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Covid exit strategy


myata

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23 hours ago, taxme said:

The lying politicians will never be satisfied until 100% of the sheeple are all fully vaccinated with more vaccine booster jabs to follow. It will be booster jabs forever for all of the new covid variants that are really not going to come our way all that much. 

The politicians will try to pretend that the new variants are here to stay and that everybody must now be boosted up with more vaccines for their protection and for "public safety", public safety being the new buzzword now.  ?

You’re right.  

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13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

This isn’t China — yet.  Stand up against restrictions.  Don’t you get it yet?   They’re not going away.  It doesn’t matter if everyone is vaccinated.  It doesn’t matter if you need to show your papers to see a movie.  Mask mandates aren’t ending.  Your freedoms are being stripped without justification.  Wake up!

We're all  DOOMED I TELLS YA, WEARING A MASK IS LIKE BEING SENT TO  AUSCHWITZ. VACCINE PASSPORTS ARE THE WORK OF THE GESTAPO. VACCINES ARE THE WORK OF MENGELE'S SPAWN. AAAAAHHH!

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12 minutes ago, Aristides said:

We're all  DOOMED I TELLS YA, WEARING A MASK IS LIKE BEING SENT TO  AUSCHWITZ. VACCINE PASSPORTS ARE THE WORK OF THE GESTAPO. VACCINES ARE THE WORK OF MENGELE'S SPAWN. AAAAAHHH!

You’re an apologist for oppression.  You draw a false equivalence between valid concerns and extreme examples.  It’s actually your kind of downplaying of what governments are doing to citizens that is perpetuating the problem.  You don’t believe in freedom or personal responsibility.  If you kill ten accused, one of them might have actually committed the crime.  That’s what’s happening with our restrictions.  Like a frog in water that has its temperature gradually turned up, the frog doesn’t realize it’s being boiled to death.  That’s our society.  We’ve been conditioned to accept oppression for no clear reason.  It’s wrong and must be fought.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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In 1939 this country put 10% of its population in uniform and sent them off to war for six years, undergoing rationing,  going without manufactured goods and working in factories and shipyards producing war materials while wondering if their loved ones would come home. Now we have a bunch of fucking snowflakes who think wearing a mask and getting vaccinated is too much for them to fight a deadly virus that has killed millions world wide. Man we have become a pathetic bunch.

 

PS. I'm not the one who has been equating current restrictions with NAZI Germany, you hear if from these anti vax, anti mask morons on a daily basis.

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32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Don’t you get it yet?   They’re not going away.  It doesn’t matter if everyone is vaccinated.

And yet, the restrictions are regularly loosened/eliminated when cases start to go down; as they ramp up again, the restrictions are tightened again.  That's happened 3 times, already - so, what evidence do you have that they're "not going away"?  

35 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Mask mandates aren’t ending.  

Mask mandates already ended because cases were going down; cases started to go up and mask mandates returned.  Did you know they had mask mandates during the Spanish flu, and similar claims were made?  Yet, mask-wearing did not become a requirement for longer than the pandemic lasted.  

37 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Your freedoms are being stripped without justification.

Mask wearing = lack of freedom; how ridiculous.  Might as well complain about seat belt wearing, speed limits, having to wear a shirt in a restaurant, having to wear pants in public, having to drive sober, not being allowed to jay walk, not being allowed to randomly hit people.  Geez, mask wearing limits freedom - just laughable.

39 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Wake up!

?

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23 hours ago, taxme said:

The lying politicians will never be satisfied until 100% of the sheeple are all fully vaccinated ..

And there's an obvious reason for that too. It's much easier to pursue the impossible goal to the infinity and beyond with propaganda playing orchestrated muzak, drums beating cheerfully for the last steps to perfect vaccination (that could easily take forever like dropping into a black hole) than to come up with, implement and show in reality working, effective solutions. Maybe they long forgot how that (the latter) is done?

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8 minutes ago, dialamah said:

cases started to go up and mask mandates returned.

Very good, but why stopping there? Let's see, what happened next, after the mandates were reinstated or imposed? Did they turn down right away? And if they did not (waves two and three, all time records with full masking in place for months) then why were they imposed?

Why impose something if it makes no clear difference to the outcome? Isn't it what's called "arbitrary" and voluntaristic? It's not about how serious (in your view) the limitations imposed on others are, but that it's arbitrary and in their view, unnecessary, and you adamantly refuse to explain and prove otherwise causing mistrust and resistance. So no, not the same as seatbelts, it's proven with facts that they save lives. But you have not proved the same for masks as a universal and default solution for all situations and environments.

