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Hypocrisy of "My Body, My Choice!"


betsy

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10 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

There are always limits to the rights in any democracy. Individual rights end when it infringes on other people's rights and safety. You have the right to listen to loud music at home anytime? Not so neighbors will call the police on you. You have the right to drink and drive? Not so you will be arrested for endangering other people's lives. You are allowed to smoke in public places. Not so anymore as it was proven it causes health problem for others

refusing to vaccine and going to public places is one clear case of that. By refusing to vaccine you are 22 times more susceptible to infection. That is allowing virus to enter and mutate in your body or transfer it to others. Hence you endanger other people who some may die as a results when you leave your home and go to public places like grocery.

 

 

 

,l;b dfs\

14 hours ago, betsy said:

Whether you agree or not, the fact is that vaccines can cause serious side-effects to some people.   It's understandable for some people to be wary, and distrustful of it.....especially when it is acknowledged that there can be some serious damage. 

Why are people being forced to put chemicals into their own body?

 

To say that they endanger others, is not good enough an excuse to be AUTHORITARIAN with this mandate.

  It is the responsibility of each and everyone of us to be responsible for our own selves.  You protect yourself the way you see fit!  You have that right!  However - your right doesn't extend to stepping on someones else's  right. 

 

There are other ways that can be given as alternatives without having to eliminate choices!  Rapid testing before anyone can come in could be among them.  Using masks or ppe can be an additional implementation for protection.

So - why are the Liberals and NDP being so adamant that it's .......................either this, or the highway? 

 

We have to consider the ideology of these two parties.   The NDP is admittedly a socialist party (therefore, no surprise there).  And, Trudeau has been vocally appreciative of Communist regimes like China (therefore, no surprise there either)!  The Liberal Party - just like the Democrats in the USA - isn't the same Liberal Party that your parents had supported years ago.  The Liberal Party is now far left-leaning.  We have to acknowledge that.

 

Fear of this virus, is real to so many people.   Fear....................................... that can be EXPLOITED!

 

ARE WE BEING GROOMED TO BE OPEN TO............................. AND, ACCEPT AN AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT?

It's all just plain covid bull crap. Sadly, there are way too many people who can be easily convinced enough that they are going to die if they do not listen to their dear leaders and the media and do as they say, and allow themselves be driven into a state of fear and panic over nothing by those two lying machines mentioned above. The people needs to start asking questions for a change and stop just accepting whatever their lying politicians or the lying media keeps telling them all the time. They need to do their own research which of course the majority will not do. They will just want to go along to get along and because of that we are finding ourselves in a mess that we should never allowed ourselves to get into. If people would just stop going along with those liars this would all end tomorrow. Covid would be gone forever. ?

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14 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Obviously

and in Canada, every major party openly supports this

see Doug Ford and his vaccine passports

Jim Crow laws are back

and the vast majority of Canadians applaud it

Doug Ford, is no Rob Ford, who has now shown himself to be a liar. It was not too long ago that he said that he was not in favor of bringing in mandatory vaccine passports. Well voila, the vaccine passports are here. Our politicians already know that the people are way too stupid nor do they care as to what we say and will never ask any questions. We just tell them lies and they will believe us. It's bloody sad that after all of these past centuries the people have still not learned as to how politics really works. The people still go along with the bullshit and lies that their politicians feed them every day.

Sadly, it looks like this will go on for centuries to come. It's the people that is the problem, and not the politicians. Politicians just take advantage of the dummy people who keep allowing their politicians to make asses of them every day. 

I do not understand as to why so many people complain about what politicians say and do but yet do nothing about it. Simply amazing. ?

Edited by taxme
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25 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Wow, my first thoughts after reading all that was " this guy must have just smoked a shit tonne of crack" , then i thought it sure sounds like some twisted Liberal or leftist with an axe to grind, upset over the latest release of the polls or maybe both, a leftist higher than shit trying to speech write for Justin.  I say leftist because of the way you wrote it, I"M left your wrong STFU. 

