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Hypocrisy of "My Body, My Choice!"


betsy

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Whether you agree or not, the fact is that vaccines can cause serious side-effects to some people.   It's understandable for some people to be wary, and distrustful of it.....especially when it is acknowledged that there can be some serious damage. 

Why are people being forced to put chemicals into their own body?

 

To say that they endanger others, is not good enough an excuse to be AUTHORITARIAN with this mandate.

  It is the responsibility of each and everyone of us to be responsible for our own selves.  You protect yourself the way you see fit!  You have that right!  However - your right doesn't extend to stepping on someones else's  right. 

 

There are other ways that can be given as alternatives without having to eliminate choices!  Rapid testing before anyone can come in could be among them.  Using masks or ppe can be an additional implementation for protection.

So - why are the Liberals and NDP being so adamant that it's .......................either this, or the highway? 

 

We have to consider the ideology of these two parties.   The NDP is admittedly a socialist party (therefore, no surprise there).  And, Trudeau has been vocally appreciative of Communist regimes like China (therefore, no surprise there either)!  The Liberal Party - just like the Democrats in the USA - isn't the same Liberal Party that your parents had supported years ago.  The Liberal Party is now far left-leaning.  We have to acknowledge that.

 

Fear of this virus, is real to so many people.   Fear....................................... that can be EXPLOITED!

 

ARE WE BEING GROOMED TO BE OPEN TO............................. AND, ACCEPT AN AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT?

Edited by betsy
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2 hours ago, betsy said:

ARE WE BEING GROOMED TO BE OPEN TO............................. AND, ACCEPT AN AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT?

Obviously

and in Canada, every major party openly supports this

see Doug Ford and his vaccine passports

Jim Crow laws are back

and the vast majority of Canadians applaud it

Edited by Yzermandius19
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8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can choose to not be vaccinated.

The government has never allowed you to do whatever you like with your body, at least not for 100 years.

 

You can't even choose unpasteurized milk.

the government forcing you to put something in your body

is even worse than telling you what you can't put in it

you support Jim Crow laws mandating segregation for the unvaccinated

duly noted

Edited by Yzermandius19
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2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. the government forcing you to put something in your body

2. you support Jim Crow laws mandating segregation for the unvaccinated

 

1. No more than they force you to have a chequing account, phone or internet.  You can opt out.  Your decision to isolate yourself means you have additional challenges that you have taken on yourself.

2. Comparing it to Jim Crow is a pathetic argument.  Presumably you weren't born a conspiracy theorist so don't bawl when people treat you like one.

Too many rights not enough responsibility.

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4 hours ago, betsy said:

 

 

To say that they endanger others, is not good enough an excuse to be AUTHORITARIAN with this mandate.

  It is the responsibility of each and everyone of us to be responsible for our own selves.  You protect yourself the way you see fit!  You have that right!  However - your right doesn't extend to stepping on someones else's  right. 

 

There are other ways that can be given as alternatives without having to eliminate choices!  Rapid testing before anyone can come in could be among them.  Using masks or ppe can be an additional implementation for protection.

So - why are the Liberals and NDP being so adamant that it's .......................either this, or the highway? 

 

There are always limits to the rights in any democracy. Individual rights end when it infringes on other people's rights and safety. You have the right to listen to loud music at home anytime? Not so neighbors will call the police on you. You have the right to drink and drive? Not so you will be arrested for endangering other people's lives. You are allowed to smoke in public places. Not so anymore as it was proven it causes health problem for others

refusing to vaccine and going to public places is one clear case of that. By refusing to vaccine you are 22 times more susceptible to infection. That is allowing virus to enter and mutate in your body or transfer it to others. Hence you endanger other people who some may die as a results when you leave your home and go to public places like grocery.

 

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Remember what happened to the "contact tracing app" that was drummed and sung and pushed like by a noisy door-to-door seller never explaining how it could even work with so many glaring problems? The bottom line is, it's not the Man, it's us. Whatever we'll make of the mandates and passports that is what we (and our posterity, why not and where would be the guarantees) will live with. Fair is fair.

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5 hours ago, betsy said:

Whether you agree or not, the fact is that vaccines can cause serious side-effects to some people.   It's understandable for some people to be wary, and distrustful of it.....especially when it is acknowledged that there can be some serious damage. 

Although I choosed to be vaccinated, I have concerns regarding this vaccination passport. Neverthenless, here I will only respond to your point.

If you are a candidate for serious damage, then demonstrate it and we will provide you a free pass. Since you can't, the facts are rather saying that the chances to get serious damages if you catch covid-19 are seriously greater than the ones to side effects from the vaccine.

