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Hypocrisy of "My Body, My Choice!"


betsy

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10 hours ago, betsy said:

The PPC is gaining, however it is gaining slowly.  It wouldn't reach the kind of numbers that it will need to become the opposition in this election  - and, it will take a miracle for it to win a majority.  That is a fact.

To vote for the PPC is playing right  into the hands of Trudeau.   That's what the Liberals are hoping for:  to have conservative votes split up between CPC and PPC.

You have a track record of your disdain for Trudeau over the years you've been posting here.  However, it seems now, you  prefer Trudeau over O'Toole.  Those two are the only two choices in this election.  I think you're smart enough to understand that.

But......... what I get from you is that you'd rather have Trudeau as the PM with a minority rather than see him unseated and replaced by O'Toole. 

 

Am I right?

 

The PPC must be doing well because most political meetings going on around the country with all of the candidates from all of the different political party's are all trying to keep the PPC from attending those political meetings. They are all running scared as hell that the PPC could win the election. 

I will certainly not waste my vote on voting for any of those other communist party's. I will be placing my tick next to the PPC candidates name. We have to start somewhere. 

I only want to see Fidel Trudeau arrested and charged with crimes against humanity. Fidel can take his seat in some gulag somewhere. Works for me. ?

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On 9/4/2021 at 1:13 AM, Scott Mayers said:

You favor killing fully grown human beings that have built a 'resume' in life that establishes their worth but favor the infantile as though it has more virtue and worth? Unless YOU can prove that you remember even your birth, I'd suggest you recognize that you cannot confirm that there is anything meaningful to a new born, let alone some zygote or embryo.

ALL living beings have to LEARN to feel, not simply facts like whether one plus one equals two. As such, even a newborn lacks full meaning of their emotions, including the sensations of pain or pleasure. They are reactive genetically to behave in ways that we later interpret as having meaning. For instance, a baby cries when it is born by the fact it is needed to clear the lungs. That is, the baby isn't crying because it is sad or uncomfortable untill it later reassigns HOW adults react to it in ways that mean 'cry when sad or in pain'.

 

Is this one of those ideas based in science, if you can not remember your birth, proves that a new born is not human or worthy of life...You claim a new born does not fell pain or pleasure, i call bullshit, in fact I'm not even sure how you can make a such a claim, and because we don't remember our birth is not a valid reason....I also don't remember a few nights out on the town but that does not mean none of it happened.. In fact others have begged to differ... Have you asked a doctor why they slap a babies bottom once delivered, and why they cry.. , why do they cry when you accidental hurt them. if they don't feel pain or hunger, or anything as you suggest.. of course the baby knows it has to clear it's lungs for some reason...  natural extinct maybe, i guess it would be to much of a jump if it also felt pain, or could feel pleasure ...I guess you have never seen a baby smile or being content, perhaps it is my imagination.. or perhaps it makes you sleep better knowing that these babies are nothing more than skin, bone and water that feel nothing when they are extinguished.

 

Quote

Babies do NOT suffer pain when aborted and are NOT valid beings UNTIL they develop in time among us. 

How would we know , no one has survived the procedure, and later recalled the event according to you, not remembering it validates everything...I'd be interested in reading some of the sources that have been proven by science... I assume a smart guy like yourself knows how they abort a fetus. there are several doctors who have performed thousands of abortions and they have said the procedure is barbaric, and they have changed their mind about the whole abortion issue... a strong vacuum tube is used to rip the fetus apart piece by piece. Hard to hear any screams under fluid, hard to see facial expressions or body spasms when there are no cameras in there to record anything...and yet some how you want us to believe they don't feel shit because they have not been alive long enough outside the mother.

Hitler said the same things about the Jews, Soviets, blacks, basically any non white race, or anyone that did not see things his way..... they were sub human not valid beings. And maybe your right maybe they are just a sack of skin and bones, until they have learned to be human over time according to you, but if your wrong we have been killing fetuses because they have become nothing more than inconvenient, to the mom i mean it is her body she can kill what ever is in side of it on her whim.. In which we have lined them up and slaughtered them all day and into the night....  Just one question though I'm considered a killer because of my job and beliefs, what should we call those people that are alright with the killing of unborn babies up until the medical world calls them viable all because they are inconvenient. And would it make a difference if they did fell pain in the womb.