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1 minute ago, myata said:

Let's see, what happened next, after the mandates were reinstated or imposed? Did they turn down right away?

*sighs*  Yeah, masks work - along with physical distancing, hand washing, yada yada.  And of course not "right away"; it takes at least two weeks to start seeing the decline.  That's why governments tend to give about a month before reassessing the situation.  Don't you pay any attention at all?

Here's some science for you, from the Proceedings of the Natural Academy of Science of the United States, January 2021.

The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high. Given the current shortages of medical masks, we recommend the adoption of public cloth mask wearing, as an effective form of source control, in conjunction with existing hygiene, distancing, and contact tracing strategies.

I'm assuming you'll ignore this science in some way; I hope you prove me wrong.

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45 minutes ago, dialamah said:

And yet, the restrictions are regularly loosened/eliminated when cases start to go down; as they ramp up again, the restrictions are tightened again.  That's happened 3 times, already - so, what evidence do you have that they're "not going away"?  

Mask mandates already ended because cases were going down; cases started to go up and mask mandates returned.  Did you know they had mask mandates during the Spanish flu, and similar claims were made?  Yet, mask-wearing did not become a requirement for longer than the pandemic lasted.  

Mask wearing = lack of freedom; how ridiculous.  Might as well complain about seat belt wearing, speed limits, having to wear a shirt in a restaurant, having to wear pants in public, having to drive sober, not being allowed to jay walk, not being allowed to randomly hit people.  Geez, mask wearing limits freedom - just laughable.

?

I’m guessing you’re retired and don’t have to spend the day working in a mask.  You’re sheltered from the impacts, which take a significant toll after a while. I’ve seen the impacts on the front line workers who report to me. They’ve had to implement multiple last minute decisions and work under hard conditions for a long time.  I see it every day.  I also see the outsized paranoia and restrictions that don’t seem to give way no matter how few deaths and hospitalizations there are, because unlike during the Spanish flu, we’re bombarded with sensationalism that overshadows the risks.   

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27 minutes ago, dialamah said:

*sighs*  Yeah, masks work - along with physical distancing, hand washing, yada yada.  And of course not "right away"; it takes at least two weeks to start seeing the decline.  That's why governments tend to give about a month before reassessing the situation.  Don't you pay any attention at all?

Here's some science for you, from the Proceedings of the Natural Academy of Science of the United States, January 2021.

The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high. Given the current shortages of medical masks, we recommend the adoption of public cloth mask wearing, as an effective form of source control, in conjunction with existing hygiene, distancing, and contact tracing strategies.

I'm assuming you'll ignore this science in some way; I hope you prove me wrong.

Why did we get vaccinated?  When do the masks disappear?  I already know the answer.

No.  End the restrictions, treat the illness, and let it become endemic.  Get vaccinated, and if you’re immune-compromised or worried, get boosters.  

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42 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 

Here's some science for you, from the Proceedings of the Natural Academy of Science of the United States, January 2021.

 

The mask narrative review is an interesting read into examining how mask usage can prevent social transmission. A word of caution, this review does not cover SARS-CoV-2 transmission, but rather examines similar SARS, bacterial and other viral transmissions. Epidemiological evidence did not discuss cloth masks. Mask Use for other Respiratory Illnesses is inconclusive since there were no RCTs. Modeling  is only as accurate as assumptions or preset parameters, hopefully future modeling maintains accuracy.

Source Control, specifically Human Studies provided the most evidence  and conclusive positive outcome of mask usage.  

A good read overall, learning something new every day, thank you for sharing and citing. 

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I'm assuming you'll ignore this science in some way; I hope you prove me wrong.

Sigh means that the energy was exhausted after the first paragraph?

"Only one observational study has directly analyzed the impact of mask use in the community on COVID-19 transmission... (in China)".

"However, the review included only three studies of mask use outside health care settings, all of which were of SARS, not of SARS-CoV-2..."

"The remaining study found the use of masks was strongly protective, with a risk reduction of 70% for those that always wore a mask" that's one study, likely in China as well and one has to read it carefully for elimination of false correlation, for example "those that always wore a mask" can be extremely careful to avoid all kinds of contact so that the effect may not be attributed solely to mask wearing.

