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Trudeau's hand-wringing, virtue signaling holiday


Argus

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16 hours ago, cougar said:

So you have a civilization , thousands of years old  in South America , but somehow you think this civilization waited for the Chinese to settle in North America and form various Indian tribes????

Sorry Cougar, but that is the current governing theory.

Try this one to start:

Quote

What was the Bering Land Bridge?

15,000 years ago in Northern Siberia, you could look toward Alaska and see nothing but dry land in every direction. You could walk from one continent to another and not even notice. In fact, many people did. Around this time, it is believed the first people crossed from Siberia into North America over dry land. The descendants of those first Americans would eventually spread out over two entire continents. How was this possible?

Bering Land Bridge

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16 hours ago, ironstone said:

If children are taken from homes without the parent’s consent by government policy, do you think the government should have to compensate the victims?

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16 hours ago, cougar said:

So you have a civilization , thousands of years old  in South America , but somehow you think this civilization waited for the Chinese to settle in North America and form various Indian tribes????

The earliest Andean (Incan) civilization was 3200 BCE.  If humans used the land bridge, or some other means, to come from what is now Asia 25-50,000 years ago, then the Andean civilizations easily fall within that timeframe.

Chinese?  Why would you think to call humans that lived in what is now called Siberia, Chinese?

Beringia_1.jpg

Edited by TreeBeard
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16 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Did they take children away from other people to try and eliminate their culture as well?  Or was this a particular policy in relation to the indigenous population?

The goal wasn’t to eliminate culture it was to educate.  It was a deeply flawed program.  Other people’s children didn’t need to be taken because they were already attending schools in the towns and cities they lived in.

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39 minutes ago, Shady said:

The goal wasn’t to eliminate culture it was to educate.  It was a deeply flawed program.  Other people’s children didn’t need to be taken because they were already attending schools in the towns and cities they lived in.

Do you think that your description of the goals of residential schools are generally different than the ones historians might give?

Did you know it was illegal at the time for indigenous children to attend any other school than residential schools?

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52 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Did they take children away from other people to try and eliminate their culture as well?  Or was this a particular policy in relation to the indigenous population?

Before you start feeling that liberal surge of pride that comes with heaping scorn on others, just remember that it was a liberal mindset that provided the justification (one of the nastiest words in the vernacular) for residential schools.

Leftists: "Whhhhoooaaaa! No Way! It had to be racism and religious bigotry!" (no doubt the latter was a factor, but racists wouldn't actually want FN people to get an education, would they? Doubtful)

The exact type of people who think that an 8 yr-old child should be able to talk to a guidance counsellor at school and then inform their parents that they'll be getting a sex change operation are the ones who felt like it was an abomination for kids to grow up in stone-age homes without access to K-12. Rez schools were the only viable option 130 years ago. Setting up thousands of schools all across Canada's vast wilderness was definitely not an option in 1890. 

The system wasn't designed as an outlet for sexual predators, that was just a basic human failure that wasn't anticipated. FYI lots of kids were still getting raped by priests in Boston in 1980. You could argue that Boston is one of the most modern cities in the world. MIT and Harvard are there. People in North America didn't consider clergymen to be sexual predators back in 1980, and they didn't in 1890 either, for certain. Society didn't believe white boys in Boston in 1980 when they said that they were being molested. No one in society could have even heard of what was happening in remote rez schools back in 1890. 

Rez schools were set up with the best of intentions and they ended up being the worst of all hellholes. The leftist narrative that we hear today is just their typical bullshit. 

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1 hour ago, Cannucklehead said:

Residential schools were about catholicism and converting the natives to them.  

When residential schools started, every school in Canada was run by catholics. (I never thought about this before, but my paternal grandmother was probably one of the first atheists to ever teach in Canada. I don't know how she became an atheist, because her father was a Mason.) 

You can diss catholics all you want, but this entire society comes directly from Judeo-Christian values and beliefs and it's one of the freest, most inclusive societies in the history of the world. Catholicism wasn't perfect, but it allowed us to get to the point where we're at.

FN people are a part of this society because of residential schools. If not for those, you'd have no way of communicating with them. All of the FN people that you consider to be your friends now would be complete strangers to you if not for res schools (conversely, if you're native, then you wouldn't know anyone from any other race or culture). 