 .... and some how we have drawn a line in the sand, once the fetus becomes a baby then some miracle happens and it becomes a human "no Killing them" and using one of your phases why would we care it is not our business...But somehow I don't think the law works that way... unless it is in a body and is dependent on it's mother for survival... then it's OK...because of a whim, or it is inconvenient at the time, because they were to stupid to wrap it in rubber, or they have not finished school yet, can't afford it, lots of reasons most based on personal inconvenience.  

In 2019 83,000 were reported...Abortion Statistics in Canada (arcc-cdac.ca)

who knows how many unreported, or done outside of Canada.. I understand there has to be rules for everything, like rape, for medical reasons, the fetus is not viable or has medical complications...but because it is inconvenient at the time...is not a valid reason...

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On 9/1/2021 at 2:35 AM, betsy said:

Whether you agree or not, the fact is that vaccines can cause serious side-effects to some people.   It's understandable for some people to be wary, and distrustful of it.....especially when it is acknowledged that there can be some serious damage. 

Why are people being forced to put chemicals into their own body?

 

To say that they endanger others, is not good enough an excuse to be AUTHORITARIAN with this mandate.

  It is the responsibility of each and everyone of us to be responsible for our own selves.  You protect yourself the way you see fit!  You have that right!  However - your right doesn't extend to stepping on someones else's  right. 

 

There are other ways that can be given as alternatives without having to eliminate choices!  Rapid testing before anyone can come in could be among them.  Using masks or ppe can be an additional implementation for protection.

So - why are the Liberals and NDP being so adamant that it's .......................either this, or the highway? 

 

We have to consider the ideology of these two parties.   The NDP is admittedly a socialist party (therefore, no surprise there).  And, Trudeau has been vocally appreciative of Communist regimes like China (therefore, no surprise there either)!  The Liberal Party - just like the Democrats in the USA - isn't the same Liberal Party that your parents had supported years ago.  The Liberal Party is now far left-leaning.  We have to acknowledge that.

 

Fear of this virus, is real to so many people.   Fear....................................... that can be EXPLOITED!

 

ARE WE BEING GROOMED TO BE OPEN TO............................. AND, ACCEPT AN AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT?

They're trying to use the same fear tactics in Canada that were used on conservatives in the USA.   In case anyone hasn't noticed, America is heading towards 3rd world status in a big hurry.   The right wing think tank Freedom House has them ranked 65th in the world in personal freedom, and that's before the Jim Crow laws flooding the country are considered.  I wouldn't be surprised to see America drop out of the 100 freest countries in the world.   In the last election we watched as almost 1/3 of American told the world they were willing to give up their freedom to be protected by a strongman dictator.

Let's not let that happen to Canada.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Galloway said:

They're trying to use the same fear tactics in Canada that were used on conservatives in the USA.   In case anyone hasn't noticed, America is heading towards 3rd world status in a big hurry.   The right wing think tank Freedom House has them ranked 65th in the world in personal freedom, and that's before the Jim Crow laws flooding the country are considered.  I wouldn't be surprised to see America drop out of the 100 freest countries in the world.   In the last election we watched as almost 1/3 of American told the world they were willing to give up their freedom to be protected by a strongman dictator.

Let's not let that happen to Canada.

 

 

I'm afraid to look at the latest poll.

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On 9/5/2021 at 5:36 PM, Army Guy said:
On 9/3/2021 at 10:13 PM, Scott Mayers said:

You favor killing fully grown human beings that have built a 'resume' in life that establishes their worth but favor the infantile as though it has more virtue and worth? Unless YOU can prove that you remember even your birth, I'd suggest you recognize that you cannot confirm that there is anything meaningful to a new born, let alone some zygote or embryo.

ALL living beings have to LEARN to feel, not simply facts like whether one plus one equals two. As such, even a newborn lacks full meaning of their emotions, including the sensations of pain or pleasure. They are reactive genetically to behave in ways that we later interpret as having meaning. For instance, a baby cries when it is born by the fact it is needed to clear the lungs. That is, the baby isn't crying because it is sad or uncomfortable untill it later reassigns HOW adults react to it in ways that mean 'cry when sad or in pain'.