So your point rather justify vaccination than the other way around. You will get a better point if you compare this situation with infectious decease. Take the flu for instance. For most of us, once you catch it, you just spent at most few days of inconvenience. But for few old people, this can be deadly. I never saw any kind of measure to prevent people for having the flu from getting in a residency for old people before 2020. Why out of sudden it matters? Do you need a aid-free passport to date someone?  Dig a little. There are comparable situations where no actions are taken that can make you wonder.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. No more than they force you to have a chequing account, phone or internet.  You can opt out.  Your decision to isolate yourself means you have additional challenges that you have taken on yourself.

2. Comparing it to Jim Crow is a pathetic argument.  Presumably you weren't born a conspiracy theorist so don't bawl when people treat you like one.

Too many rights not enough responsibility.

1) they put those additional challenges on me, for no good reason, I have nothing to do with it

2) government mandated segregation is what Jim Crow laws were, and that's what the vaccine passports are

the only differences is the basis of that segregation, instead of race, this time it's vaccine status

but notice how blacks, as the least vaccinated minority group, are disproportionately effected by this bullshit

conspiracy in plain sight, to those not being an ostrich with it's head in the sand

if you can't see the obvious parallels, it's because you overly attached to a deeply immoral position that you want to virtue signal about

Edited by Yzermandius19
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4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can choose to not be vaccinated.

The government has never allowed you to do whatever you like with your body, at least not for 100 years.

 

You can't even choose unpasteurized milk.

Unless you wanted to abort a living being inside your body, that you can do without anyone blinking an eye, This is an issue that divides a portion of the Canadian population, and one that leaves one scratching ones head, their body their choice, unless of course we are talking about vaccines.. then it's bend over i got something for you...

If you live in the city then yes Unpasteurized milk maybe hard to get, but in the country it is common, while it is illegal's to sell it, farmers regularly give it away atleast in my area.

Again you can pump any drug known to mankind into your body, no questions asked you can even have tax payers money to fund any emergency services you require. and yet we are having serious issues with vaccinations the question is why can we not choose on this issue. More people die every year from drug overdoses each year than have died from covid over the last year and half... but we are ok with using drugs...just not people that chose not to inject anything into their bodies.

Don't get me wrong i have choose to get the both shots as a precaution to my health and my families.. In the military you get lots of shots every year, no big deal... I just think that some of our thinking is one sided or flawed...the argument that you will be only killing yourself with drugs , is also false, many drugs do not require to be used in order to be lethal, take fentanyl for instance, dozens of cops have died just from handling it, hundreds of others have as well.

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2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

and yet we are having serious issues with vaccinations the question is why can we not choose on this issue.

That's it, thank you, you nailed it. At issue is not certain act, and the multitude of points and arguments around it but the choice itself, the right to choose, until and unless there is a strong, discussed, proven and accepted by a consensus need to limit it. And that is exactly what's missing from this picture. We get appeals and directions, but few explanations, evidence, justifications and meaningful review from all perspective. It's not about to do or not, it's about the choice. And it makes all the difference.

Edited by myata
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The Hyperbole from you Anti-Vax crazies is amusing. 

1) You are not being forced to get a vaccine

2) Often a negative test is acceptable. 

3) Passports are only being implemented for indoor non-essential service. The type of services that were locked down for most of the year already.

Unvaccinated people stand an even greater chance of getting sick by using these services. Just like the government makes you wear a seatbelt, because if you do get in an accident, the chances you'll land in an ICU is exponentially greater. 

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15 minutes ago, Boges said:

The Hyperbole from you Anti-Vax crazies is amusing. 

1) You are not being forced to get a vaccine

2) Often a negative test is acceptable. 

3) Passports are only being implemented for indoor non-essential service. The type of services that were locked down for most of the year already.

Unvaccinated people stand an even greater chance of getting sick by using these services. Just like the government makes you wear a seatbelt, because if you do get in an accident, the chances you'll land in an ICU is exponentially greater. 

I'm all for vaccinations, i have mine but they are mixed, and not accepted around the world. Due to misinformation put out there by our government. 

1) people are being forced, if you are working for the federal government, or some provincial governments, some health services even some schools are making it mandatory , So yes they are giving you a choice get it or leave... these battles are still being fought as of today.

2) And often it is not the only acceptable practice to be admitted to those activities, such as travel even within Canada, let alone the rest of the world. 

3) Not true...

