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Is Britain "The Leader of the Free World Now"?


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America lost their moral authority when they stopped acting like the Talis were evil scum that needed to be hunted, and had to beg for mercy from the Talis to get their civilians out. Plus they're weak AF now - they can't even get control of their border from Mexican drug lords, but that's a different topic. 

With every American that makes their way to the airport, with or without their teeth, the Talis look like decent people showing mercy to a hostile foreign invader that they have righteously driven out. All the Talis have to do to look like heroes now is sit on their asses and accept bribes. 

Sure, Britain played a role there too, but they weren't the cucks who botched this withdrawal and gave the Talis the upper hand, and gave them a chance to show their benevolence.

Germany is pretty powerful in their own right, and while they were a part of this shmozzle too, they still might have gained moral authority here because it was their first action since WWII if I'm not mistaken.

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Slightly OT - I notice that the Trump haters who love to act like Biden is "Worldly Joe" have gone completely silent of late.

There's no Bubber here, no BFever, BCSapper, dialamah, Argus, Boges, etc to act like Biden is still "THA MAN!". 

The only person who's chiming in to these Biden-blasting threads now that's not considered right-of-center is a Taliban supporter who's waving the pom-poms for smackin' down bitches who don't wear the hijab. 

Sad

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6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Slightly OT - I notice that the Trump haters who love to act like Biden is "Worldly Joe" have gone completely silent of late.

There's no Bubber here, no BFever, BCSapper, dialamah, Argus, Boges, etc to act like Biden is still "THA MAN!". 

The only person who's chiming in to these Biden-blasting threads now that's not considered right-of-center is a Taliban supporter who's waving the pom-poms for smackin' down bitches who don't wear the hijab. 

Sad

I can't speak for the others but I argue with people like you because people like you think Trump is good, when he's not.  Because you think Covid is a hoax, when it's not.  Because you think climate change is not real, when it is.  Because you think women are inferior to men, when they aren't. etc.

If you think Biden cocked this withdrawal up, why would I argue with you?  He did.

Edited by bcsapper
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I don't think Joe Biden is personally woke but he is most certainly totally controlled by woke advisors. Biden's lengthy career in politics always revolved around accumulating wealth for him and his family. The US will continue to grow weaker under the Biden/Harris "leadership" and China will fill the void to the detriment of the rest of the world.

When Biden speaks, does anyone actually believe he's the leader of the free world?

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4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I can't speak for the others but I argue with people like you because people like you think Trump is good, when he's not. 

What politician meets the lofty standard of "good"?

I'd like you to name a politician who you think is 'good' from the following list so that I can publicly humiliate you:

Hillary Clinton

Joe Biden

Justin Trudeau

Kamala Harris

Nancy Pelosi

Quote

Because you think Covid is a hoax, when it's not. 

Covid is not 'a hoax', covid is not what it's portrayed to be by the MSM.

FYI covid does not kill healthy people under 50 or the MSM wouldn't be pointing out "59 yr-olds with no underlying medical conditions" that died in foreign countries, across one of the world's largest oceans.

HCQ does not cause blindness or kill people.

You have to take covid for 5 full years, and ingest approximately 1 kilogram of HCQ before it becomes a concern for your vision. Look at this shit: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2020/5/19/doctors-note-hydroxychloroquine-will-it-cure-you-or-kill-you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine   Try to find the part where it says that HCQ is sometimes fatal.....

Guess what Sapper... the vaccines have actually killed a lot of people. Those are the exact same vaccines which were being pimped as 'safe', before trials were even done, by the exact same people who lied and told you that HCQ could kill you. 

What do you want me to say about people who lied and said that HCQ would kill you and then lied and said that the vaccines were safe? What should I say about people, like you, who still promote this bullshit? 

