myata Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 So delta variant is twice more contagious among non vaccinated in Ontario (if numbers to be trusted) than in the studies in the US. A major discovery? A great scientific breakthrough? A Nobel perhaps? How's nobody noticed? Experts, the world should know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: That comes out to 83.7% not 86%. Now the number of partially vaccinated cases is oddly omitted, but that will only add to the denominator of the formula so that the percentage of vaccinated cases would be lower. I had a quick look, as I see you folks having a math issue. Seems to me the data is not what you think. Look carefully at the percent of cases column, the total indicates AVERAGE. Hope that helps explain discrepancy with your calculation. Statistician, mathematician, magician... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 23 hours ago, blackbird said: Health care workers are in a unique position. They are in close contact with patients all the time. If they are unvaccinated there is a greater chance they will spread Covid to their patients. That was never an issue in the past 18 months, was it. I know it sounds like a sensible idea, but you have to appreciate you don't know how things run inside the clinic. They are not lost souls trying to figure this out, they are experienced professionals who work with infection control every single day. And have done for years and years. They have experience. Point is they know well how to handle that, with the use of correct procedures and PPE. Training is never-ending. But for nurses, medical staff, it is another day on the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 1 hour ago, OftenWrong said: I had a quick look, as I see you folks having a math issue. Seems to me the data is not what you think. Look carefully at the percent of cases column, the total indicates AVERAGE. Hope that helps explain discrepancy with your calculation. Statistician, mathematician, magician... Ah. Well it explains the discrepancy but you can't average that way. You're averaging some rows with far more than others. So the 'average of average' is wrong. The source data would have provided the cells but the conclusion came from whoever made the page - and we still don't know. Ah well. Interesting exercise, though. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Ah. Well it explains the discrepancy but you can't average that way. You're averaging some rows with far more than others. So the 'average of average' is wrong. The source data would have provided the cells but the conclusion came from whoever made the page - and we still don't know. Ah well. Interesting exercise, though. Thanks. I agree, because when you take the average of the percentages you are weighting them all equally, when in fact they are not equal. But the two answers are still close. Maybe a more advanced mathemagician could make a hand-waving argument for why they averaged it this way. Sim Sala Bim... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 3 hours ago, OftenWrong said: That was never an issue in the past 18 months, was it. I know it sounds like a sensible idea, but you have to appreciate you don't know how things run inside the clinic. They are not lost souls trying to figure this out, they are experienced professionals who work with infection control every single day. And have done for years and years. They have experience. Point is they know well how to handle that, with the use of correct procedures and PPE. Training is never-ending. But for nurses, medical staff, it is another day on the job. If they are unvaccinated medical staff, they are not too bright or considerate to begin with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, blackbird said: If they are unvaccinated medical staff, they are not too bright or considerate to begin with. they are in a better position to know what is bright or considerate in a medical context than you Edited September 16, 2021 by Yzermandius19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 5 hours ago, blackbird said: If they are unvaccinated medical staff, they are not too bright or considerate to begin with. I see. All those decades of dedicated work saving lives mean nothing now, because you dont understamd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: I see. All those decades of dedicated work saving lives mean nothing now, because you dont understamd. the whiplash from glorified heroes to cartoonish super villains simply because they don't agree with government mandated segregation based on vaccinated status is staggering the cult of the covid doom are all hyper emotional reactionaries with no sense of logic whatsoever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: the whiplash from glorified heroes to cartoonish super villains simply because they don't agree with government mandated segregation based on vaccinated status is staggering the cult of the covid doom are all hyper emotional reactionaries with no sense of logic whatsoever No shirt, no shoes, no service; no shirt, no shoes, no vaccine, no service. No difference. When I worked in food service, it was mandated that a certain level of cleanliness was maintained to prevent illness; preventing illness is a primary function of public health authorities. People who oppose public health orders or guidelines are hyper-emotional reactionaries with no sense of logic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, dialamah said: No shirt, no shoes, no service; no shirt, no shoes, no vaccine, no service. No difference. that should be up to the business not the government to impose on both customers and businesses who don't care about such things freedom of association > public health silliness Edited September 16, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, dialamah said: People who oppose public health orders or guidelines are hyper-emotional reactionaries with no sense of logic. there is difference between reasonable public health guidelines and orders, and unreasonable public health guidelines and orders vaccine mandates are in the latter camp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: that should be up to the business not the government to impose on both customers and businesses who don't care about such things freedom of association > public health silliness From a 1905 case, in which an individual refuted the government's right to mandate vaccines: "The court ruled that the requirement didn’t violate Jacobsen’s right to liberty or “the inherent right of every freeman to care for his own body and health in such way as to him seems best.” The court added that “[t]here are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members.” " The entire article is here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 The fact that they are driving on confusion and fear as almost exclusive