Lets not forget all the medical advice you have given out tonight, i am assuming your a PHD or some one that works in the field, with all the you have nothing to worry about it's all in your evil little head, some conspiracy that the right composed just for this occasion... we will paint the entire right with the same paint brush looneys with an over active imagination. But wait a minute are we suppose to bow down in front of your superior intellect and believe every word that comes from your god like mouth...No i don't think so...In fact vaccine's are not as benign as you paint them to be...in fact they can be deadly to a small percentage of people, what and who is this in this percentage no one knows....just bend over this will be over in a minute.... Have to excuse my Conservative friends if they don't trust anything that comes from the left side of the house...we have been bent over a lot this last 6 years and well my anus has grown to be quite large, for being screwed by the so call left... 

Vaccine Side Effects and Adverse Events | History of Vaccines

There is a list of side effects from most vaccines, not all of them are just a little soreness, or tender around the injection site, some of them are deadly... Is this your source of a conspiracy, would you swear on your life that this is not going to happen to anyone...shit no, leftist are not normally that brave...I'm not advocating NOT to get a shot, I'm saying it is a choice that has consequences such as loss of rights or travel or further restrictions. But it is a choice, you don't have to like it. 

Thanks for the drug induced speech though.

You know that your love of army tells me that you are likely a Junior ranker who is praised most for NOT being able to think for themselves, right? You know that ALL military training for soldiers for ALL different types of government ideals is IDENTICAL and for those who LOVE it are so stupid not to notice that the actual 'sacrifice' you serve is BASED UPON YOUR LACK OF INTELLECT because it is required for to BE mindless subserviant and obediant!!  [I'm both prior National Defence and a brat and never get those braggerts of 'army' who represent best the pride of a Nazi. (?)! ] 

You skipped the points I made about how the 'conservative' is MORE AUTHORITARIAN. Your OWN arrogant love of military, for instance, IS AUTHORITARIANISM. All soldiers in all political philosophies who LOVE their job LOVE the lifestyle of a military dictatorships in principle. So before you continue your own rant about 'freedom' of choice, perhaps you need to respect WHAT it is you are serving so blindly  before you judge others. 

 

The 'liberal' concept is "give people the most individual freedoms possible WITHOUT INFRINGING UPON THE SAME FREEDOMS OF OTHERS TO THE SAME!" Note too that 'liberal' is French for 'freedom'. The 'conservative' concept refers to those who HAVE SOME FORTUNE they are afraid of losing. Thus you want whatever system that is working specifically FOR YOU (regardless of your actual belief about what is right or wrong for all others). And given the capitalist extreme is to believe one has some religious 'right' to the non-limited power of "OWNership" of the world without a people's democratic means to challenge, you represent the MOST AUTHORITARIAN threat of any ideal. 

You idiots are whinning about taking taking medical precautions that affects everyone when you actually have ZERO compassion for everyone (the demos) with a specific desire to RULE over others by what is entailed by 'ownership'. That is, you think nothing of demanding people born on this Earth who have no 'ownership' to PAY THE RENT you demand regardless of their 'freedom' or choice. You think it is alright that if you have the mere LUCK of being born with some daddy who inherits to you fortune PRIOR to you earning it and then WANT no interference of a society to put on any BRAKES of your own argued fear of the masses to 'OWN' this power. 

If ONE person can have some 'right' to dictate what they want for themselves with the included 'right' to NOT be infringed upon, so can the COLLECTIVE of such individuals we call 'democratic'. The collective majority recognizes that taking the vaccine and wearing masks IS the 'FREE CHOICE' right they have. It is impossible for ANY ideal to make ALL people have the same identical 'freedoms'. 

 

And if you think that your 'rights' should be honored without limits, then I propose the no one should OWN anything beyond their OWN independent power they can carry with them. "Ownership" of anything beyond your body is THEFT of other people's FREEDOM over such 'property'. And so, perhaps, to assure people's freedom, all people should deny paying any rent because we are all born on this earth without a choice and are SLAVES in a worse position than to whether some spoiled brats are crying foul because they are being TORTURED for having to wear a mask or take precautionary 'pill'. You don't see the poor suckers of this world who LACK even the 'right' to have these precautions as we do. What about their 'freedoms'? 

These measures are TEMPORARY also. 

And, back to you as an 'Army Guy', what 'freedom' do you enhance by having the power to take other people's lives AGAINST their wills, regardless of anyone respecting their 'free' choices and decisions?  