The [recently discredited] Lancet tried to promote a study that found alarmingly higher death rates for HCQ patients vs a control group, but that study now says "RETRACTED" on it in bog, bold, red letters. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/lancet-had-to-do-one-of-the-biggest-retractions-in-modern-history-how-could-this-happen

I can't find a study that shows where HCQ actually 'killed' anyone. Maybe you should do that before you make any more wildly stupid accusations.

Quote

Because you think climate change is not real, when it is. 

Climate change is 'normal'. People who promote climate change fear mongering like Leo DiCaprio and John Kerry fly in private in jets. David "mega-footprint" Suzuki has 4 big houses. Pontificatin' Prince Harry just got busted flying a private jet across states just to play in a polo match. 

You don't need to worry about what I think - what I'm telling you is that there were 1,400 private jets that flew to Davos for a climate change summit.

There were only 300 attendees at the Palermo, Italy climate change conference, but it took about 110 private jets to get them there. 

Our oh-so-concerned PM flies a jumbo jet on his campaign trail, with a second jumbo jet full of bought-and-paid-for sycophant journalists. Because why? there are no journalists in Calgary, Winnipeg, Mtl, Van, Edm etc to bear true witness to the glory that is Trudeau? 

Why the F should I listen to anything that any of those hypocritical assholes have to say?

Do you understand their message Sapper? Do you? I'll spell it out for you: "Sapper has to reduce his carbon footprint, but I'll use as much gas this year as ten families, with two SUVs each, will use in their lifetimes". 

Quote

Because you think women are inferior to men, when they aren't. etc.

This isn't a matter for debate: men are physically superior to women. If you want to debate me on that then I will make you look foolish. 

Quote

If you think Biden cocked this withdrawal up, why would I argue with you?  He did.

It's not really a matter of whether or not he cocked it up, it's a matter of whether he failed this test so miserably that he has proven himself and his chosen staff to be completely incompetent.

Him and his wags in DC are telling all kinds of lies about the pullout now. Joe says that he's not aware of anyone being killed, but Amnesty International has released statements about it, including one that says

Quote

"What we are witnessing in Afghanistan is a tragedy that should have been foreseen and averted."

Jen Psaki just said yesterday that "Americans are not "stranded" in Afghanistan. Pardon me? Some Americans are getting beaten up on their way to the airport and turned back, some are locking themselves in their rooms and are afraid to even go out to get food, and the government has no plans to go and get them. They've said that "they can't do it". How is that not "stranded"? 

There are about 10,000 Americans there and the Talis have told the US to get their troops out on the 31st or there will be consequences. Biden whimpered. Is the US getting over 1,000 of their people out every day? 

They've left an estimated $83 Billion worth of weapons there, including blackhawk helicopters and tens of thousands of military vehicles. 

This is worse than the Bay of Pigs, General Custer or any other debacle in US military history. 

Biden needs to step down, and the only thing that's stopping an outpouring of that sentiment is the fact that we all know how much worse Kamala Harris will be. 

Edited by WestCanMan
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1 hour ago, ironstone said:

I don't think Joe Biden is personally woke but he is most certainly totally controlled by woke advisors. Biden's lengthy career in politics always revolved around accumulating wealth for him and his family. The US will continue to grow weaker under the Biden/Harris "leadership" and China will fill the void to the detriment of the rest of the world.

When Biden speaks, does anyone actually believe he's the leader of the free world?

 

The entire premise of a U.S. as "world leader" has been eroding for many years, partially by design and otherwise because of 21st century realities.   America's century was the 20th, and its traditional role and influence was waning long before Biden, Trump, Obama, etc.

It's not just an emerging China, but also the inevitable changing world dynamics after the Cold War ended....no more binary, polarized West vs. Soviet Union/Russia and proxy nations so aligned.

The U.S. can no longer afford to be the world police, and shouldn't do so even if it could.

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4 hours ago, ironstone said:

I don't think Joe Biden is personally woke but he is most certainly totally controlled by woke advisors. Biden's lengthy career in politics always revolved around accumulating wealth for him and his family. The US will continue to grow weaker under the Biden/Harris "leadership" and China will fill the void to the detriment of the rest of the world.

