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Pandemic will likely get worse in the fall and winter but no more lockdowns.


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10 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

 

So you've got 395 unvaccinated and 283 fully vaccinated or  questionable. We don't know where the now immune fit in. But you want to say it's pretty much all unvaccinated who are responsible for the recent rise when it took both vaccinated and unvaccinated to account for previous similar rises.

 

Even the data that you yourself included shows the large majority of new cases are among the small minority unvaccinated. As said before however, vaccines are best for preventing hospitalizations and deaths not new infections and data I provided before showed over 95% in unvaccinated Ontarians

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Yes, but they also show a large contingent of the vaccinated and questionably vaccinated or otherwise immune being available to continue the spread.

Therefore you must include that into your calculation if you're going to command we inject this questionable "vaccine" into our arms before all the data is in.

And 95% is a questionable data point based on insufficient and localized data.

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And you guys still haven't explained the plummeting of death cases since Florida started using the antibody treatment.

So me personally, I'm going to hang on with my vaccine hesitancy until even the brainwashed doctors of Canada have to admit therapeutics have some use. Maybe I can get some.

Edited by Infidel Dog
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3 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Here ya go genius.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

Why? Are you saying you guys don't want to use worldometer stats when they don't show what you'd like them to?

I would suggest to you that worldometer might not exactly be in possession of full and complete numbers given desantis ordered the state to stop giving out daily numbers.

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24 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

And you guys still haven't explained the plummeting of death cases since Florida started using the antibody treatment.

You haven't shown that to be the case and I've found no mention of it. Don't you think someone might have noticed and written an article or two about such a 'plummeting' death rate in Florida, and that other bubba states would have immediately taken note and started to give out the same stuff? Do you ever engage your brain for anything, Cletus?

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Tell you what...while you're waiting here's something you hadn't considered, you can kill a little time considering.

August 25, 2021

The Good News—A COVID-19 Update

Let’s look at the good news that can calm our fears about COVID-19. There’ll be time at a later date to look at the bad and the ugly of the resolving pandemic.

1) Globally, the survival rate for COVID-19 is 99.8%. Under the age of 70, the survival rate for COVID-19 is 99.97%. This is on par with many influenza seasons. Americans younger than 70 do not have to fear COVID-19 any more than influenza and we know how to protect the elderly.

2) Herd immunity for the alpha strain is here. Sixty-seven percent of the American population have had at least one COVID-19 vaccination. The official number of cases is about 10% of the population, but several antibody studies show that the percentage of those with natural immunity is 4-6 times higher. Dr. Marty Makary, a Johns Hopkins professor, estimates that 80-85% of the population is immune from natural immunity and vaccination. Those who deny this must explain how cases and deaths started to decline in January way before there was a significant vaccine effort. COVID-19 will not go away. Instead, we are transitioning now from a pandemic to endemic status and, indeed, some eminent virologists say vaccinating in the middle of a pandemic is making herd immunity more difficult to obtain through the creation of variants.

3) The average age of death from COVID is 78. The average life expectancy in America is 78. This is not to say, “Don’t worry, only old people are dying of COVID-19.” However, this fact should direct and inform our policies to protect the elderly especially. Children and those under age 70 are at much lower risk.

4)  Early outpatient treatment should be adopted immediately for COVID-19. Hydroxychloroquine works. Ivermectin works. It has been estimated 85% of COVID-19 deaths could have been prevented were these medicines used early. America’s Frontline Doctors have an excellent compilation of research. The cost of these treatments is $1/day. A new IV treatment, REGEN-COV, has been approved for early use in COVID-19. Don’t wait to see if you will get sick. Treat early.

5) Children are safe from COVID-19 and don’t spread the virus either. A study in the UK showed that the survival rate in children is 99.995%. In the U.S. 335 children have died since the start of the pandemic. A study done by Johns Hopkins and FAIR Health showed that all of the children that died from April 2020 to August 2020 had immune problems or were chronically ill. In that period not one healthy child died. Children have more chance of dying in a car wreck, unintentional drug overdose, or influenza than from COVID-19. Vaccination for healthy children is not needed.

6) Sweden did not have a lockdown or mask mandate and did better with cases and deaths than many countries. Lockdown did not work and had serious cultural and economic side effects. There is ample literature now to show that masks, as we are using them, do not work.

7) Persons who have had COVID-19 infection have a robust and long-lasting immunity. This immunity also is likely to protect against variants. As evidence continues to accumulate that the new mRNA vaccines are neither as effective nor safe as advertised, I would advise not getting the vaccine on top of your natural immunity if you had the COVID-19 infection.