 

I take the vaccine regardless of the possible threat because IF some conspiratorial body exists who is powerful enough to harm me, they WILL HARM me regardless. But I have more to fear by the Conservative who would INDEPENDENTLY act as the animals we are where NO limits against YOUR 'freedoms' are demanded while I am expected to be a happy slave under the pretense of something 'virtuous' should you be my LORD! [owners alone own the 'freedom' to dictate what is 'free' and what is not'] There are WAY more freedom violations done by the conservative IN PRINCIPLE. If you believe in a governing system with no rule (beyond your own special privilege to rule over others through 'ownership') I challenge you to apply for those reality programs on survival, like, "Alone". Then you could prove whether you have 'freedom' apart from democratic conventions that require we ALL require sacrificing something.

Do us all a sacrificial offering of good will by taking the vaccine and wear masks. That's the least you can do to prove you're a friend of other Earthlings equally. And if it kills you, so be it.....I mean, you Conservatives are the super religious of all political systems. Do you not believe in your God's power enough to NOT protect you? And if you die at the hands of something 'evil', you should be confident that your God would 'fix' things by compensating for your loss in Heaven.

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1 hour ago, Scott Mayers said:

You know that your love of army tells me that you are likely a Junior ranker who is praised most for NOT being able to think for themselves, right? You know that ALL military training for soldiers for ALL different types of government ideals is IDENTICAL and for those who LOVE it are so stupid not to notice that the actual 'sacrifice' you serve is BASED UPON YOUR LACK OF INTELLECT because it is required for to BE mindless subserviant and obediant!!  [I'm both prior National Defence and a brat and never get those braggerts of 'army' who represent best the pride of a Nazi. (?)! ] 

Wow, I guess I'm suppose to do what now ? Tell you you've changed my mind i think you have enlightened me to the point i have rediscovered the meaning of life. Sorry, I still think your a drug induced lefty loser who for some reason feels the need to judge everyone and anything that does not fit into your leftist views. Like my choice of forum name it has somehow triggered you so much that your writing half a book of drug induced rage...

I highly doubt you have any military experience or if you had served you did not last very long, maybe some officer cadet with mommy issues, and now hold some grudge because some army guy stole your girl friend, while at a university frat party... Sorry to disappoint but I've met smarter goat herders over in Afghanistan, but then again who am I to judge your nobility... 

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You skipped the points I made about how the 'conservative' is MORE AUTHORITARIAN. Your OWN arrogant love of military, for instance, IS AUTHORITARIANISM. All soldiers in all political philosophies who LOVE their job LOVE the lifestyle of a military dictatorships in principle. So before you continue your own rant about 'freedom' of choice, perhaps you need to respect WHAT it is you are serving so blindly  before you judge others. 

I skipped a lot of your posts as I'm doing with the latest one, because most of it, is just you ranting about your leftist ideals, and what you think is best for all of us... Sorry i can not take advise from some that did not contribute anything to those freedoms or rights earned by others, lets be clear i did not serve you or the government, i served the men and women on the left and right of me that stood shoulder to shoulder with me... each of them thought this nation was worthy of our service and sacrifice. I frankly don't give a shit about what you or others think of me or my service,  It was made very clear early in my career that most Canadians did not give a rats ass about me or my well being and that could not have been said louder by todays government or Citizens actions or lack off. But hey don't stop the show I'm sure others are enjoying it...

Quote

The 'liberal' concept is "give people the most individual freedoms possible WITHOUT INFRINGING UPON THE SAME FREEDOMS OF OTHERS TO THE SAME!" Note too that 'liberal' is French for 'freedom'. The 'conservative' concept refers to those who HAVE SOME FORTUNE they are afraid of losing. Thus you want whatever system that is working specifically FOR YOU (regardless of your actual belief about what is right or wrong for all others). And given the capitalist extreme is to believe one has some religious 'right' to the non-limited power of "OWNership" of the world without a people's democratic means to challenge, you represent the MOST AUTHORITARIAN threat of any ideal. 

Sorry almost puked there for a second, now i know your high as shit... socialism is not about freedoms it's about taking them away... and making the people dependent on the government for everything...Note that here in NB "libtard" is the word we describe Liberals that smoke to much crack, and we got way to many of them here in NB. Not really trying to bust your preconceived notions about me or any other conservatives, but I'm not a very religious man, and looking back on the history of the Canadian armed forces, I would not say our military posses much danger to you or any other lefty...that being said the left has employed our military to more conflict areas than any other political party, i wonder what they were thinking...where they trying to break in on that category of the most hawkish... 

