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Health care becomes an issue in the election at last


Argus

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The Liberals are panicking early because the Tories are rising in the polls. They've gone full negative already and accusing O'Toole of wanting to introduce "American style" private health care. Twitter has already labelled their video as misleading but at least it got headlines.

O'Toole replied to a question that he was willing to let the provinces experiment with real health care reform, including some private health care. That's how every European country operates, but of course, to the Liberals and the rest of the Left there's only us and the Americans so the shrieks of 'American health care' have already started. All Western European countries seem to have better systems than ours. We have longer wait times than any of them because we have far, FAR fewer doctors than they do. We have fewer diagnostic machines, fewer hospital beds and generally come at or near the bottom of every comparison list. This is what the Left defends.

Canada has 19 doctors per 1000 people. For comparison purposes, Look at some of the European countries which have "private health care' incorporated into their generous public systems.

Denmark 32 
Germany 35
Sweden 36
France   37.
Italy        37
Norway  39
Netherlands 39
Switzerland  40
Belgium 42

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/john-ivison-trudeau-continues-to-rebuke-otooles-healthcare-plan-despite-twitter-fiasco/wcm/1def7fea-c9b4-4816-93a7-8852e848a984

Edited by Argus
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The Health care system in this country sucks. Sick people sitting in waiting rooms for hours to be admitted to urgent care and even after admission even in emergencies having to wait hours more to see a doctor. Not to mention the long waiting list for surgeries and tests.

WE MUST HAVE PRIVATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM ALONGSIDE THE PUBLIC CARE. This would be a win-win situation as those who can afford it can pay for services and get a better and faster service and more public money and hence more doctors, nurses, clinics and hospitals will be freed up for those who cannot afford. I can't even begin to understand why would anyone in right mind oppose this win-win situation (Private Health Care). The left and socialist and the red are killing people with their damn ideology of public care only.

Private Health will be a single item that will determine my vote regardless of anything else. Any party who solidly promises establishing or allowing Private Health Care system in Canada will win my vote.

 

 

0.

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The system we have is not the one Tommie Douglas came up with. Pierre Trudeau was in love with Cuba and he adapted our system to be like theirs. But in an open society you can't control costs the way they do. That's why we have 19 doctors per 1000 people while Cuba has 67. Cuban doctors don't make hundreds of thousands a year so the government doesn't need to limit their numbers to save money.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/23/2021 at 4:36 PM, Argus said:

The Liberals are panicking early because the Tories are rising in the polls. They've gone full negative already and accusing O'Toole of wanting to introduce "American style" private health care. Twitter has already labelled their video as misleading but at least it got headlines.

O'Toole replied to a question that he was willing to let the provinces experiment with real health care reform, including some private health care. That's how every European country operates, but of course, to the Liberals and the rest of the Left there's only us and the Americans so the shrieks of 'American health care' have already started. All Western European countries seem to have better systems than ours. We have longer wait times than any of them because we have far, FAR fewer doctors than they do. We have fewer diagnostic machines, fewer hospital beds and generally come at or near the bottom of every comparison list. This is what the Left defends.

Canada has 19 doctors per 1000 people. For comparison purposes, Look at some of the European countries which have "private health care' incorporated into their generous public systems.

Denmark 32 
Germany 35
Sweden 36
France   37.
Italy        37
Norway  39
Netherlands 39
Switzerland  40
Belgium 42

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/john-ivison-trudeau-continues-to-rebuke-otooles-healthcare-plan-despite-twitter-fiasco/wcm/1def7fea-c9b4-4816-93a7-8852e848a984

So you're in favor of raising taxes to pay for it?

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15 hours ago, Galloway said:

So you're in favor of raising taxes to pay for it?

if necessary, yes. Though the amount we pay for health care is not out of line with our European peers. I believe there is a lot of inefficiency and waste here. And I want to see more private health care as they have in Europe. I want more doctors and shorter wait times all around, especially for urgent care. Put the GST back up to 7% and give all the money to the provinces for health care. But also change the Canada Health Act to allow the provinces to experiment with private health care while still requiring them to meet goals for the public system. I'd also like to see some user fees.

Edited by Argus
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16 hours ago, Galloway said:

So you're in favor of raising taxes to pay for it?

No. Private health care. Those who can afford and choose will pay for their expenses like hospitals, tests and surgeries fpr faster better quality service as our public health care is broken under load. This way the existing current money and facilities will remain for those who choose public care and hence faster and better service for those who choose public care as well. A win-win situation.