 

Expand  

Is this one of those ideas based in science, if you can not remember your birth, proves that a new born is not human or worthy of life...You claim a new born does not fell pain or pleasure, i call bullshit, in fact I'm not even sure how you can make a such a claim, and because we don't remember our birth is not a valid reason....I also don't remember a few nights out on the town but that does not mean none of it happened.. In fact others have begged to differ... Have you asked a doctor why they slap a babies bottom once delivered, and why they cry.. , why do they cry when you accidental hurt them. if they don't feel pain or hunger, or anything as you suggest.. of course the baby knows it has to clear it's lungs for some reason...  natural extinct maybe, i guess it would be to much of a jump if it also felt pain, or could feel pleasure ...I guess you have never seen a baby smile or being content, perhaps it is my imagination.. or perhaps it makes you sleep better knowing that these babies are nothing more than skin, bone and water that feel nothing when they are extinguished.

Given my argument to Betty on her religiosity AND that you now gave support for her, here is the argument:

(1) You (and Betty) [or the general Conservative] believe that you SHOULD have a right to IMPOSE your choice onto other people's freedom to have an abortion

(2) Yet you believe that the non-Conservative SHOULD NOT have a right to IMPOSE upon others to wear masks AND/OR take the vaccine

(Conclusion): Conservatives SHOULD have a special biased privilege to 'free choice'.

 

An extended logical argument here is about the DEGREE to which expected impositions SHOULD be taken into account. So compare the degree of:

(1) ...one IMPOSING masks that are used to protect OTHERS' potential of getting a virus that KILLS.

(2) ...one  IMPOSING a vaccine that is used to protect ONESELF and OTHERS from permitting evolution of a virus' ability to learn how to defeat the vaccine. 

OR

(3) ...one IMPOSING upon OTHERS their right to remove a part of one's OWN BODY that, should a law require they KEEP the child regardless of the harm of the parent's inevitability to be both burdened against their choice to have to pay for the cost of raising the child regardless of her maturity and to the imposition upon the unborn child to have to be FORCED into a life with an inherent DEBT they must overcome in order to succeed. [Adopting parents often interpret adoptees as charity cases who are seen as 'pets' relative to their own biological children.]

[Conclusion]: The degree of freedom imposed upon the non-Conservative uniquely BY Conservatives is absurdly extreme. It is thus HYPOCRITICAL to demand 'free choice' for oneself on even the remotest TRIVIALITY while expecting OTHERS' to be denied their 'free choice' on the most SIGNIFICANT violation of one's right to their own body. 

 

 

(Supporting additional argument via religious freedom?

The argument that you are responding to above can be considered my own 'religion' should you disagree. If you have a right to declare supremacy of nature's favor towards yourself without provability [as 'religious freedom' implies], I don't think you stand any grounds to argue against those of us who might argue that a being that is yet to be born is conscious of the same degree of suffering of those whom we all AGREE is "alive" and can "suffer". That is, we both can agree that a life of one who IS born should not be killed and thus 'AGREE'; But we disagree about whether a being unborn is equivalent to being a 'person'. I don't IMPOSE upon those who choose NOT to abort to abort. YOU choose to impose upon others, whose welfare you could care less about regardless, to OBEY YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEF IN AN "ESSENCE" or "SOUL" that enters us upon conception. This last argument, like the one I challenged Betty, is ONLY an extended argument about 'freedom' that you may also agree: the 'freedom of religion', ....also a personal free choice. Which of our competing choices is superior with regards to competing beliefs where one contradicts the other?

 

 

AS to the Hitler addition in your own odd comparison, National Socialism is a RIGHT-WING extreme where Communism is a LEFT-WING extreme. With respect to my above arguments, the Conservative is more fittings with Hitler's ideals, given you expect YOUR right to 'freedom' to be respected ABSOLUTELY for some particular INDIVIDUAL over all others. [No one is saying you cannot take your mask off or refuse the vaccine in YOUR 'own' private spaces....only in places we are required to SHARE equally, for instance.] Communism's form of abusives comes about due to the nature of reducing 'freedom' to the LEAST COMMON DENOMINATOR of ALL citizens at the expense of the rouge individual view, regardless of value.  Even that extreme  can be anti-abortion. So note that most fiscal support to the LEFT comes from SEGREGATE Multi-Conservatives and so are not necessarily "liberal" (and what the underlying cause of those 'leaders' who steal the power as a Conservative dictator under the label of 'communism' derives from.)