8) There is very little, if any, spread of COVID-19 from asymptomatic persons. This lie was spread early to maximize fear of this new virus. COVID-19 is like other respiratory viral infections—you catch it from being around someone who has symptoms. Like other viral infections, if you are sick stay home, quarantine yourself, and treat yourself. We do not need to quarantine the asymptomatic healthy.

9) The death rate nationally for COVID-19 has been going down since January. Breathless “news” reporters talk about cases, hospital occupation, and contagiousness but never mention the death decline. There has been a small uptick in deaths in some areas over the last week, but not anywhere close to last winter. (There will be some variations in the death rate as we transition to endemic status)

10) The Delta variant is acting like a typical historical virus variant. Typically, variants happen all the time and are more contagious but less deadly. Initial reports show that this is likely true with Delta. A UK report states the Delta variant is likely 20 times less deadly than the alpha strain, but that more data needs to be collected. The media constantly mentions that delta is more contagious which is also true. Other Greek variants are likely to behave in the same fashion.

 We do not need to be afraid of COVID-19 anymore. Let’s begin to end the hysteria and fear. The worst is over and we are transitioning to endemic status which means a low level of cases and deaths."

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/08/the_good_newsa_covid19_update.html

Edited by Infidel Dog
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1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Tell you what...while you're waiting here's something you hadn't considered, you can kill a little time considering.

August 25, 2021

The Good News—A COVID-19 Update

Let’s look at the good news that can calm our fears about COVID-19....

But, what about Nancy's 'science'? 

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The question of early treatment is a very valid one. Since the early days enormous progress has been made and a number of effective treatments approved (feel free to have a look for yourself). Are they available to everybody in the country, and being used regularly and correctly? The problem is, no one can answer this question here, all valid and appropriate questions are muted by the propaganda drumming. But for some reason we hear a lot about ICU, "intubating" and other scary stuff way after early treatments could and should have been applied. Who can assure us, citizens who are paying for it out of our pockets that it's not yet another case of "travel from Wuhan"?

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18 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

But, what about Nancy's 'science'? 

Oh man...why did you say that?

Now I've gotta do it. I'm not supposed to do it, but I've got to do it.

Apparently what I'm going to show you is not a dead on, useful comment on exactly what you're talking about. It's a cartoon and I'm not allowed to show you such a cogent, dead on commentary.

Ah, what the Hell...I'm going to show it to you anyway and take my lumps:

science-television-covid.png

 

  • Haha 1
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Deflecting to government is one thing, and a sign of liberal weakness IMO. The fact is, WE are largely responsible for how WE make choices in handling the pandemic.

As I posted earlier, I see a complete and utter lack of social distancing and prudent mask use in obvious situations and locations. When public transit REQUIRES masks by city law and people ignore it with drivers saying nothing, we invite continued spread - which is spiking again. Surprise.

Government has provided the tools and recommendations. WE have to make responsible personal choices.

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1 hour ago, RedDog said:

As I posted earlier, I see a complete and utter lack of social distancing and prudent mask use in obvious situations and locations. When public transit REQUIRES masks by city law and people ignore it with drivers saying nothing, we invite continued spread - which is spiking again. Surprise.

You are making a good point. However there's a difference between a reasonable and effective policy; and an arbitrary, nonsense, an appearance only policy. Now, whose responsibility it would be to explain and prove the reasons for and effectiveness of proposed policies to the people? Who was and is being paid just for that huge and frankly, bordering on obscene compensations out of the public pocket (cited examples)?

No. No automatic excuses to pass on all responsibility for all what is not working, all failures, fiascos, mumbled incoherent and self-contradictory rules and policies to the people who did not make them, and were not paid for it. Never was. Though it doesn't mean that someone wouldn't want it just this way. Maybe because for them it makes complete and perfect sense, i.e. being paid, generously and sometimes, outrageously with no, without any and total lack of responsibility for the outcomes in the reality.

Does it for us though? Paid me; responsible for the stink, that has to be you. Would you hire a contractor like this, with such expectations and behavior for a private work for your own buck?

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Contractor or guests next to me in a crowed cafe, I don’t want anyone around me who isn’t vaccinated. They’re almost certainly the same ones who won’t mask up or socially distance when appropriate.

Since masks are required on public transit, I think proof of vaccination should be as well. All the FREEDOM hawks chest pounding and congratulating themselves should, quite frankly stay at home. You’re not welcome around an increasing percentage of the population.

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16 minutes ago, RedDog said:

Contractor or guests next to me in a crowed cafe, I don’t want anyone around me who isn’t vaccinated. They’re almost certainly the same ones who won’t mask up or socially distance when appropriate.

That argument can be applied to anything, witchcraft included, unless defended and proven in a rigorous process based on reviewed and validated evidence. I'm scared so you must, no things don't work this way in this century's democracy. You'll have to choose one.