When Biden speaks, does anyone actually believe he's the leader of the free world?

Biden is a "go along and get along", "get a participation ribbon" kind of guy. I am not Biden support, but what are the G7 leaders and his advisors thinking? You guys were with him in a closed-door meeting and let him making any decision? 

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4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

What politician meets the lofty standard of "good"?

I'd like you to name a politician who you think is 'good' from the following list so that I can publicly humiliate you:

Hillary Clinton

Joe Biden

Justin Trudeau

Kamala Harris

Nancy Pelosi

Covid is not 'a hoax', covid is not what it's portrayed to be by the MSM.

FYI covid does not kill healthy people under 50 or the MSM wouldn't be pointing out "59 yr-olds with no underlying medical conditions" that died in foreign countries, across one of the world's largest oceans.

HCQ does not cause blindness or kill people.

You have to take covid for 5 full years, and ingest approximately 1 kilogram of HCQ before it becomes a concern for your vision. Look at this shit: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2020/5/19/doctors-note-hydroxychloroquine-will-it-cure-you-or-kill-you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine   Try to find the part where it says that HCQ is sometimes fatal.....

Guess what Sapper... the vaccines have actually killed a lot of people. Those are the exact same vaccines which were being pimped as 'safe', before trials were even done, by the exact same people who lied and told you that HCQ could kill you. 

What do you want me to say about people who lied and said that HCQ would kill you and then lied and said that the vaccines were safe? What should I say about people, like you, who still promote this bullshit? 

The [recently discredited] Lancet tried to promote a study that found alarmingly higher death rates for HCQ patients vs a control group, but that study now says "RETRACTED" on it in bog, bold, red letters. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/lancet-had-to-do-one-of-the-biggest-retractions-in-modern-history-how-could-this-happen

I can't find a study that shows where HCQ actually 'killed' anyone. Maybe you should do that before you make any more wildly stupid accusations.

Climate change is 'normal'. People who promote climate change fear mongering like Leo DiCaprio and John Kerry fly in private in jets. David "mega-footprint" Suzuki has 4 big houses. Pontificatin' Prince Harry just got busted flying a private jet across states just to play in a polo match. 

You don't need to worry about what I think - what I'm telling you is that there were 1,400 private jets that flew to Davos for a climate change summit.

There were only 300 attendees at the Palermo, Italy climate change conference, but it took about 110 private jets to get them there. 

Our oh-so-concerned PM flies a jumbo jet on his campaign trail, with a second jumbo jet full of bought-and-paid-for sycophant journalists. Because why? there are no journalists in Calgary, Winnipeg, Mtl, Van, Edm etc to bear true witness to the glory that is Trudeau? 

Why the F should I listen to anything that any of those hypocritical assholes have to say?

Do you understand their message Sapper? Do you? I'll spell it out for you: "Sapper has to reduce his carbon footprint, but I'll use as much gas this year as ten families, with two SUVs each, will use in their lifetimes". 

This isn't a matter for debate: men are physically superior to women. If you want to debate me on that then I will make you look foolish. 

It's not really a matter of whether or not he cocked it up, it's a matter of whether he failed this test so miserably that he has proven himself and his chosen staff to be completely incompetent.

Him and his wags in DC are telling all kinds of lies about the pullout now. Joe says that he's not aware of anyone being killed, but Amnesty International has released statements about it, including one that says

Jen Psaki just said yesterday that "Americans are not "stranded" in Afghanistan. Pardon me? Some Americans are getting beaten up on their way to the airport and turned back, some are locking themselves in their rooms and are afraid to even go out to get food, and the government has no plans to go and get them. They've said that "they can't do it". How is that not "stranded"? 

There are about 10,000 Americans there and the Talis have told the US to get their troops out on the 31st or there will be consequences. Biden whimpered. Is the US getting over 1,000 of their people out every day? 