"Overall, evidence from RCTs and observational studies is informative, but not compelling on its own"

"None of the studies looked specifically at cloth masks."

Sigh, indeed.

"The lack of direct causal identifiability requires a more integrative systems view of efficacy. "

OK, it goes on and on. The bottom line is, it's been close to two years and there's not one clear peer-reviewed experiment to the extent "this close group of 100 people wore masks and that did not, and here's the result". Why?

There are almost certainly situations where mask use is warrantied. But to prove that it's an effective universal solution one has to try a lot harder and with much more convincing evidence. Remember, waves two and three reached all time highs in the same jurisdictions, with full mask mandates in place, while in the first wave they were optional and not enforced. Hows that for epidemiological and ecological evidence.

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1 hour ago, myata said:

There are almost certainly situations where mask use is warrantied.

The way masks are used by general public is practically useless. Masks need to be properly fitted to work against viruses. Or virii as it were. Facial hair is inadvisable, not allowed in a medical setting.

We are wearing them because we're told to. The vast majority are just going through the motions. It may even lead to more exposures due to a false sense of security.

Should never have been implemented...

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9 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The way masks are used by general public is practically useless. Masks need to be properly fitted to work against viruses. Or virii as it were. Facial hair is inadvisable, not allowed in a medical setting.

Exactly. Plus they may have vastly different effectiveness in different settings and situations until proven otherwise to be a hugely effective universal panacea sorry, instrument. All time highs of waves two and three were reached with mask mandates in place, while in the first one they were not advised.

The bottom line is, there can be two very directions of policy: intelligent and effective management of the epidemic; and appearance of action and cover bureaucratic bum management. And not a minor problem with proclaimed and drummed panaceas is that they may easily distract and change the direction from the former to the latter. For example what do masks do in the environments with low infection rate and sufficient spacing, do they actually do anything good, or otherwise as some studies shown? But it's easy to invest all time and effort into drumming versus for example, serious work on the ICU factor, the rate of cases and hospitalizations to ICU. The first is plain and st(andar)d drumming; while the second means serious work on the quality of emergency care, availability and timely and correct use of the latest and most effective treatments. So which one would you choose?

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3 minutes ago, myata said:

Exactly. Plus they may have vastly different effectiveness in different settings and situations until proven otherwise to be a hugely effective universal panacea sorry, instrument. All time highs of waves two and three were reached with mask mandates in place, while in the first one they were not advised.

The bottom line is, there can be two very directions of policy: intelligent and effective management of the epidemic; and appearance of action and cover bureaucratic bum management. And not a minor problem with proclaimed and drummed panaceas is that they may easily distract and change the direction from the former to the latter. For example what do masks do in the environments with low infection rate and sufficient spacing, do they actually do anything good, or otherwise as some studies shown? But it's easy to invest all time and effort into drumming versus for example, serious work on the ICU factor, the rate of cases and hospitalizations to ICU. The first is plain and st(andar)d drumming; while the second means serious work on the quality of emergency care, availability and timely and correct use of the latest and most effective treatments. So which one would you choose?

It is our fault as society for allowing politics to become intermingled with every other aspect of society. This has happened incrementally over a period of time in the west. Perhaps a symptom of decline as civilization "matures" is the rise of the do-gooders, those who believe they know what is best for ALL. What we see today is the height of human arrogance and desire for power.

It does not help when the message from leaders is seen for what it is, using the coronavirus as a political instrument to attack their opponent and maintain power. Then in the same breath advise us what is best for our health, for ALL OF US. What we need is a philosopher king. What we have is a fool, and a class of fools.

Such detritous must be routinely culled, lest it form into a malignancy that spreads. But oh, Canada, oh Canada...

;)

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Well, what else can you get for two centuries or so benevolent ruling without slightest of checks and accountability? "We think so you are".

"Avoid non-essential travel till further notice". "Welcome fully vaccinated tourists from around the world". In one sentence, and from the same mouth. Is it fait accompli, already? Have we arrived?

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On 9/1/2021 at 9:54 PM, OftenWrong said:

How about the right to an education that provides you with equal opportunity.

The right to not be discriminated against for medical reasons. 

BC and Quebec are discriminating against those who are medically ineligible, and maybe other provinces. 

On the plus side, if you die from taking a vaccine the Canadian government will pay for your funeral.

Even there, the government will seek to challenge every applicant. Your estate must prove you died of the vaccine, in court.