 

[Thank you for taking the vaccine, btw.]

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On 9/4/2021 at 1:56 AM, betsy said:

Applying the principle  of TRIAGE -

who do I prefer to live? To support?   A full grown proven moron without any conscience, who wastes our resources, may I add........ or, an unborn with all the possible potentials! 

Well - YEAH!

Furthermore - it's not like as if we're the ones actually killing the moron (like what we do with the unborn, by giving license for his murder)!  

The moron still gets to keep her choice!

So, that's a no-brainer!  ?

 

 

Read my response to Army Guy as it is based upon your argument that he's supporting. As to my argument about the value of the unborn versus a fully grown person is about the degree to which one has conscious experience. I'm not 'for' killing babies; I am arguing that the act of respecting a mother's unborn versus the mother is itself naive, ...like how we tend to favor puppies or kittens but as soon as they appear 'mature' and grown up, they are dismissed as irrelevant. It is an EMOTIONAL response you are having with respect to abortion because you BELIEVE the conceived being is an 'innocent' sufferer who lacks the power to protect some VALUE of LIFE that they COULD hold. You assume the 'virtue' of the contested determination of some 'soul' that might suffer should be granted predecedence when I interpret your emotions as disrespecting the POST-baby that the mother represents as a non-aborted mature adult. 

I get and agree to the disappointment of those who might use abortion as a mechanism for chosing NOT to use contraceptives. But most conservatives are also anti-contraceptive (like Catholic conservatives) which demonstrates that the anti-abortion lobby is about some religious belief that you are imposing upon other's freedoms. I hold to the "liberal" ideal: "to have as much freedom so long as it doesn't affect the freedom of others." While the question of whether an unborn child is a soul that exists in equal value to others alive, the mothers ARE actually AGREED with certainty among both of us that these mothers ARE alive. If you want to challenge this argument without religion, you'd require accepting and using science to determine whether an unborn child is both alive and somehow worth MORE than the mother's life.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/9/2021 at 7:53 PM, Scott Mayers said:

Given my argument to Betty on her religiosity AND that you now gave support for her, here is the argument:

(1) You (and Betty) [or the general Conservative] believe that you SHOULD have a right to IMPOSE your choice onto other people's freedom to have an abortion

(2) Yet you believe that the non-Conservative SHOULD NOT have a right to IMPOSE upon others to wear masks AND/OR take the vaccine

(Conclusion): Conservatives SHOULD have a special biased privilege to 'free choice'.

 

An extended logical argument here is about the DEGREE to which expected impositions SHOULD be taken into account. So compare the degree of:

(1) ...one IMPOSING masks that are used to protect OTHERS' potential of getting a virus that KILLS.

(2) ...one  IMPOSING a vaccine that is used to protect ONESELF and OTHERS from permitting evolution of a virus' ability to learn how to defeat the vaccine. 

OR

(3) ...one IMPOSING upon OTHERS their right to remove a part of one's OWN BODY that, should a law require they KEEP the child regardless of the harm of the parent's inevitability to be both burdened against their choice to have to pay for the cost of raising the child regardless of her maturity and to the imposition upon the unborn child to have to be FORCED into a life with an inherent DEBT they must overcome in order to succeed. [Adopting parents often interpret adoptees as charity cases who are seen as 'pets' relative to their own biological children.]

[Conclusion]: The degree of freedom imposed upon the non-Conservative uniquely BY Conservatives is absurdly extreme. It is thus HYPOCRITICAL to demand 'free choice' for oneself on even the remotest TRIVIALITY while expecting OTHERS' to be denied their 'free choice' on the most SIGNIFICANT violation of one's right to their own body. 

 

 

(Supporting additional argument via religious freedom?