Yes unvaccinated people do run a higher risk of getting sick, so what, The government also says that drugs are illegal, but they still waste valuable tax dollars providing emergence services to those that over dose on a regular basis, they also spend tax dollars on safe injection sites or free arcane so druggies can get high... knowing full well they are going to be a burden to our health care system... we are OK with all of that but not ok with someone that chooses not to get a vaccination. why do they get a choice and the rest of the unvaccinated do not...

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53 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I'm all for vaccinations, i have mine but they are mixed, and not accepted around the world. Due to misinformation put out there by our government. 

1) people are being forced, if you are working for the federal government, or some provincial governments, some health services even some schools are making it mandatory , So yes they are giving you a choice get it or leave... these battles are still being fought as of today.

You're not being forced. But that may be a prerequisite of employment. Very different. 

 

Quote

2) And often it is not the only acceptable practice to be admitted to those activities, such as travel even within Canada, let alone the rest of the world. 

And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not an absolute right to travel internationally or use Federally regulated transportation. 

Quote

 

3) Not true...

Yes unvaccinated people do run a higher risk of getting sick, so what, The government also says that drugs are illegal, but they still waste valuable tax dollars providing emergence services to those that over dose on a regular basis, they also spend tax dollars on safe injection sites or free arcane so druggies can get high... knowing full well they are going to be a burden to our health care system... we are OK with all of that but not ok with someone that chooses not to get a vaccination. why do they get a choice and the rest of the unvaccinated do not...

 

Illicit drug use isn't contagious. BUT  second-hand smoke has been effectively banned in public spaces. So the government does restrict freedoms in the name of public health, all the time. Seatbelts are a great example of this. 

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This is actually a good point, about negative tests and especially, record of recovery. Are they all there, in the small print? Because according to the science confirmed by near-universal acceptance around the world, they have to be equivalent to full vaccination.

So, if they are there, in the small print, and the limitations are only temporary and only for non-essential services OK I can see the rationale. But if not, why not, who has explained that it shouldn't be and justified it, how and on what objectives grounds? What is the objective here, the safety of the population that has to be the same either way according to science, or ideological dogma to promote vaccination at all costs and for its own sake?

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3 hours ago, Benz said:

Although I choosed to be vaccinated, I have concerns regarding this vaccination passport. Neverthenless, here I will only respond to your point.

If you are a candidate for serious damage, then demonstrate it and we will provide you a free pass. Since you can't, the facts are rather saying that the chances to get serious damages if you catch covid-19 are seriously greater than the ones to side effects from the vaccine.

So your point rather justify vaccination than the other way around. You will get a better point if you compare this situation with infectious decease. Take the flu for instance. For most of us, once you catch it, you just spent at most few days of inconvenience. But for few old people, this can be deadly. I never saw any kind of measure to prevent people for having the flu from getting in a residency for old people before 2020. Why out of sudden it matters? Do you need a aid-free passport to date someone?  Dig a little. There are comparable situations where no actions are taken that can make you wonder.

Because currently Covid can overwhelm hospitals and medical staff to the detriment of everybody.  The flu doesn't because it's relatively stable year to year.  Once enough people get vaccinated against Covid, this will be much less of a concern and our health care system will be able to accommodate Covid patients the way it does flu patients.  No doubt at that point the vaccine passport will fall by the wayside.

 

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In Ontario, recent recovery is not recognized as the grounds for the passport. There's no scientific or rational reasons for that and it's contrary to the EU policy. So it must be about something else, not the safety of the public.

And our experts' of course can chat all they like about what will happen and when but by now we can just turn around and see exactly what all the earlier predictions and promises were worth. But of course, 97-98% is not enough yet (86 vaccinated plus 10 recovered plus 1-3 medical exceptions). The glorious struggle must go on!

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By the argument of not being supported by clear scientific evidence and widespread practice in other jurisdictions it has to be viewed as an arbitrary use of authority, without due process and oversight intended for mostly, or only ideological purposes. Compare with authoritarian regimes at least they do not disguise themselves, though many have learned that trick as well. It isn't so hard, really.

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I agree that people should not be forced to take any vaccine. By that measure, I also agree with the OP that it's pathetically hypocritical for people to suddenly declare themselves to be pro-choice after years of trying to interfere in and legislative other people's personal choices that involve their own body.

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Definitely. Difficult to justify logically appealing to the state to prevent others from making legitimate choices then cry and shout when getting the back end of it. And equally hypocritical would be to proclaim devotion to freedom of choice and then attempt to deny or limit it on purely ideological grounds without sufficient justification and evidence.

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12 hours ago, betsy said:

Whether you agree or not, the fact is that vaccines can cause serious side-effects to some people.   It's understandable for some people to be wary, and distrustful of it.....especially when it is acknowledged that there can be some serious damage. 