They've left an estimated $83 Billion worth of weapons there, including blackhawk helicopters and tens of thousands of military vehicles. 

This is worse than the Bay of Pigs, General Custer or any other debacle in US military history. 

Biden needs to step down, and the only thing that's stopping an outpouring of that sentiment is the fact that we all know how much worse Kamala Harris will be. 

I don't think I could have made my point any better than you just did.

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/24/2021 at 2:00 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The entire premise of a U.S. as "world leader" has been eroding for many years, partially by design and otherwise because of 21st century realities.   America's century was the 20th, and its traditional role and influence was waning long before Biden, Trump, Obama, etc.

It's not just an emerging China, but also the inevitable changing world dynamics after the Cold War ended....no more binary, polarized West vs. Soviet Union/Russia and proxy nations so aligned.

The U.S. can no longer afford to be the world police, and shouldn't do so even if it could.

Agreed 100% ... but as the title of this thread reads, my answer to that is definitely NO.

Britain is no more a world superpower than Sweden or Japan. When Britain was a world superpower (pre-WWI) they were not of any "free" world by any meaning, they were among the most domineering and war mongering superpowers in world history (British Empire). The USA even had to start a war to secede from them. Even the British people themselves were not really "free" with the politics (still completely unelected Senate/House of Lords and officially a Kingdom) and economics (think Charles Dickens' world) of Britain during the British Empire. 

But with US power diminishing, in a zero sum game world view, yes, Britain might have moved up slightly. However Boris Johnson or Theresa May or whoever comes next are not in the right position to be seen as "Leader of the free world." The British office of Prime Minister still does not have near the same international recognition as the White House or the Kremlin. The British army is not small but also not near the top of the world's largest armies. Their technology might be advanced but is typically not the most cutting edge and not necessarily the most reliable: Have you driven a British car lately?

Germany also ... considerable for sure to be a or THE European continental power, but same as Britain not complete to be a world leader. "Free" is also not a word to describe Germany historically as per the last two times Germany amassed powerful armies.

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On 9/29/2021 at 4:32 PM, suds said:

The US will remain leader of the free world as long as it's the only country that can realistically (militarily) stand up to china and russia.  Presidents come and go.   Biden has been a disaster so far. It's a good thing we have nato.

Military strength isn't the only factor though. Credibility and integrity are more important, and the US doesn't have any of that right now.

Biden wasn't even able to stand up to the Taliban, they completely outsmarted him and his huge army. Then Biden killed a foreign aid worker and a bunch of children.

The Afghan withdrawal was a mash-up of so many debacles that it's hard to say which one is the worst.

Only carrion fowl would follow him into battle. 

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On 9/29/2021 at 4:32 PM, suds said:

The US will remain leader of the free world as long as it's the only country that can realistically (militarily) stand up to china and russia.  Presidents come and go.   Biden has been a disaster so far. It's a good thing we have nato.

Trump wanted out of Afghanistan before the 2020 election and it was Trump who negotiated the withdrawal deal with the Taliban. Biden can be faulted for sticking with that bad deal.

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It seems like that happens every time.  Maybe that's a complicated thing to do ?

Not a bad point to make, but there were so many basic, strategic flaws this time around that it's hard to imagine a worse way of doing it.

They gave the fortified airbase to the Talis and used the civilian airfield. They pulled out the military before the civilians. They did it during Afghanistan's military campaigning season just so that they could have the final send-off on 9/11.

At every turn Biden was the Coyote and the Talis were the Roadrunner.

Bombing civilians and then pretending that they were terrorists for two weeks doesn't seem the least bit out of place in that withdrawal. It was like the cherry on top. 

Most recruits fresh out of basic training would have handled this better than Gen. Milley did. Most kids in Poli Sci 101 would have drawn up a better withdrawal plan on a napkin than Biden did with 8 months of planning and his multi-million dollar defence staff.

