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Enough is enough. Ban protests outside hospitals.


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8 minutes ago, myata said:

This is a matter for a serious, intelligent conversation

That would be nice, wouldn't it?  Some acknowledgement that a life-destroying illness needs to be controlled, so as not to decimate our health care.  Sure, a lot of the ideas that you come up with - being prepared - are great.  However, there is not enough time to  implement them for THIS pandemic.  For the next one, let's hold our government accountable going forward, insist they do what they should going forward so we aren't in this situation again - great idea, I wholeheartedly agree.

But putting that as a solution to THIS pandemic, over and over again, isn't 'intelligent'.  In THIS pandemic, we have to deal with the situation as is, not as we'd wish it or even as it should have been.  

Solutions and a will to keep our health system functioning now, in THIS pandemic is what is needed, not endless complaints about SARS 20 years ago, or even Wuhan a year ago.   Passports and lockdowns and masks are not what anyone agrees with, but they are what we have as tools to control THIS pandemic, today.  

So how about you engage in some intelligent conversation by focusing on the present situation, not the past. 

By the way, for those who think restrictions are the "first step to communism" or whatever, the restrictions in the interior of BC are being lifted, because of the passport.  So, gatherings and family visits stop being on hold - for vaccinated people.  You want to get rid of restrictions - do your part for the safety and wellbeing of our society, not some half-baked idea that your "rights" supersede the rights of everyone else.  

In any case your right to avoid the vaccine exists - you'll just have to bear the consequences - whether it's getting sick, dying or being excluded from certain activities.  You are free to exercise your "right not to get vaccinated", don't complain about the consequences - isn't that the idea?

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13 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You are claiming that Stalin killed more than Hitler did? What history books did you read? Those written by CIA. Far left is murderous too and so are religious extremists and far right as well. Being extreme of any kind is really bad. 

Stalin and Mao killed more than Hitler

those are basic facts

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Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

they don't control the pandemic

they control the people

Really?  What do you suppose happens when there isn't compliance with public health recommendations?  Just take a look at some Southern states for your answer.   Or even at small towns in the interior of BC where, as my brother put it, "We're too rednecked to wear masks".  Those places are among the hardest-hit for this wave of Covid.

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13 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Really?  What do you suppose happens when there isn't compliance with public health recommendations?  Just take a look at some Southern states for your answer.   Or even at small towns in the interior of BC where, as my brother put it, "We're too rednecked to wear masks".  Those places are among the hardest-hit for this wave of Covid.

the southern states are doing fine

and they are free

best of both worlds

the sky didn't fall because of not enough people wore masks or took vaccines, or because they didn’t lockdown or have vaccine passports

public health recommendations are often overrated af, if not outright counterproductive

Edited by Yzermandius19
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46 minutes ago, dialamah said:

That would be nice, wouldn't it?  Some acknowledgement that a life-destroying illness needs to be controlled, so as not to decimate our health care.  Sure, a lot of the ideas that you come up with - being prepared - are great.  However, there is not enough time to  implement them for THIS pandemic. 

Is it said now (2021) or twenty years back (SARS, 2002)? Sure this can go on for- funny- ever, always next time to hold accountable. In place of a grown up intelligent conversation. Nope, zero interest in this old and tired tune.

Who spent two decades and countless taxpayer billions so that our great healthcare ended up in a state that can be easily decimated by a long predicted epidemic? Who sang "not a problem for our great system oops"? And how do they look now,  with please (scratch that) you mask up and march up and down here and there? Is there a mirror around before embarking on great endeavors of holding accountable, always next time though?

Edited by myata
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4 minutes ago, myata said:

Is it said now (2021) or twenty years back (SARS, 2002)? Sure this can go on for- funny- ever, always next time to hold accountable. In place of a grown up intelligent conversation. Nope, zero interest in this old and tired tune.

Those people can't have an intelligent conversation about covid and it's not because they're 'dumb', but because they're victims of rampant fear-mongering by the media. 

The leftist media controls them completely.

DON'T WEAR MASKS, IT WILL KILL YOU. THAT'S THE SCIENCE, IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE! DON'T BLOCK TRAVEL FROM COVID HOTSPOST- IT GOES AGAINST THE SCIENCE! BLOCK TRAVEL FROM HERE, NOT THERE! NOW WEAR MASKS! THE TRAVEL BAN AGAINST CHINA DIDN'T WORK, IT JUST FORCED COVID TO GET HERE VIA EUROPE! HCQ IS SUDDENLY KILLING PEOPLE BUT THE VACCINES WILL BE PERFECTLY SAFE, THAT'S THE SCIENCE! EVERYONE IS DYING - THAT'S SCIENCE! THE VACCINES WILL GIVE US HERD IMMUNITY - WE NEED THEM, BUT WE WON"T FORCE PEOPLE TO GET THEM! OK, THEY DON'T STOP THE SPREAD, BUT INFECTED PEOPE WONT GET SICK - WE STILL NEED THEM! OK, INFECTED VAXZIS MIGHT GET SICK, BUT NOT HOSPITALIZED - WE STILL NEED THEM! OK, SOME VAXZIS DIE, BUT JUST THE OLD & SICK - WE STILL NEED THEM, AND WE MUST FORCE EVERYONE TO GET THEM! THE PROTESTORS AT THE HOSPITALS ARE ALL ANTI-VAXXERS WITH NO KNOWLEDGE! WE WILL NEVER SHOW YOU A HOSPITAL EMPLOYEE WHO DOESN'T WANT THE JAB!