Why are people being forced to put chemicals into their own body?

 

To say that they endanger others, is not good enough an excuse to be AUTHORITARIAN with this mandate.

  It is the responsibility of each and everyone of us to be responsible for our own selves.  You protect yourself the way you see fit!  You have that right!  However - your right doesn't extend to stepping on someones else's  right. 

 

There are other ways that can be given as alternatives without having to eliminate choices!  Rapid testing before anyone can come in could be among them.  Using masks or ppe can be an additional implementation for protection.

So - why are the Liberals and NDP being so adamant that it's .......................either this, or the highway? 

 

We have to consider the ideology of these two parties.   The NDP is admittedly a socialist party (therefore, no surprise there).  And, Trudeau has been vocally appreciative of Communist regimes like China (therefore, no surprise there either)!  The Liberal Party - just like the Democrats in the USA - isn't the same Liberal Party that your parents had supported years ago.  The Liberal Party is now far left-leaning.  We have to acknowledge that.

 

Fear of this virus, is real to so many people.   Fear....................................... that can be EXPLOITED!

 

ARE WE BEING GROOMED TO BE OPEN TO............................. AND, ACCEPT AN AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT?

Hmmm. So you MUST favor the right of a woman to freely have an abortion under the same kind of concern? Arrogant religious nut  cases are the ONLY fear we need to be concerned about with respect to government. This FEAR of vaccines you think is rational requires that you presume it more likely than not that some conspiracy exists OF VERY EVIL beings who have it in their secret plan to poison YOU. But the KIND of response to such fears actually indicates what YOU and YOUR OWN internal mind believes as you would not think twice about using AUTHORITARIANISM to force the masses to conform to your religious beliefs.

Note that 'conservatism' is merely Anti-government because YOU FEAR LOSING what you or your family's are guilty of STEALING at some points in the past. The kind of religious on the 'right' are counterauthentic to your hypocritical beliefs in ACTING purely DARWINIAN with the 'freedom' to exploit others at your will that your Devil embraces yet you would IMPOSE a strengthening of religion FOR the stupid masses you REQUIRE the masses to be to be most optimal to capitalize upon. 

For your likely norm of conservative beliefs with weird health practices such as "homeopathy", think of the vaccine as a kind of homeopathic cure. The cult that became homeopathy is actually based on the historical roots of what became vaccines but without the actual science behind it. Vaccines are not what creates complications in those who have reactions. Rather, it is the individual's normal RESPONSE to foreign matter that OVERDRIVES some people's immune system. The vaccine is NOT the virus but has pieces of protein that FAKE the actual virus' external body so that your system LEARNS the functioning 'keys' that enable the virus to sneak in to cells. Viruses act quick because they are NOT 'alive' but just forms of INFORMATION that borrow whatever cell's functions to create proteins that steal away the normal functioning of the cell. So given they are 'dumb' in this way, the vaccines are only a means to GET our systems to react when normally they get unnoticed before it is too late.

AS to YOUR 'rights to freedom to choose the vaccine', note that your selfish 'freedom' STEALS the 'freedom' from others by the neglect of how pathogens like viruses EVOLVE and get passed on. This is not the kind of argument one might pose for why EVERYone in some school cannot eat peanut butter for the trivial minority who have a reaction. It is something that goes broad and unpredictably. 

 

If you argue for "NATURE" (or your 'God's domain) to be left untouched for being 'His will', then why should the very 'free choices' you presume is humanity's EXCEPTION to 'nature', then CHOOSE the vaccine as it is what you believe your God gave us. The collective intelligence that derived our ability to understand viruses is our collective "free will" when we choose to utilize what we learned from nature to ALTER our outcomes in conflict to NATURE. 

If you still maintain distrust of some conspiracy to do you harm, then look in the mirror because you are not telling us what you fear of others but what you fear of what YOU are certain YOU would do if you had the chance to infect others when or where you have the power. YOU, not the other side, believes in 'free exploitation' by the very means of which a 'good' capitalists would do ANYTHING, including doing whatever it takes to weaken your target's suspicion of your deception as you 'profit' upon what they 'lose'. 

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4 hours ago, Boges said:

You're not being forced. But that may be a prerequisite of employment. Very different. 

And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not an absolute right to travel internationally or use Federally regulated transportation. 

Illicit drug use isn't contagious. BUT  second-hand smoke has been effectively banned in public spaces. So the government does restrict freedoms in the name of public health, all the time. Seatbelts are a great example of this. 