Quote

and, back to you as an 'Army Guy', what 'freedom' do you enhance by having the power to take other people's lives AGAINST their wills, regardless of anyone respecting their 'free' choices and decisions?  

Well to start with your freedoms are enhanced , and the people of Afghanistan freedoms among other nations we have gone to war for or with..., and just for the record, those powers you said i have, to take lives of others  were given to me by our nations federal government, elected by you and me, those powers are used when all diplomacy has failed, and young men and women from across the country are mobilized to close with and destroy our enemies, i know a little harsh for those liberal ears... we do not hand out teddy bears and blankets, we arrange for the bad guys to meet their makers... but make no mistake be it liberal or conservative governments they decide when our military starts a fight and with whom, and for how long. Now your free to join if you want to contribute to that cause , or you can stay home with children. no one is judging you except you.

I'll close with this, because this conversation is giving me a headache...I have already received both of my vaccinations, because i was concerned with my health and that of my families.... and because i live in NB we are green and don't have any mandatory masking or other crap you guys do, because we already did our part...your barking up the wrong tree governor...

Once again good to hear about another drug induced coma your having....good talk, tell your mom i said hi...

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23 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Well said statements

Statements that could have been said with out the parade or slagging people because they have different opinions. No one here is talking about taking any of his rights or freedoms away... What they are discussing is the freedom of choice...

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26 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Statements that could have been said with out the parade or slagging people because they have different opinions. No one here is talking about taking any of his rights or freedoms away... What they are discussing is the freedom of choice...

the only side taking away anyone's rights are the pro-mandatory vaccine passport side

Edited by Yzermandius19
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10 hours ago, Scott Mayers said:

Hmmm. So you MUST favor the right of a woman to freely have an abortion under the same kind of concern? Arrogant religious nut  cases are the ONLY fear we need to be concerned about with respect to government. This FEAR of vaccines you think is rational requires that you presume it more likely than not that some conspiracy exists OF VERY EVIL beings who have it in their secret plan to poison YOU. But the KIND of response to such fears actually indicates what YOU and YOUR OWN internal mind believes as you would not think twice about using AUTHORITARIANISM to force the masses to conform to your religious beliefs.

Note that 'conservatism' is merely Anti-government because YOU FEAR LOSING what you or your family's are guilty of STEALING at some points in the past. The kind of religious on the 'right' are counterauthentic to your hypocritical beliefs in ACTING purely DARWINIAN with the 'freedom' to exploit others at your will that your Devil embraces yet you would IMPOSE a strengthening of religion FOR the stupid masses you REQUIRE the masses to be to be most optimal to capitalize upon. 

For your likely norm of conservative beliefs with weird health practices such as "homeopathy", think of the vaccine as a kind of homeopathic cure. The cult that became homeopathy is actually based on the historical roots of what became vaccines but without the actual science behind it. Vaccines are not what creates complications in those who have reactions. Rather, it is the individual's normal RESPONSE to foreign matter that OVERDRIVES some people's immune system. The vaccine is NOT the virus but has pieces of protein that FAKE the actual virus' external body so that your system LEARNS the functioning 'keys' that enable the virus to sneak in to cells. Viruses act quick because they are NOT 'alive' but just forms of INFORMATION that borrow whatever cell's functions to create proteins that steal away the normal functioning of the cell. So given they are 'dumb' in this way, the vaccines are only a means to GET our systems to react when normally they get unnoticed before it is too late.

AS to YOUR 'rights to freedom to choose the vaccine', note that your selfish 'freedom' STEALS the 'freedom' from others by the neglect of how pathogens like viruses EVOLVE and get passed on. This is not the kind of argument one might pose for why EVERYone in some school cannot eat peanut butter for the trivial minority who have a reaction. It is something that goes broad and unpredictably. 

 

If you argue for "NATURE" (or your 'God's domain) to be left untouched for being 'His will', then why should the very 'free choices' you presume is humanity's EXCEPTION to 'nature', then CHOOSE the vaccine as it is what you believe your God gave us. The collective intelligence that derived our ability to understand viruses is our collective "free will" when we choose to utilize what we learned from nature to ALTER our outcomes in conflict to NATURE. 