argument should tell any objective observer that it's the only language they trust and possibly, understand. And it cannot be a basis or the rationale for an intelligent conversation. Right there, there's an obvious problem. No, not with people - with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 58 minutes ago, dialamah said: From a 1905 case, in which an individual refuted the government's right to mandate vaccines: "The court ruled that the requirement didn’t violate Jacobsen’s right to liberty or “the inherent right of every freeman to care for his own body and health in such way as to him seems best.” The court added that “[t]here are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members.” " The entire article is here. I don't care what freedom hating Canada considers legal it being legal to infringe on rights doesn't make it a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 9 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: they are in a better position to know what is bright or considerate in a medical context than you To quote the head of the Canadian nursing association "We have nearly half a million nurses in Canada. If only one tenth of one percent are confused or have taken confidence in incorrect/misleading information that's still hundreds of nurses." The organizing nurses of these protests are, I understand, no longer working as nurses, and under investigation and will likely lose their licenses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) Also, what Dialamah is conveniently forgetting to mention is it isn't just about 'your body, my choice' for public health reasons. Some places can and do take your job for not agreeing to be a lab rat in the great, novel "vaccine" experiment. And it isn't just about protecting the unvaccinated from the great unwashed. One more time, until they hear it - you have as great a chance of being infected from vaccinated as the unvaccinated. Also it just becomes more and more obvious that this isn't about protection, it's about control. Study after study and general common sense shows us mask mandates and lockdowns don't work. But they keep doing it. They keep moving the goal posts for more and more jabs. Now they're talking boosters. They want you on a federal registry showing you're willing to comply with more controls. In Australia they're building camps and they'll be demanding ID to use social media. A social credit system will be on the horizon as sure as some states we're able to bring in added election cheats making sure the right party stays in power in America. They did that under the cover of the supposed "pandemic." And did you hear what the Biden regime did yesterday? As Boges knows (because I keep insisting on showing him) Florida has become very successful at using therapeutics to bring down death rate. The Powers that Be and their media have been persistent in their attacks on therapeutics as useless and perhaps dangerous. What's happening in Florida though is making it undeniable that MonoClonal Antibody treatments work. So yesterday the Biden regime announced federal controls. They'll be taking control of the supply of monoclonal antibodies. They use their favorite new word "equity" to explain this new practice but we of the cynical say it's really about who gets to save who with the therapeutic. They attack Ivermectin as "horse medicine" but allow Pfizer to create a pill that uses the same protease inhibitor technology that's made Ivermectin so useful in regions that make it available to the covid infected. Edited September 16, 2021 by Infidel Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Argus said: To quote the head of the Canadian nursing association "We have nearly half a million nurses in Canada. If only one tenth of one percent are confused or have taken confidence in incorrect/misleading information that's still hundreds of nurses." The organizing nurses of these protests are, I understand, no longer working as nurses, and under investigation and will likely lose their licenses. argument ad populum appeal to authority fallacies Edited September 16, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: argument ad populum appeal to authority fallacies If a million scientists believe something does that make it argument ad populum or simply the obvious truth? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Argus said: If a million scientists believe something does that make it argument ad populum or simply the obvious truth? how many people believe something has nothing to do with the truth the truth is the truth regardless of it's popularity there are plenty of truths that are unpopular there are plenty of truths that many experts don't agree with experts aren't arbiters of the truth and neither are the masses science is a process, not a consensus, consensus is not how science works Edited September 16, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 Just now, Argus said: If a million scientists believe something does that make it argument ad populum or simply the obvious truth? Ever heard of Trofim Lysenko or the practice of Lysenkoism in the old Soviet Socialist Republic? Check it out and ask that question again. https://www.wbur.org/news/2017/04/07/cautionary-tale-politics-science-lysenko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 Over the centuries' experience we have learned and (should) know: authoritarians and totalitarians love scare. You can look and see where the scare is, and is coming from. And you can remember what you learned and should know. At least this choice is yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) I just thought of something. Fauci is kind of America's Lysenko. Millions died under the influence of both. Fauci made it hard for Americans to get therapeutics but he also has some blame in the actual creation of the virus, if you ask me. Lysenko is responsible for the starvation deaths of millions so I'm not sure who's worse. Edited September 16, 2021 by Infidel Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 Anybody interested in hearing what an actual nurse who's been working the covid ward has to say? https://rumble.com/vm936v-whistleblower-nurse-destroys-delta-narrative-vaccinated-patients-fill-hospt.html Go ahead, discredit her. I'll give you another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: Anybody interested in hearing what an actual nurse who's been working the covid ward has to say? https://rumble.com/vm936v-whistleblower-nurse-destroys-delta-narrative-vaccinated-patients-fill-hospt.html Go ahead, discredit her. I'll give you another one. the authoritarians only appeal to authority when the authority agrees with their confirmation bias when they don't, only then can they see how it's an obvious logical fallacy obvious hypocrites are obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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