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Pandemic will likely get worse in the fall and winter but no more lockdowns.


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1 minute ago, Argus said:

This adjustment?

Risk of hospital admission was twice as high ...

Yes, this "adjustment" is called "clueless" because 196 cases out of 8,500 is 2.3% and not 4.4%, in the third grade math at least.

And a hardly avoidable conclusion.

1. Continuation of uniform restrictions is not supported by the science and evidence. Up to 95% of population at this time can be expected to have strong protection against Covid hospitalization, with the risk lower than that of a flu complication and traffic injury. Continuation of uniform restrictions without justification and evidence can be a transgression toward arbitrary and voluntaristic use of authority.

2. PHO must return to the business of managing the disease, rather than the population, and judged on the effectiveness of methods that do not interfere with freedoms of citizens and achieved results.

3. The emphasis going forward needs to be on: a) protection of vulnerable part of the population; b) timely and effective treatment for those who need it; c) intelligent and effective methods to suppress infection in specific environments, including technology-based; d) and the foremost, honest, current and accurate information to the society.

Covid fear mongering, pumping and pressing the fear on the society is not justified by the evidence and can be interpreted as an attempt at manipulation of the public opinion.

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We accuse authoritarian regimes of using propaganda to promote political agendas and grip to power, always under some good pretext. But the difference becomes elusive in this case. Who and how could judge the intentions of bureaucrat(s) pumping out another Covid-scare story, is it to guide peasant population to the good end, or to protect the stability of the chair, especially in the absence of other achievements that can be shown?

No, I don't think we'll find the answer looking at pretexts. Propaganda is just propaganda, if and when the assumed and purported problem cannot be supported by the objective evidence and lost relevance to the reality. This criterium makes it simple to detect and form an opinion about.

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The public health authorities are risking their credibility by continuing to call for restrictions when the science clearly shows flu level risks to the vaccinated and vaccine-ineligible population.  If the pretext for these restrictions is to protect the eligible unvaccinated who have freely chosen not to get vaccinated, that’s paternalistic overreach, at least when we know that our hospitals are unlikely to be overwhelmed, which is the case today.

Not only are our hospitals quiet, Covid is being used as an excuse not to see patients and to limit the capacities of businesses to make money and people from interacting. It’s created a dysfunctional society in order to reach unattainable public health purity.  We don’t hold these standards for protection against flu or traffic accidents. Responsible governments have to take back power from health authorities that are no longer acting in the public interest.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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On 8/19/2021 at 12:47 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Covid pandemic is expected to get a lot worse in the fall and winter but NO MORE LOCKDOWNS OR WILL BE LARGELY IGNORED AND DISOBEYED. This is to serve a warning to the governments at various levels. Canadians are fed up with lockdowns, melt down economy, loss of jobs and home imprisonment. Over 80% are vaccinated. The next pandemic will be mainly among unvaccinated people where most of hospitalizations and deaths will be but that was their choice. We will refuse to pay the price for their choice and will disobey any government trying To impose lockdowns in future.

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-reports-more-than-500-new-cases-of-covid-19-once-again-1.5553301

"We are preparing aggressively for the fall," Chief Medical Officer of Health Dr. Kieran Moore said during a press conference earlier this week. "I am sorry to say, I think it's going to be a difficult fall and winter." 

About 85 per cent of the cases (456) occurred in individuals who were either not fully vaccinated or for whom their vaccination status was unknown while the remaining cases (75) were in fully vaccinated individuals.

Of the 176 people in hospital outside of the ICU, only 13 are fully vaccinated.

 

That's what would happen in the U.S. but in Canada?

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18 minutes ago, jbg said:

That's what would happen in the U.S. but in Canada?

What would happen in the US but question mark for Canada? The cases already up 7 times in Ontario since July. It is surging in Western Canada and Quebec  and we are still in summer they say it will get a lot worse in the fall and winter and it will reach a point that our health care will be overwhelmed and the only choice will be to lockdown again so why you question that for Canada.

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3 minutes ago, myata said:

Well yeah if you only have a hammer (and not much in the way of a brain), like what would your options be?