If you still maintain distrust of some conspiracy to do you harm, then look in the mirror because you are not telling us what you fear of others but what you fear of what YOU are certain YOU would do if you had the chance to infect others when or where you have the power. YOU, not the other side, believes in 'free exploitation' by the very means of which a 'good' capitalists would do ANYTHING, including doing whatever it takes to weaken your target's suspicion of your deception as you 'profit' upon what they 'lose'. 

 

Only a nutcase sociopath wouldn't understand that abortion is infringing on another person's right.   The right of the unborn.

There's no more excuse for abortion!  W've already spent billions on education, and tecnology has already offered so many choice to prevent an unwanted oregnancy!

F**K! Moron who keep refusing to use condoms - the most common contraception - has also increased the rates of STD!  That's the kind of mentality you want to support?

 

And you worry about anti-vaxxers?  Lol.   You guys are too funny.

 

Bottom line:

The government has no business legislating and giving the open season license to kill any human being - no matter what group they belong to. 

 

If the woman  wants to kill her unborn, then that's her choice!  Go use a hanger, or do it in some back alleys!  Find a sleazy quack!

Edited by betsy
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4 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the only side taking away anyone's rights are the pro-mandatory vaccine passport side

....the same warped-minded people who support those who have sex without using protection,thus we have high rates of STD - despite billions of dollars spent on education!

 

Now we know.......................education doesn't work on morons!

 

Lol - there'll probably come a day when we're all so over Covid................ but worrying about a novel airborne virus spread about by these STD!

Edited by betsy
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22 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Obviously

and in Canada, every major party openly supports this

see Doug Ford and his vaccine passports

Jim Crow laws are back

and the vast majority of Canadians applaud it

Most politicians are in it for.....................themselves.  Not that I'm making excuses for them, but that's just the sad reality of it.

Gone are the days when there were those who truly want to serve the country and make a difference............when leaving a respectable legacy truly matters.  Gone are the days when ethics rule - politicians behaving unethically voluntarily resigns. 

Lol - now, the motto is, "never admit it.  Spin, spin, spin."  Oh, and,  "over my dead body!" ?

Those few who start having noble ideas are easily swallowed up by the rotten environment of politics today............. or, thrown out.  They don't last.

 

 

 

Edited by betsy
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1 hour ago, betsy said:

Most politicians are in it for.....................themselves.  Not that I'm making excuses for them, but that's just the sad reality of it.

Gone are the days when there were those who truly want to serve the country and make a difference............when leaving a respectable legacy truly matters.  Gone are the days when ethics rule - politicians behaving unethically voluntarily resigns. 

Lol - now, the motto is, "never admit it.  Spin, spin, spin."  Oh, and,  "over my dead body!" ?

Those few who start having noble ideas are easily swallowed up by the rotten environment of politics today............. or, thrown out.  They don't last.

most of electorate can't handle the truth

and will only vote for politicians that blow sunshine up their ass

not that I'm making excuses for them, that's just the sad reality of it

the people vote for politicians to strip them of their freedoms to feel safe

and the politicians strip people of their freedoms so they will vote for them

this is why a true public servant would either not get elected in the first place or wont last long in office

because too many opportunistic grifters will lie and cheat to get elected and exploit their opposition tying one hand behind their back by having integrity

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This is not that difficult...or SHOULDN'T be that difficult to resolve.

YOU are not required to be vaccinated for COVID, your body, your choice.

If you want to associate with someone else in a public place, it is THEY that need protection from your lack of trust in science and government (and it IS your right and privilege to be able to exercise that lack of trust).  So, if you want to enter those socializing places, your choice must mean complying with the established protocols to exercise that right.  

IMHO, in a country with SOCIAL MEDICINE, letting someone poison or harm themselves is an example of our system of government being VERY forgiving and tolerant of your personal rights and freedoms.

If you want to travel, once more you are free to do so, but if you want to travel and potentially expose other citizen taxpayers to your illness (or any other reasonably certain risk to their health and safety) once again, it is only fair and logical to conform to the protocols for participating in these collective practices with other people.

Our problem when it comes to abortion and euthenasia is that we have failed to adequately establish a consistent definition of what/when is start of life and what/when is end of viability.

If you want to murder and unborn child (a genetically distinct INDIVIDUAL) in this country, under most conditions you are free to do so AND get the bills paid by your fellow taxpayer.   Obviously a failing of use of any logic on behalf of our system of government.