You almost have to wonder, was "Please, Mr Tali sir, don't massacre my unprotected civilians or our SIVs and their families" part of Biden's plan? If it was, would that make his plan better, or worse?

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21 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1. They gave the fortified airbase to the Talis and used the civilian airfield. They pulled out the military before the civilians.  

2. Bombing civilians and then pretending that they were terrorists for two weeks doesn't seem the least bit out of place in that withdrawal. It was like the cherry on top. 

1. I'm inclined to listen to your insights on this.  What are some examples of the trade-offs they had to make in this ?
2. Can you give a cite for that ?

I'm looking for substance here, and for that you need to examine what the trade-offs were, what the game was and what were the chances taken.  I have seen a lot of retroactive criticism of military and intelligence strategy that equates to armchair analysis.

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm inclined to listen to your insights on this.  What are some examples of the trade-offs they had to make in this ?
2. Can you give a cite for that ?

I'm looking for substance here, and for that you need to examine what the trade-offs were, what the game was and what were the chances taken.  I have seen a lot of retroactive criticism of military and intelligence strategy that equates to armchair analysis.

1) No trade-off. Just a poor tactical decision: https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-abandoned-bagram-air-base-joe-biden-mark-milley-pentagon-afghanistan-taliban-kabul-11630096157

Quote

President Biden on Thursday essentially blamed his generals for the Bagram pullout. “They concluded—the military—that Bagram was not much value added, that it was much wiser to focus on Kabul,” he said. “And so, I followed that recommendation.” What Mr. Biden neglected to mention is that the President sets the constraints under which the military draws up plans and evaluates options.

At a briefing last week, General Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that securing Bagram took “a significant level of military effort,” and “our task given to us at that time, our task was to protect the Embassy in order for the Embassy personnel to continue to function.” As a result, he added, “we had to collapse one or the other.”

Dumb vs Dumber. The generals blame this on a decision [Biden's] to get down to ridiculously low troop numbers at that stage, which wasn't nearly enough to handle the situation. FWIW they didn't protect the embassy either. 

Seems like it was actually Biden that Milley should have been betraying instead of Trump.

 

 

2) the drone strike took place on Aug 29th. At that time they reported it as a successful strike against a terrorist: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/29/world/asia/us-drone-strike-evacuation.html

 They didn't fess up until the 17th or 18th of Sept: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58604655

 

Edited by WestCanMan
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19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm inclined to listen to your insights on this.  What are some examples of the trade-offs they had to make in this ?
2. Can you give a cite for that ?

I'm looking for substance here, and for that you need to examine what the trade-offs were, what the game was and what were the chances taken.  I have seen a lot of retroactive criticism of military and intelligence strategy that equates to armchair analysis.

I answered your questions, do you have any comments to make now?

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https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-arcraft-carrier-ignores-chinese-warnings-for-second-time/

Britain seems to be leading the world in standing up to China. 

They're putting their carrier at risk, which could come back to haunt them, but they're also projecting a lot of military power in an area that China has declared off-limits to the rest of the world. 

You have to wonder if Biden's weakness is the main reason that China is being so aggressive right now. 

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On 10/6/2021 at 2:08 PM, WestCanMan said:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-arcraft-carrier-ignores-chinese-warnings-for-second-time/

Britain seems to be leading the world in standing up to China. 

They're putting their carrier at risk, which could come back to haunt them, but they're also projecting a lot of military power in an area that China has declared off-limits to the rest of the world. 

You have to wonder if Biden's weakness is the main reason that China is being so aggressive right now. 

 

Ships from six countries are part of the group including the US and Canada. US Marine aircraft make up about half the F-35's aboard the Queen Elizabeth. The British F-35's are from RAF 617 squadron, the Royal Navy won't have its own operational until 2023. Many navies including ours have sent warships through the South China sea as a demonstration of freedom of navigation.

Edited by Aristides
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