Thats a pretty thin line, you're not being forced and yet if you want to continue to provide for your family you will obey...You will have drinks with me every night or your fired, you will work late into the night every night etc... ...both are prerequisites to having continued employment... Your asking someone to put their beliefs in their pocket and obey or leave...It may not sound like your being forceful but you are..

Once again they are restricting movement one of our rights guaranteed by our rights and freedoms...all in order to ensure compliance, all forms of travel are either federal or provincial regulated from your car to a peddle bike...

Illicit drugs are a drain on hospital resources, one of the main reasons the health care system wants tighter restrictions...So if we are going to restrict one and not the other one has to ask why... deaths from illicit drugs far out way covid, they also tie up more resources in large major cities. but i can over dose as many times as possible in a day, and nothing is being said or much being done about that fact... And like i said before one does not have to use drugs to be effected, lots of people have died from handling or coming in contact with drugs like fentanyl and other drugs...

Seat belts are a good example, and for the most part everyone does comply with this law, and yet drinking and driving has little effect, but we are failing to control this practice... there are many repeat offenders, even repeat offenders that have taken lives while driving are still driving... So not all our laws are that effective. As are all our medical restrictions. There are much better ways to ensure a higher turn out rate at vaccination sites, lets try them first...Like paying people to take it, lotto's, other prizes, shit live tax free for a year... Canadians like money more than moral values any day of the week...shit we just spent 360 plus billion last year, Justin is going to spend another 80 billion just in this election...... whats a couple more million to get the lotto started...we just like to be divided in this nation...for no reason...

These restrictions are only going to get worse, until there is only one option left...There has already been talk from political leaders in the western world to build detention centers for those unvaccinated, plus two cases of infant deaths that required medical operations but travel restrictions would not allow any travel...even for life saving procedures... How far are we going to go to convince people to get a shot...

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Nobody is forcing you to get vaccinated. But nobody should be forced to accompdate you of you choose not be vaccinated.  
 

You have freedom of choice but with that comes responsibility for the consequences your choices. Chain smokers who refuse to quit smoking are not eligible to receive lung transplants. Alcoholics who refuse to quit drinking are not eligible for liver transplants. IV drug users are not eligible to donate blood.   
 

There have always been mandatory vaccination requirements for measles, mumps and a long list of other diseases, now you can just add COVID to the list. 
 

As for employers’ hiring policies, invariably there will be employers out there willing to hire the unvaccinated and other anti-vaxers will find ways to work from home or be self-employed or whatever. But id none of those appeal to you then just factor that into your decision-making when weighing whether to get the shot or not. But understand nobody is legally obligated to accommodate your superstitions.

 

The soon-to-be 80% of eligible  Canadians who are fully vaccinated should not have to wear PPE 24/7 and do daily rapid testing just to accommodate the preferences and conspiracy theories of the unvaccinated 20% who are on the fringe. And besides at least half of the unvaccinated don’t even want any masks or testing or distancing. They just want everything to go back to how it was in 2019 and just let the virus kill at will. My kids are both under 12 and I don’t want them catching the virus from some unvaccinated conspiracy nut. who is on the fringe 

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25 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said:

 

Wow, my first thoughts after reading all that was " this guy must have just smoked a shit tonne of crack" , then i thought it sure sounds like some twisted Liberal or leftist with an axe to grind, upset over the latest release of the polls or maybe both, a leftist higher than shit trying to speech write for Justin.  I say leftist because of the way you wrote it, I"M left your wrong STFU. 

Lets not forget all the medical advice you have given out tonight, i am assuming your a PHD or some one that works in the field, with all the you have nothing to worry about it's all in your evil little head, some conspiracy that the right composed just for this occasion... we will paint the entire right with the same paint brush looneys with an over active imagination. But wait a minute are we suppose to bow down in front of your superior intellect and believe every word that comes from your god like mouth...No i don't think so...In fact vaccine's are not as benign as you paint them to be...in fact they can be deadly to a small percentage of people, what and who is this in this percentage no one knows....just bend over this will be over in a minute.... Have to excuse my Conservative friends if they don't trust anything that comes from the left side of the house...we have been bent over a lot this last 6 years and well my anus has grown to be quite large, for being screwed by the so call left... 

Vaccine Side Effects and Adverse Events | History of Vaccines

There is a list of side effects from most vaccines, not all of them are just a little soreness, or tender around the injection site, some of them are deadly... Is this your source of a conspiracy, would you swear on your life that this is not going to happen to anyone...shit no, leftist are not normally that brave...I'm not advocating NOT to get a shot, I'm saying it is a choice that has consequences such as loss of rights or travel or further restrictions. But it is a choice, you don't have to like it. 

Thanks for the drug induced speech though.

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