I totally get that a lot res schools were an abomination on the inside, but I actually believe that there were also a lot of good people in them trying to help. If you think about it, most people who choose child care as a profession aren't 'evil'.

The current narrative that we're hearing is too one-sided, too unbelievable, too loaded with misleading innuendo, and too devoid of historical knowledge and understanding. We all know that there's not a culture that's exclusively loaded with decent people, or evil people. You'll find great people who are muslims living in Pakistan and you'll find evil people who are Buddhists living in Japan. That's life. 

In all honesty, the 'res school narrative' is crap. 

I get that we need to be understanding and empathetic, and reparations are definitely in order for the people who were harmed in them, but we don't need to rewrite history with falsehoods, dark innuendo and we can't act like everyone who worked in res schools was an orc.

I know that reparations won't heal anything, but I do think that they're necessary and that they might help to stop the damage from passing down through the generations. 

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20 hours ago, cougar said:

'The Inca Empire was the last chapter of thousands of years of

 

There are precisely ZERO scientists, archeologists or historians who believe human life arose here as opposed to tribes of hunter gatherers crossing the Beringia land bridge.

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4 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

If children are taken from homes without the parent’s consent by government policy, do you think the government should have to compensate the victims?

Children get taken away from parents all the time for one reason or another. This has been done with every ethnic group. All too often parents are not up to the job. It was done in a heavy handed way but they tried to get these children educated. I doubt this compensation will be a one time thing either.

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4 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

If children are taken from homes without the parent’s consent by government policy, do you think the government should have to compensate the victims?

That is not what the compensation is for.

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2 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

Residential schools were about catholicism and converting the natives to them.  

There were other religious groups involved. And conversion was certainly part of why they did it. But the government of that time didn't operate social services itself - for anyone. It used religious organizations for that.

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

There are precisely ZERO scientists, archeologists or historians who believe human life arose here as opposed to tribes of hunter gatherers crossing the Beringia land bridge.

From what I know human life arose in Africa or the Middle East, if one has to go by the oldest fossils dug out of the ground.

This is not the point.

The point is, there were humans in these lands for thousands of year before the Europeans came.

I'm getting tired or your fucking around really.   You are capable of calling what is white, black; then throwing dirt on it and saying 'You see, it really is black'

Edited by cougar
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5 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

 

Chinese?  Why would you think to call humans that lived in what is now called Siberia, Chinese?

Beringia_1.jpg

You ask Argus this question.  He was the guy suggesting the first nations came from China.

Again, I am not interested to go back 5,000 years to the beginning of time when people were more or less equal.

I want to go only some 500 years back, when the intelligent white man, came to North America and started shooting first nation people and buffalo alike, for the sport and to take over the land.

 

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6 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Sorry Cougar, but that is the current governing theory.

Try this one to start:

Bering Land Bridge

Don't send me 15,000 years back!

I am speaking about what is called "indigenous" today.  Not about Neanderthals or Parapithecus!

The theory of the Bering bridge is ONLY a theory.

 

 

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1 hour ago, cougar said:

The point is, there were humans in these lands for thousands of year before the Europeans came.

And the point is so what? All of human history in every part of the world is of groups, tribes, nations, peoples moving around, coming into conflict, fighting over territory and resources. Thousands of nations rose and fell over thousands of years, conquered, mixed in with others, whatever. That includes the UK and France, the ones who came here. Why do you imagine the natives would be immune from that happening? They certainly did it to each other before the white man showed up. Half the reason we can't settle land claims is multiple claims from multiple 'nations' who owned the same territory at different points in time before another native group threw them off.

So quit whining and thinking we should be any different.

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51 minutes ago, Argus said:

And the point is so what? All of human history in every part of the world is of groups, tribes, nations, peoples moving around, coming into conflict, fighting over territory and resources. Thousands of nations rose and fell over thousands of years, conquered, mixed in with others, whatever. That includes the UK and France, the ones who came here. Why do you imagine the natives would be immune from that happening? They certainly did it to each other before the white man showed up. Half the reason we can't settle land claims is multiple claims from multiple 'nations' who owned the same territory at different points in time before another native group threw them off.

So quit whining and thinking we should be any different.

The law and the courts do not recognize the bullshit you are trying to sell me.