 

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36 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Which disinformation source did you get that info? 

That the vaccinated can spread the Covid, you mean?

I agree with you that The Lancet has spread some disinformation recently about covid. In particular, concerning the origin of the disease and the effectiveness of Hydroxychloroquine however my impression is you leftists generally consider them credible so how about The Lancet:

Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant Among Vaccinated Healthcare Workers, Vietnam

I've heard Jabunists try to discredit the above study on the grounds it was done in Vietnam but they're just racial bigots.

Here's another interesting one:

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-cdc-vaccines-idUSL1N2PB2WH

Now that comes from one of those leftist "fact-checking" sites you guys usually enjoy. If you want to call Reuters a disinformation site I won't challenge you but not only do they repeatedly claim the CDC has studies showing vaccinated are as likely to spread the variant as unvaccinated but they link to other leftist media or as you would call them "disinformation sites," claiming the same thing and claiming there is data to support it.

Quote

Additionally, the CDC released data seen in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) seen here revealing that Delta infection results in high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in both vaccinated and unvaccinated people. The CDC explained that “high viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concerns that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus.”

Now as to whether or not the asymptomatic can spread the disease there are contradictory studies on that one and claims on whether or not the data is credible - from both sides.

I don't know who these guys below are but even if you can find some propagandists like MediaBiasFactCheck to slur them it won't matter. My point is only that there are contradictory studies on the asymptomatic question. Prove that false if you like. Or at least try to without the use of one of your disinformation slur sites:

Over half of COVID-19 cases are spread by asymptomatic carriers, CDC study finds

 

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Now as to the Southern States vs the Northern States I think the best measure of that would be to use the 4 biggest states.

If you judge all the differing factors against each other they pretty much even out by my estimation. North versus South or Left versus Right.

Check it out:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us

The obvious difference ( and leftists, RINOs or CINOs can feel free to stop reading if you're not allowed to know this) would be how the economies have been faring lately. By that measure the 2 largest leftist states (California and New York) are being waxed and wiped off the map recently by the 2 largest Republican states (Texas and Florida.)

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36 minutes ago, myata said:

Is it said now (2021) or twenty years back (SARS, 2002)? Sure this can go on for- funny- ever, always next time to hold accountable. In place of a grown up intelligent conversation. 

Maybe, at some point, you'll figure out that we're dealing with a pandemic, TODAY, not 20 years ago.  Nobody is denying the gov't was completely stupid in not doing more in these 20 years, but your repetition of this, over and over, as if it makes any difference to what we do now to protect as many people as possible from getting sick, does not make for an intelligent, grown up discussion.  

If you want to discuss what we should have learned in the past 20 years, and what we should do in the next 20 years, start a specific thread about it, instead of littering every other thread with your pet peeve.

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20 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Hospital is a place where sick people refuge or seek medical help or a place to rest and recover or for some a place to die at the end. Hospitals are not  places to be surrounded by angry anti-vax protesters who intimidate life-saving health workers or preventing access to their work place or harass them or their sick patients. Even people with below average intelligence will realize that decisions on vaccinations or mandating them are not made at hospitals or by health care workers however, anti-vax protesters have launch their protests outside hospitals past few weeks and another round of protests are planned for today across the country outside hospitals.

This is disgusting and there is no excuse for these kind of cowardly selfish actions against the most vulnerable, weakest, most defenseless sick people and the angels who are trying to help or save them. If you have a beef with vaccine mandates then take it with the place or places where these decisions are made and those places are not the hospitals and decisions are not being made by health care workers.

It is time that politicians find the balls and do the right thing and declare hospitals a safe zone. In other words protest is your right and you have no right to protest outside hospitals and harass health care workers and sick people and block their access to care.

 

19 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

As I said you carry no more credibility on this forum and I documented the evidence in my post above.

You are the one that lacks any credibility here period. You still believe in all of this covid bull chit with no end in sight for you. You cannot be reasoned with at all anymore. IMHO, I believe that you have gone crazy in your covid head and you are lost forever. 

There are so many doctors and nurses out there that are trying to tell fools like you the dangers of anyone taking any of those dangerous experimental covid vaccines. And they should know this as a fact because they are the ones working with patients who have taken their covid vaccine jabs and are the ones that are mostly entering into hospitals in seriously ill conditions. But your love and belief for the lying and fake Canadian media that you believe and trust in are telling you the gawds truth about covid. 