The option with a brain would be to make vaccines mandatory for everyone and ban the unvaccinated from leaving home. New infections will be reduced by 90% and hospitalizations will be reduced even more. But we don't have people in authority with enough balls to exercise such options.

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15 minutes ago, myata said:

Remember that 1 billion plus for "rapid Covid-19 response") - out of public pocket of course, whose else? Whatever happened to it, it was so cute.

I think the Federal government purchased them with good intentions as there were many calls for purchasing them but provincial governments rarely used them.

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48 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

to make vaccines mandatory for everyone and ban the unvaccinated from leaving home.

And again, if you only have a hammer and hammer is all you know to use then your choices are quite limited. To exactly two, actually: you hammer and it works, or you hammer and it doesn't (and it may not be the hammer that is to blame if it wouldn't work).

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17 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

The option with a brain would be to make vaccines mandatory for everyone and ban the unvaccinated from leaving home. New infections will be reduced by 90% and hospitalizations will be reduced even more. But we don't have people in authority with enough balls to exercise such options.

"A brain," really? Is that what you're calling it this time.

OK, so let's say we let you have your way this time. You'll need your vaccine passports checked through a central federal registry, of course. Papers please. And then you'll counter check for offenders with what? The census or something? And if they won't get the jab willingly I imagine you'll just be grabbing them. There will be offenders trying to slip through the cracks. Will your guys be kicking doors down again?

There have been cases of adverse reactions up to death. Those won't matter much to you so you'll be mandating them, I guess.

How will all the naturally immune and immune by previous infection get off your list? Or does it matter?

Then there's kids. They aren't really in much danger and you haven't been able to manufacture the data necessary to say they're a danger to others yet but I can't help noticing how you types like to get kids away from parents of the narrative unbeliever so I imagine you'll be doing that again too.

Also even your fellow jab nazis over at the BBC haven't been able to deny at least this:

Efficency-reduces-over-time.jpg

So your gestapo techniques have to continue indefinitely into the future. Will you be needing camps?

Whatever...nothing will surprise me if you "big brained" nazis are able to get your mandatory vaccines. So then what? Once you get the gullibles used to the idea of enforced compliance it's on to the deniers of climate change or something like that, I imagine.

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Governments with balls introduce and pass emergency acts like war measures act. It is temporarily till the emergency situation ends. Random checks by law enforcement and heavy fines on violators will be enough.  In this case vaccination should continue until the pandemic ends (based on past experience it takes 3 years) or an effective treatment or cure is found.

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But of course, starting with universal loving and cute fuzziness how would it go but mandatory, enforcement, fines, jails, camps and you said it, war acts? And of course it took 3 years on average to find cure for flu, common cold and HIV and certainly any bull can go here, easily and naturally, and why not, like are there any stops or limits when you judge yourself, control yourself, evaluate yourself and pay to yourself?

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On 8/19/2021 at 12:15 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

What is that you oppose to the specific post above that you quoted. Are you saying that pandemic is not getting worse in the coming fall and winter or are you saying that we should have another round of lockdowns or you just wish to oppose to anything that I say? Btw, I don't wish anything to do with radical right misinformation sites and social media.

Those websites mentioned are not radical right wing misinformation websites at all. But what you are trying to spread here is radical left wing misinformation, comrade. 

Just where and how did you come up with that stupid idea that those websites that I mentioned are radical right wing? Maybe you can point something out to me where this may be so? I await your awesome reply. LOL.

I am opposed to everything that has to do with the covid virus lying hoax. Of course I am against lock downs. Only our dear comrade globalist leaders want more lock downs. Look at what they are doing in Australia. The people are living and under a medical communist globalist tyranny. Hello? ?

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5 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

What would happen in the US but question mark for Canada? The cases already up 7 times in Ontario since July. It is surging in Western Canada and Quebec  and we are still in summer they say it will get a lot worse in the fall and winter and it will reach a point that our health care will be overwhelmed and the only choice will be to lockdown again so why you question that for Canada.

You are one crazy dude in the head. The bloody hospitals are pretty much empty of covid patients. Go check them out for yourself if they will let you in. Of course they will not let you in because they are lying and a bunch of liars. Just saying. ? LOL.