The next big and dangerous new variant virus that will soon come around will be what they now are starting to call it the "MU" virus. It's been hanging around in some of those Latin American countries lately. And of course the sheeple will be told once again that they may need to be vaccinated for this next covid virus variant. It will never end, folks.

The powers to be will not let it go. The globalist establishment will be trying to convince the stupid and the stunned out there that this virus is worse than than Delta virus and that the sheeple will be told that they may have to take another vaccine for this new "MU" virus. Will the sheeple fall for this one this time? I believe that they will. Once stupid, always stupid. It's so Canadian to be and act stupid. Aw well. Let the stupid carry on. They are what the globalists call "useful idiots". Sadly, Canada is so full of useful and stupid idiots. Just saying. ?

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19 hours ago, myata said:

And there's an obvious reason for that too. It's much easier to pursue the impossible goal to the infinity and beyond with propaganda playing orchestrated muzak, drums beating cheerfully for the last steps to perfect vaccination (that could easily take forever like dropping into a black hole) than to come up with, implement and show in reality working, effective solutions. Maybe they long forgot how that (the latter) is done?

There is only one solution to all of this covid nonsense. Stop listening to those many traitor politicians and the traitor media that have been feeding us for almost two years worth of bull shit regards covid. When the sheeple stop listening to those liars and spreaders of bullshit we will get back our freedoms and rights again. We will once again get back to the old normal days and ways where one could do or go anywhere or be able to do anything without first being told that they must be fully vaccinated. We once had freedom and rights. Now we pretty much have communism. 

Get ready for the next new covid virus to come on the scene. It is called the "MU" virus. Look it up on the internet. Booster shots galore will be coming our way. Oh the joy of it all. ?

 

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Once upon a time there will be a pandemic which will not allow to bumble and mumble randomly around the circle for months and years. This one has been predicted years ago, and this can be predicted too. Just because it's possible it will happen at some point. And then...

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2 minutes ago, taxme said:

Get ready for the next new covid virus to come on the scene. It is called the "MU" virus. Look it up on the internet. Booster shots galore will be coming our way. Oh the joy of it all. ?

 

Yep. So-called doctor Fauci has already indicated he wants to see people get a third shot. Whatever edicts come out from him will be obeyed. So it shall be written, and so it shall be done.

The dunderheads are so desperate they will believe anything, do anything they are told.

Game over for a once free humanity. Check Mate. The super-computer “Deep Blue” has won.

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40 minutes ago, taxme said:

Stop listening to those many traitor politicians and the traitor media that have been feeding us for almost two years worth of bull shit regards covid.

Not a fan of the white rose and don't even know much about it but a poster nearby made me laugh. "And like that little Susy cured the worst virus epidemics of all times" a hammer and a gaping hole in the TV screen. An oversimplification of course, but catches up somehow.

Edited by myata
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By the way, to the points repeatedly made on "filling the hospitals" has anyone looked at the ICU factor, measured by the ratio of reported cases / hospitalizations to ICU admissions? On the first glance at the numbers, it looks like in some provinces they show low numbers of cases with high ICU utilization, compared to other jurisdictions. I haven't looked at this closely (I'm not paid for that) but quite obviously, this would be a direct measure of the effectiveness of the emergency response in the system. And so, invest resources in the propaganda drumming and antivaxxer chases, or in effective early diagnostics and treatment preventing in many cases, escalations to ICU? Important to understand that is not a given by default, a system is a system but a choice, and so there are and will be systems and systems.

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On 8/29/2021 at 10:34 AM, RedDog said:

I see no exit strategy. The spin-off variants are worse than the original. Meanwhile, social distancing, masks and general appropriate conduct is being ignored.

I don't see anything but theater in those approaches.

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So, here's the real question that is distilling on the second year of the story: is the country's epidemiological and medical emergency response system effective; efficient; high if not top quality of management and treatment; and with sufficient capacity for a once-in-a-century epidemics that has been discussed and anticipated for decades?

Or are the panacea marches and scapegoat chases ("antimaskers", "antilockdowners", "antivaxxers", etc whatever next) aimed at distracting and covering the deep problems in the system? Basically for decades the bureaucracy has been spending public funds on itself but when the system is actually needed, here you go: travel from Wuhan, just stay at home, just put it on, lockdowns, just put it in, lockdowns again just march, march on without a clue or end in sight?

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