Just remember that there is no real and honest true media left in Canada anymore because they all have been pretty much bought off and paid for by your dear comrade hero Castro Trudeau. We can thank our lucky stars that we have alternative media websites like Rebel News and so many others out there that truly do give us the other side of the story that the liars in the Canadian bought off and paid for MSM do not want anyone to know or hear about. Only buffoons and idiots listen to the Canadian MSM today. Sadly, Canada has still plenty of those buffoons around. 

I was born free. I will live free. I will die free. There will be no vaccination jabs in my life. That should be my choice to take it or leave it. It's not for our lying and crummy comrade politicians to dictate to me that I must take their covid jabs or lose all of my rights and freedoms that I once had just two years ago in Canada.  

I say that there should be more demonstrations in front of all of our hospitals to try and let the people know that if they keep taking these experimental vaccine drugs that they will eventually end up becoming very sick or may die. Let the demonstrations begin. Works for me. ?

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2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Maybe, at some point, you'll figure out that we're dealing with a pandemic, TODAY, not 20 years ago.  Nobody is denying the gov't was completely stupid in not doing more in these 20 years, but your repetition of this, over and over,

Seriously, this is how it works in your book? Someone has done something entirely stupid (your word); they remain in the position of authority without any oversight or accountability; they are free to do whatever they like. And they are expected to do something better this time around, because the accountability starts with the next? Why would they do anything better in this picture? Where is the logic in this?

And surely here's what was done (incomplete list above). How can you prove that masking worked, not as a tool in specific situation when necessary and justified, but as a universal panacea, if waves two and three reached all-time highs with full masking in place? How do you know that anything you say makes sense or works in this picture when the conversation is only with yourself, and any fault or failure can be dismissed with ok it was yesterday but we're now so let's just begin all over again.

 

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1 hour ago, taxme said:

You are the one that lacks any credibility here period. You still believe in all of this covid bull chit with no end in sight for you. You cannot be reasoned with at all anymore. IMHO, I believe that you have gone crazy in your covid head and you are lost forever. 

Jut watch 1 hour of the news taxme and you'll see why people are so indoctrinated. The news goes from scare tactics to fake science to anecdotes to fear mongering to anti-vax-monster bashing to covid heroes to fake corroboration and back to scare tactics. That's literally the whole news cycle. 

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5 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the vaccinated still get sick and still transmit the disease

that's what the science says

if the vaccinated couldn't get covid, the unvaccinated wouldn't be putting them at risk

so either they pose no risk to vaccinated or the vaccinated pose more risk to unvaccinated than the other way around

either way, vaccine mandates are anti-science and pro-control

Let's look at reality:

Vaccinated:

  • Can still transmit COVID19, although at a much lower rate.
  • Due to being vaccinated, the symptoms are much lower, if they get COVID19, and that reduces the chance of going to the hospital and occupy nurses and doctor's time, cost the tax payers money and take away beds from sick people who have no control over being sick.

Unvaccinated:

  • Can transmit COVID19 at a higher rate than those who are vaccinated
  • Will occupy hospitals 90% more than vaccinated people
  • Will cost taxpayers money
  • Will unnecessarily take away beds and services for those who need to be treated
  • Will put doctors and nurses under stress

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, canadian.rocky said:

But I do care that they are taking away beds and costing me, as a taxpayer, money, by going to the hospital. 

Would the same logic apply to any of your friends and/or relatives who smoked regularly or led unhealthy lifestyle? Why shouldn't it if they are taking the beds I'm paying for as a taxpayer?

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6 minutes ago, myata said:

Would the same logic apply to any of your friends and/or relatives who smoked regularly or led unhealthy lifestyle? Why shouldn't it if they are taking the beds I'm paying for as a taxpayer?

Because people can't be vaccinated against smoking, diabetes, heart disease etc.  A vaccination is a low-risk, easy and effective way of staying out of the hospital.

In addition, people with lifestyle illnesses use hospital beds at a predictable and steady rate.  A disease like Covid happens fast to a lot of people all at once; it is not predictable - as has been demonstrated more than once in the last 18 months.  So our medical system get overwhelmed.

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1 hour ago, canadian.rocky said:

Where is the real science?

In books. 

At the beginning of covid it was racist to even consider that the virus came from the BSL4 lab right at ground zero, and that set the tone for the whole program. 

The NEJoM and Lancet got busted printing fake science, the WHO was able to quickly determine that it was safe for planeloads of people to leave from Wuhan to land all over the rest of the planet even though the Chinese gov't wasn't allowing them to move throughout their own country, HCQ suddenly started killing people and turning them blind after laying dormant for 60 years, the mainstream media replaced the FDA as the official source of whether or not a vaccine was safe, anecdotes replaced large sample sizes as the new 'data', and the science - which always seems to start out looking extremely counter-intuitive - miraculously changes 180 degrees if you wait long enough.

Now ya know. 

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3 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Define much and prove it. Otherwise you're just guessing and implying.

It's in the literature for reported cases 4.5 times lower, including unreported and non symptomatic has to be (much?) less. Note that vaccinated population by now is several times if not a full order of magnitude greater than non vaccinated.

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