The point is:

When England was a nation and had laws about land and private property they knew what they were doing according to their own laws was stealing the land and murdering the owners.

And because the law and the courts do not buy your type of bullshit, this is why someone is now apologizing and this is why there is that September 30th.

As I said, go to Scotland to shine with your knowledge.  Before that send Trudeau a letter to tell him what YOU think about history and how things should be. 

Maybe he will listen and we can then go invade Britain and put the Brits in residential schools to study the Chinese culture.

 

Edited by cougar
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On 9/30/2021 at 3:11 PM, BeaverFever said:

 

The list of horrors and unfair treatment that Canada has inflicted upon indigenous peoples is long and it is in the present not some distant past   

Luckily things are finally  changing and the angry white hate-filled trolls are increasingly a rarity in society and reduced to posting anonymous internet rants  

Indigenous people have been mistreated by this nation, not only the white people within it, but all Canadians ...for more than for over 200 years now. During that time conservative and liberal parties have ruled the nation, and have been given ample time to fix these issues. We have not gone very far in the last 150 or so years, The liberals have been in power for the last 6 years and still have not provided basic drinking water as you pointed out...nor has he solved many of the other issues that plague indigenous people. Does that make us all Racist or just the white people, convenient excuse...Since this nation has every ethic and race from around the globe living within it we all can't be racist can we ? ...and still no ILM movement that has brought this nation to it's senses. So while you say things are going to change  finally they have not even been given the momentum it deserves by anyone really. 

Not to throw gas on the fire, but it is the Liberal government that still has dozens of cases in front of the courts, many of these cases are about reconciliation or would go a long way to solve some of them... the last one having to deal with indigenous children, to which our racist/ liberal eastcanada agrees they should not get a red cent...not counting all of the hundreds land claims... 

But then again this is why we can not discuss anything. we are to busy calling each other names and pointing fingers, and the indigenous people got that weird look on their faces and saying WTF...i bet 100 years from now they are still having the same issues...

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15 hours ago, cougar said:

The law and the courts do not recognize the bullshit you are trying to sell me.

How is anything I said less than 100% factual?

15 hours ago, cougar said:

The point is:

When England was a nation and had laws about land and private property they knew what they were doing according to their own laws was stealing the land and murdering the owners.

Those laws didn't govern other lands beyond their scope.

15 hours ago, cougar said:

And because the law and the courts do not buy your type of bullshit, this is why someone is now apologizing and this is why there is that September 30th.

Canadian courts care almost as little about the law as they do about history. Same as you. They're wrapped in self-righteous moralism and exempt from reality.

 

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18 hours ago, cougar said:

You ask Argus this question.  He was the guy suggesting the first nations came from China.

Again, I am not interested to go back 5,000 years to the beginning of time when people were more or less equal.

I want to go only some 500 years back, when the intelligent white man, came to North America and started shooting first nation people and buffalo alike, for the sport and to take over the land.

 

I think most of human history is a repetition of conquerors and the conquered. It's sad but true and just a part of human nature. I also think it's accurate to point out before the first white man ever set foot in the Americas that it was not exactly peace and harmony among those native tribes.

Warfare In Pre-Columbian North America - Canada.ca

An uncomfortable truth.

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3 hours ago, Argus said:

Those laws didn't govern other lands beyond their scope.

You tell me they were imbeciles who did not know wrong from right?

You needed to go back 15,000 years ago and justify the actions of the settlers with the set of moral values the Neanderthals had?

If these are the values you go by, I can then come to your house and kick you out; lay hands on all your property with impunity.

This is how it goes in history - different tribes and nations fighting over resources (according to your own narrative).

Wow, you are like tar - sticky goo - can't clean my hands of you.

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2 hours ago, ironstone said:

An uncomfortable truth.

What happened is indeed uncomfortable.  This is why many admit to the wrongs and are apologetic.

Not you and Argus of course ; you prefer to line up your values with the Neanderthals.

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40 minutes ago, cougar said:

What happened is indeed uncomfortable.  This is why many admit to the wrongs and are apologetic.

Not you and Argus of course ; you prefer to line up your values with the Neanderthals.

I personally don't feel responsible for past wrongs against indians but it was a dark time in history. It can't be undone and those indians who endured those wrongs will not move on.

Can you share with us exactly what you yourself do to help indians here and now? 

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