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2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Governments with balls introduce and pass emergency acts like war measures act. It is temporarily till the emergency situation ends. Random checks by law enforcement and heavy fines on violators will be enough.  In this case vaccination should continue until the pandemic ends (based on past experience it takes 3 years) or an effective treatment or cure is found.

Cuckoo-cuckoo. ?

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5 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

What would happen in the US but question mark for Canada? The cases already up 7 times in Ontario since July. It is surging in Western Canada and Quebec  and we are still in summer they say it will get a lot worse in the fall and winter and it will reach a point that our health care will be overwhelmed and the only choice will be to lockdown again so why you question that for Canada.

The decision as to whether or not to lock down can no longer be blamed on public health risk.   It’s purely a political decision.   It’s the choice for freedom or control.  Hint:  Pick door number one. Otherwise expect endless restrictions.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 hours ago, taxme said:

You are one crazy dude in the head. The bloody hospitals are pretty much empty of covid patients. Go check them out for yourself if they will let you in. Of course they will not let you in because they are lying and a bunch of liars. Just saying. ? LOL.

You are a complete and total madman and out of control. This is a debate forum not a war zone. 

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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33 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The decision as to whether or not to lock down can no longer be blamed on public health risk.   It’s purely a political decision.   It’s the choice for freedom or control.  Hint:  Pick door number one. Otherwise expect endless restrictions.  

In my post I said it is based on level of hospitalization and if our health care system can cope if new cases surge very high.

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5 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

The option with a brain would be to make vaccines mandatory for everyone and ban the unvaccinated from leaving home. New infections will be reduced by 90% and hospitalizations will be reduced even more. But we don't have people in authority with enough balls to exercise such options.

Seriously, this is People’s Republic of China stuff.  

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Vaccination level is already exploited to the nth degree. You’re not going to see a big benefit by forcing the remainder to vaccinate. Once you hit the 70-80% level it’s about as good as it gets.

I read from reliable sources that about 10M people are not fully vaccinated. Of these, 5M cannot be vaccinated.

That means we can only get to 85-90% vaccination, not 100%.

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Seriously, this is People’s Republic of China stuff.  

They infected the whole world but prevented the disease from killing their own citizens. Compare US versus China's case numbers and deaths. Price of democracy.

Sometimes for the good of all, governments have to make unpopular or even undemocratic decisions. Btw, the War Measures act was in Canada not China.

If deaths and hospitalization remain low as I expect them to (because 80% of eligible people are fully vaccinated) then I do not believe in future lockdowns (Btw, I am the OP for this thread demanding no more lockdowns) but if infections and deaths surges then I will have to reluctantly support extreme measures in order to save lives.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

They infected the whole world but prevented the disease from killing their own citizens. Compare US versus China's case numbers and deaths. Price of democracy.

Sometimes for the good of all, governments have to make unpopular or even undemocratic decisions. Btw, the War Measures act was in Canada not China.

If deaths and hospitalization remain low as I expect them to (because 80% of eligible people are fully vaccinated) then I do not believe in future lockdowns (Btw, I am the OP for this thread demanding no more lockdowns) but if infections and deaths surges then I will have to reluctantly support extreme measures in order to save lives.

I don’t admire China’s handling of the virus.   What you don’t seem to appreciate is that if we can’t reduce the threat of the virus with vaccination, which we are doing, then the decision we have to make as a society is whether to live under permanent restrictions with some cases and deaths or without restrictions and a higher rate of hospitalizations and deaths.   Well permanent restrictions make no sense with such a rapid fall in the ratio of deaths to cases.  It certainly makes no sense as the vast majority of people are protected from serious illness because of vaccination or immunity through viral spread.   The ineligible young are at safe levels of death and hospitalization.

Any imposition of restrictions going forward is feeding fear and government overreach.  It’s unacceptable.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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China's numbers are as worthless as their claim the virus started in a live food market where it somehow leapt from a bat they don't serve at the food market into a pangolin they don't serve and magically injected itself into some unknown individual and incubated to become covid. Meanwhile there's a bioweapons lab up road that deals with bats and covid viruses.

The Chi-comms have been lying about everything connected to this virus since they had to admit its existence. But now Citizen wants us to believe their numbers.

Because if you believe their made up numbers it means authoritarian control is the way to go. BS from start to go is what that is.

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