There should always be a consistent understanding of where personal rights and freedoms start and stop and where responsibilities to the collective are defined and sanctioned.  In the case of murder of an innocent individual, we don't have that consistency.  In the matter of public health protection, we are somewhat closer.

Our problem with abortion and euthenasia is that we have failed to arrive at a consistent definition of what constitutes INDIVIDUAL life - start, finish and viability.  The mere fact we can see people argue that COVID passports are somehow related to abortion policies is demonstrated proff.

Edited by cannuck
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I can appreciate that a handful of people don't wish to be vaccinated. That's fine and I support their choice but it also means they should remain in their homes on their property. Others don't wish to be around you. You're going to find in the coming days and weeks that you're simply not welcome in a growing list of places and business establishments. Edmonton has brought back mandatory masks until the end of the year.  Enjoy your freedom locked alone in your home.

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18 minutes ago, RedDog said:

I can appreciate that a handful of people don't wish to be vaccinated. That's fine and I support their choice but it also means they should remain in their homes on their property. Others don't wish to be around you. You're going to find in the coming days and weeks that you're simply not welcome in a growing list of places and business establishments. Edmonton has brought back mandatory masks until the end of the year.  Enjoy your freedom locked alone in your home.

Enjoy living like a muzzled dog. Call it “freedom”.

Enjoy being told by bureaucrats when you’re allowed to see some family. Because that’s not going away regardless.

Canadians have voluntarily done well in reaching a high enough level to achieve technical herd-immunity by the old standards. You probably forgot the promises that were made if we could teach 80% vaccination. Essentially there now, sans mandate.

But it is still not good enough. The vaccine isnt doing its job. The goalposts moved again.

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10 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Statements that could have been said with out the parade or slagging people because they have different opinions. No one here is talking about taking any of his rights or freedoms away... What they are discussing is the freedom of choice...

As I said before in any democracy there is a limit to freedom or choice. When that choice infringes on other people's rights and freedom or endanger their lives that freedom or choice is constrained by law and I have given many examples in the past like freedom of speech is limited if the speaker incites violence provokes like others to harm certain groups.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Enjoy living like a muzzled dog. Call it “freedom”.

Enjoy being told by bureaucrats when you’re allowed to see some family. Because that’s not going away regardless.

 

Amazing to me still how you were previously insisting that the "vulnerable" should stay home while everyone else didn't.  Now that the "vulnerable" are the unvaccinated, you have a problem with your own solution.

10 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Canadians have voluntarily done well in reaching a high enough level to achieve technical herd-immunity by the old standards. You probably forgot the promises that were made if we could teach 80% vaccination. Essentially there now, sans mandate.

But it is still not good enough. The vaccine isnt doing its job. The goalposts moved again.

1. Canada, as a whole, is at 75% vaccinated.  That's not 80%, so herd immunity has not been reached.

2. The vaccination is doing its job: it's reducing cases, reducing the seriousness of the illness among the vaccinated, reducing hospitalizations, reducing death.  The vaccination clearly works.  

The unvaccinated are driving the current surge in cases, causing governments to continue or renew restrictions and mandates.  

Have you gotten vaccinated yet?  Or are you going to rely on horse dewormer?  

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2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Amazing to me still how you were previously insisting that the "vulnerable" should stay home while everyone else didn't.  Now that the "vulnerable" are the unvaccinated, you have a problem with your own solution.

1. Canada, as a whole, is at 75% vaccinated.  That's not 80%, so herd immunity has not been reached.

2. The vaccination is doing its job: it's reducing cases, reducing the seriousness of the illness among the vaccinated, reducing hospitalizations, reducing death.  The vaccination clearly works.  

The unvaccinated are driving the current surge in cases, causing governments to continue or renew restrictions and mandates. 

You don't understand, and fixate on me but not the information. The government is telling us this, not me. We are told to expect a "dark fall and winter". I presume they don't mean because of reduced hours of sunlight. Restrictions shall continue through fall and winter in Ontario.

That is despite reaching the technical herd immunity they crowed about before. Now you might notice if you read,, the message is that we must get to 100%. The message is that herd immunity is impossible.

-> Have you gotten vaccinated yet?  Or are you going to rely on horse dewormer?  

It's not your business, why should you care?

I like the prevailing argument coming from mainstream trying to make the anti-mandate argument appear ridiculous, by associating it with the lunatic fringe. The media fed you those stories to make intelligent discussion about the law around mandates seem ridiculous.