The argument that you are responding to above can be considered my own 'religion' should you disagree. If you have a right to declare supremacy of nature's favor towards yourself without provability [as 'religious freedom' implies], I don't think you stand any grounds to argue against those of us who might argue that a being that is yet to be born is conscious of the same degree of suffering of those whom we all AGREE is "alive" and can "suffer". That is, we both can agree that a life of one who IS born should not be killed and thus 'AGREE'; But we disagree about whether a being unborn is equivalent to being a 'person'. I don't IMPOSE upon those who choose NOT to abort to abort. YOU choose to impose upon others, whose welfare you could care less about regardless, to OBEY YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEF IN AN "ESSENCE" or "SOUL" that enters us upon conception. This last argument, like the one I challenged Betty, is ONLY an extended argument about 'freedom' that you may also agree: the 'freedom of religion', ....also a personal free choice. Which of our competing choices is superior with regards to competing beliefs where one contradicts the other?

 

 

AS to the Hitler addition in your own odd comparison, National Socialism is a RIGHT-WING extreme where Communism is a LEFT-WING extreme. With respect to my above arguments, the Conservative is more fittings with Hitler's ideals, given you expect YOUR right to 'freedom' to be respected ABSOLUTELY for some particular INDIVIDUAL over all others. [No one is saying you cannot take your mask off or refuse the vaccine in YOUR 'own' private spaces....only in places we are required to SHARE equally, for instance.] Communism's form of abusives comes about due to the nature of reducing 'freedom' to the LEAST COMMON DENOMINATOR of ALL citizens at the expense of the rouge individual view, regardless of value.  Even that extreme  can be anti-abortion. So note that most fiscal support to the LEFT comes from SEGREGATE Multi-Conservatives and so are not necessarily "liberal" (and what the underlying cause of those 'leaders' who steal the power as a Conservative dictator under the label of 'communism' derives from.)

 

[Thank you for taking the vaccine, btw.]

1.  If you think that JUST the Conservative party wants to force choices on tax payers your dead wrong, look at the liberals new gun legislation, how they banned most paintball, and airsoft toys, shut down several industries. NDP wants the rich to be taxed heavily, these are forced choices....everyone makes them. I think everyone "all Canadians" should have a choice to get vaccinated or not, and i have said as with any choice there are consequences' to each  choice we make...

In my opinion , there are very limited reasons to get an abortion, 1. rape, incest etc...2. medical reasons ie women's life is in jeopardy. 3. both are adults , abortion is for convenience, accident, to lazy to use pills/ condoms or patch's 4. to young to know better, not educated about children or sex. Yes some reasons are very acceptable, but most of all abortions are done because having a baby is inconvenient at the moment or to lazy to use contraceptives...I do not agree anyone should be able to throw away a life just for convenience. As there are other options available, like adoption...thousands of Canadians wait on long lists to have an adopted baby. 

2.. Why is it that most Vaccines take years and years to get approved and researched, and some how all these vaccines got produced in recorded time... How many vaccines are out there that were rushed and had severe side effects, like mefloquine force feed to our troops for years with very little research done... and now decades latter the government pays of services persons to stay quite about it because of the damage done to a lot of soldiers..SO yes i think everyone should have a choice... and thats not a conservative position it's based on concern.

3. Adoption takes all of your nightmares away does it not, all the mother has to do is carry it to term...and some happy couple with the means to afford having children will raise it to an adult...as for the rest of your para give us a source that proves adoptive parents care for their children more than an adopted one... I ask because my sister is adopted. And she seem to turned out to be a productive person with a loving family...

How far do you take this choice of yours, when the children are 5 or 10 and become a burden should we have the chioce to take them into the woods and terminate them... You have yet to provide any sources that state as a fact that these fetuses' fell no pain, or joy, or anything nothing more than a sack of tissues... I'm not a very religious man, but i have prayed to god while deployed over seas, to save close friends and even myself at times...But this is about morals and values , and how we as a nation have decided that any life can be terminated because of pure laziness, or inconvenience. To be given no more consideration than taking the family pet to the vet because it's a pain in the ass, or is to much work.

If you like i can give you the video of a abortion doctor describing the procedure in detail, and aborting babies near term because the mother changed their minds... then you judge if it is right or wrong...

I know your grasping at things once your comparing conservatives to Nazi's. 

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