Not sure what is wrong with people but in the latest Nanos survey, 53 percent of Canadians did not favor Private health care (on the positive side 47% did). Very disappointing. People don't understand or are use to public health care and can't understand the enormous benefits of private care alongside public one.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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Our Health care system should have been an election issue 2 or 3 elections ago, Canadians have adjusted to what little we get for the amount it costs... And Health care is NOT standardized across the country, each province is free to run it as they see fit, so some provinces have it better than others...The feds ( liberals) do not want to put any more into it, as they will not get anything out of it... for a G-7 country we should have a much better system than we do... a massive update is long over due, Medical, dental, and pharma should be tied into one neat tidy bow, for everyone...maybe tie into that infra structure bank and build some new hospitals and equipment....Shit here in NB there are 3 MRI machines in the entire province and one of those is privately owned, and to get in to use the provincial one takes up to 2 years in a lot of cases.. 

I think Health care has caught everyone's eye because of the NS election, and while it has been brought up a few times by the lead parties, Gun control, costing of the conservatives plan, and vaccines have lead in the headlines lately ...None of them are really worthy of head line material but rather a liberal distraction. 

And in all of this our long term care homes should be national addressed, or atleast force provincial to address them in a major way...Kick out those for profit companies.

Edited by Army Guy
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On 9/10/2021 at 6:52 PM, Argus said:

There should be a whole debate on health care alone, and how to fix it. I guarantee you Canadians are a lot more interested in that than reconciliation or climate change.

Agreed.  We need a tripartite discussion between government, service providers and patients.  We need cost consciousness and service level awareness.  To get that, we need to formalize a public consultation process and engage with the public in a new way.  That's something I would like to see anyway..

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On 9/10/2021 at 6:52 PM, Argus said:

There should be a whole debate on health care alone, and how to fix it. I guarantee you Canadians are a lot more interested in that than reconciliation or climate change.

Yes but I don't think any party with a chance to form a government considers seriously to have private health care as part of its platform. Our health care system is seriously sick.

God help you if you ever need care in a hospital. Waiting hours to be seen by a doctor in a unit called "Urgent Care" and then after that they keep you till morning sitting while being seriously ill without food or your medication so that someone with more expertise in your ILLNESS can re-visit you. This is what happened recently to a close family of mine. The health care here kills patients is what I told emergency doctors and nurses.

I

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On 8/23/2021 at 7:36 PM, Argus said:

.....

O'Toole replied to a question that he was willing to let the provinces experiment with real health care reform, including some private health care. That's how every European country operates, but of course, to the Liberals and the rest of the Left there's only us and the Americans so the shrieks of 'American health care' have already started.

.....

I was abroad at the time, and this was before Youtube, but I recall a non-Liberal federal candidate showing a hand written paper "No Two Tier System" during a debate.

In Quebec, now, in 2021, everyone knows that we have a two tier system.

====

We'll see if this blue-eyed, smiling, happy, Irish-named, lousy French-speaking guy can defeat a Trudeau. 

 Heck, Trudeau Jnr may even get his 170 seats.

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Health care is a service and it amounts to medical insurance. And medical insurance is a minefield.

It defies discussion because people are discussing life, an existential question.

=====

To understand my viewpoint, imagine that a pill/procedure/surgical table existed that would cure any ailment/cancer/heart problem - except that the pill/procedure cost $200,000 each year.

Who would get the pill? Procedure? Surgery?

In Canada, some people live in a Tommy Douglas fantasyland where everyone can have health care - while our GDP per capita is $60,000. 

Edited by August1991
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8 hours ago, August1991 said:

 

In Canada, some people live in a Tommy Douglas fantasyland where everyone can have health care - while our GDP per capita is $60,000. 

Tommy Douglas did not design our medical insurance. HIS medial insurance plan included user fees, limitations, and no ban on privately supplied services.

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On 9/19/2021 at 1:01 PM, Argus said:

Tommy Douglas did not design our medical insurance. HIS medial insurance plan included user fees, limitations, and no ban on privately supplied services.

Argus,

Those various fees/limitations do not exist "officially" in our health system now.

=====

Our Canadian health system has been Soviet for years: It is two-tier but no one admits it. 

Worse, our Canadian health system is increasingly Soviet in a different sense: the money coming in is not connected to the money going out.

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