 

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There's a simple and short word: "untrustworthy". Cannot and not to be trusted. So many times, so many different stories fed and promises made, and not a single one came true (please spare me another listing). This appears to have been just another one in the long list. We're approaching the level of full vaccination of the population, down to the last couple of percent. There's simply no physical ground left for the covid-hysteria, it's all in the imagination, another detached reality created by incessant drumming.

It can be understood though when looking from the other side. We have no clues and perfectly aware of that ("travel from Wuhan"). Something is happening that we did not expect and don't understand. What should we do, any clues, anyone? Where to distract, who to blame and what next muzak to play?

Just forget everything what happened and was promised before, and march on, on and on. And we'll provide the drumming, what you thought the deal was managing the epidemics, ah so cute.

Edited by myata
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33 minutes ago, myata said:

There's a simple and short word: "untrustworthy". Cannot and not to be trusted.

I have another word I go by, "compassion". Find the compassion in every situation. Protect the most vulnerable from being trampled on by the insane horde.

If I were king...

;)

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As of Sep. 2, Ontario:

Fully vaccinated: 68% (total population 14.7 million) (Grade 3 math: 9,983,796 / 14,730,000 = 0.6778)

Children under 12: up to 15%

Fully recovered (equivalent to fully vaccinated): 5-8% (including unreported cases)

Partially vaccinated (previously claimed to have strong protection): 8-10%

Medical exceptions to vaccination: 1-3%

Can you do the math? Who can?

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What it all boils own to is we need to get as many people vaccinated as possible because we have a crappy health care system which can't cope with even the number of unvaccinated who are getting hospitalized. I honestly don't care what happens to the unvaccinated, but they will wind up in hospital, and we know that people suffering other ailments have died due to the way covid has overstretched our crappy health care system. People's treatment and surgery has been delayed due to the influx of morons with covid who never got vaccinated in other jurisdictions and we don't want that happening here as we try to recover from the delays caused by the previous waves.

 

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2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The government is telling us this, not me. We are told to expect a "dark fall and winter".

I happen to think they're wrong about that, because of what's happened in England.  Nonetheless, vaccines will ensure this surge sputters instead of roaring.

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I like the prevailing argument coming from mainstream trying to make the anti-mandate argument appear ridiculous, by associating it with the lunatic fringe.

It is the lunatic fringe ; less than 20% of the population (going by your claim of 80% vaccination), given that many people can't be vaccinated due to health issues.

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

not your business, why should you care?

I do care: about the unvaccinated taking up hospital beds that might go to the heart and cancer patients you pretend to be so concerned about; about the depressed and lonely who are at risk of suicide as restrictions continue or increase - another group you've pretended to care about in the past; about the seniors the unvaccinated would confine to homes and care facilities to keep them "safe".  Safe from whom, you may ask?   The unvaccinated. 

 

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5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 

I do care: about the unvaccinated taking up hospital beds that might go to the heart and cancer patients you pretend to be so concerned about; about the depressed and lonely who are at risk of suicide as restrictions continue or increase - another group you've pretended to care about in the past; about the seniors the unvaccinated would confine to homes and care facilities to keep them "safe".  Safe from whom, you may ask?   The unvaccinated. 

 

Yes when all beds are taken up by selfish uninformed  unvaccinated people then there will be no care, beds, doctors and burses left for those who are gravely ill for no choice of their own like heart and cancer patients.

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OK we have to do the math (only for Grade 3 experts) again.

1. The population of Ontario is 14.7 million

2. Children 12 and under: 2 million (Ontario demographics). Eligible population (over 12): 12.7 million

3. Vaccinated (very strong or good protection): 10,840,000 (Ontario vaccinations)

4. Recovered from Covid (considered equivalent to full vaccination): 567,000 (including unreported cases, possibly up to 1 million)

5. Exempted from vaccination for medical reasons: 1-3% (estimate): 250,00

Total: 11.7 to 12 million with strong or very strong (according to claims) protection.

What remains is supposed to be the cause of this new scary wave. Several hundred thousand, less that 10% of the eligible population, many of them in the younger age group for obvious reasons, could produce a wave greater than the last one, without any vaccines? Either that; or something isn't working with the great new panacea as planned and being clueless, someone is in an urgent need of a new narrative and a hastily appointed scapegoat. The numbers are out there, so pick one.

 

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