is true. 

The only people who are rejecting truths are the people who are sucked in by the MSM's false narratives.

Did you know that Demmies in the US thought that 40% of people who get covid end up in the hospital? It's actually between 1-5%, but almost all of those people are elderly with serious heath troubles. 

People who are grounded in facts are automatically skeptical of everything that they see from the MSM.

Quote

When everything is a conspiracy, then nothing is true. 

Dude, you've been parroting MSM narratives here for years and you just never learn. You end up with egg on your face after literally every single topic has run it's course. 

A good rule of thumb for you would be to just refrain from commenting on these topics so that people have to guess how 'wrong' you are. 

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9 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I was spectacle at first as well , but check the sources they provide from the US CDC and yes they are using VAERS and reports sent to them from all the different departments. So let me guess we can no longer trust any of the information that our government or other governments put out regarding covid. Who's info should i be trusting ? where are you getting your info from. 

VAERS reports can be made by anyone and they are not verified. Why would you trust them?

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15 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Mistakes always occur.  Do you believe that governments everywhere are purposely inflating numbers?  

If so, why would they need to pretend this 14 year old was killed by COVID?  Couldn’t they just put out fake numbers without needing a backstory?

Any adult will tell you mistakes always happen, and yes it is possible or more likely highly possible that mistakes were made in the governments numbers.

You should ask the senior provincial health official that released the wrong info to the media reporting he died from covid when it was a medical problem and he did not have covid to start with. It was the parents who would later correct the media. And i agree it could have been a mistake, or i could be an example of them fudging the numbers and proving those anti vaxxers wrong children do die from the virus.

And as some of your pro vaxxers have already stated those offical reports produced by the government to track everything about each vaccine are not accurate nor truthful, so where are you getting your info from, and why is it a trusted source ? I know you don't like answering questions , just asking them. 

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2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

VAERS reports can be made by anyone and they are not verified. Why would you trust them?

So how do we find out how many people are dying or being maimed from the vaccines?

Obviously people are dying and having extreme adverse reactions.

You say, they are all lying.  Virtually  no one has been hurt or died from the vax.

You say we can't trust VAErs.

The government and media tell us when we DO hear of someone dying after the vax that it's definitely NOT because of the vax because it's almost 100% safe.

So..... normally healthy people with no history of issues are dying within days of the vax or violently convulsing for months and it's all "coincidence" and they're all lying?

 

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6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

VAERS reports can be made by anyone and they are not verified. Why would you trust them?

Because this is what the government is basing there info off of. It is an official government reporting system. like i have asked before where do you get your numbers from ? educate me please ? 

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21 minutes ago, Goddess said:

They ae independent of the mainstream media and the government.

They are the experts, yes?  

Like Mayo Clinic.  

 

Quote

Why do you instinctively reject their findings?

Where did I say that I don’t believe their findings?

Their findings are going to be analyzed by the Mayo Clinic to better understand this virus.

The same Mayo Clinic who says the vaccines are safe and effective, which you don’t believe.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859

 

Quote

I doubt you even read the article, as you responded so quickly, it was clear you didn't have time to read it.

The news release from Ichor is pretty short…. 

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Quote

Do you believe that governments everywhere are purposely inflating numbers?  

It's starting to look that way.  Deena Hinshaw got caught inflating numbers, saying people who died of one thing actually died of covid. Other world leaders have also got caught fudging numbers.

She just recently said, that if any child is missing from school without a good reason, they are counted as a covid case.

I mean, really??  WTF

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4 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

so where are you getting your info from, and why is it a trusted source ?

I like the Mayo Clinic for COVID information.

As @Goddess says, it is MSM free.  I prefer that too.  

Journals like Nature and Scientific American are some of my favourite sources as well.  They always link back to the peer reviewed papers that they are writing about.

Why would you think I don’t answer questions?  

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