P.S. I will not condemn those who are not complying with rules and policies that are not explained; justified and defended i.e. can be considered as arbitrary. That is not in my job description as a citizen of a democratic country. Governments can try that (again and again) and see what happens.

Edited by myata
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1 hour ago, RedDog said:

I don’t want anyone around me who isn’t vaccinated.

Why not? Aren't you vaccinated?

You should be safe if you are. Besides, bot vaxxers and anti-vaxxers are apparently carriers. But the way this is looking, you vaxxers are more like the superspreaders now.

And allowing for new mutations.

;)

 

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What is the point of these scary anecdotes always with that word attached (CBC)? Did we get a scary story on every case of flu complications a few years back? Is it still information or already propaganda, and where is the line?

Maybe the time is ripe to begin measuring a special and specific index, democracy degradation index. Authoritarian, unaccountable governing, arbitrary measures and decisions, free media or controlled media with government imposed agenda, independent justice or look the other way justice? At least we could track our progress this way so it's no surprise at some point down the way.

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42 minutes ago, myata said:

What is the point of these scary anecdotes always with that word attached (CBC)? Did we get a scary story on every case of flu complications a few years back? Is it still information or already propaganda, and where is the line?

Maybe the time is ripe to begin measuring a special and specific index, democracy degradation index. Authoritarian, unaccountable governing, arbitrary measures and decisions, free media or controlled media with government imposed agenda, independent justice or look the other way justice? At least we could track our progress this way so it's no surprise at some point down the way.

CNN is bad too.  People don’t have the capacity to see a sensationalized story for what it is.  One child in the US died of Covid recently who didn’t have a preexisting condition.  You’d have thought we were under nuclear attack, which isn’t to minimize the loss of a child.  It’s upsetting that governments aren’t putting these stories in perspective and explaining Covid risk in relation to other common health risks.  If the facts were presented they would shut down the fear.  The public should demand honest data.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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Yes, looks like the difference is only in justification. Where in Xi's world it's the supreme wisdom of the party, here it's the government and its current agenda. That's it, no other difference, not noticeable in plain sight. What if we have already arrived and didn't even bother to notice, between the screen and a pack of beer?

Edited by myata
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Risk of deadly blood clots far worse after getting covid than from covid vaccines, including Astrazenka.

However, the data showed that there would be 934 extra cases of thrombocytopenia for every 10 million people after infection, compared with 107 after the first shot of the AstraZeneca jab. For ischaemic strokes, there would be an estimated 1,699 extra cases for every 10 million people after infection, while there would be only 143 extra cases after the first Pfizer jab.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/blood-clot-risk-greater-after-covid-infection-than-after-vaccination

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In the search for information where it's not forthcoming from the expected sources there seem to be some answers: BBC: delta variant. I would ignore the title for now because the fact is clear: out of the identified approximately 8,500 delta variant cases, 196 resulted in hospitalizations, or 2.3% and there is no "adjustment" that can change this fact of observable reality.

Now as many may know, not all Covid cases result in symptoms and are identified. From that it can be concluded that the risk of hospitalization due to Covid, without vaccination, in the general population is likely to be under 2%. And no, it isn't dramatically higher than that of the alpha variant (2.2% in the study).

From the earlier analysis we know that by now close to 95% of the population should have a very good protection against Covid, with more than ten times (same link, 92% to 96%) reduced risk of hospitalization. A third grader can put the two together: 2% / 10 = under 0.2% risk of hospitalization, today, for fully vaccinated and equivalent (and for fully vaccinated with the Phizer vaccine - same study, the protection is 96%, or 2% / 20 = under 0.1% risk of hospitalization).

For a comparison as cited earlier, the risk of a traffic injury (Ontario) is 0.6% - that's three times higher. There's also sufficient information to compare with the rate of complications from the flu. 24.7 million cases resulting in 334,185 hospital stays (USA, 2003 data) comes to approximately 1.4% of risk of hospitalization from an identified case of flu (compare to 2.3% for the delta variant of Covid). For the general population this results in approximately 0.12% risk of hospitalization due to flu.

For the lazy of us, the conclusion based on published data and my calculations as it isn't seem to be coming from any other sources: the risk of complications due to Covid now, for fully vaccinated and equivalent is less than 2/1000, that is less than a double of the risk of flu complication (and for fully vaccinated with Phizer, less than that of a flu) and about a third of the risk of a traffic injury (Phizer: less than one sixth).

The numbers don't lie. So is the sky still falling? Are blank and arbitrary restrictions supported by data and still justified? Or should PH authorities at last turn to their immediate business of working on effective management of the infection, as opposed to controlling the population?

Edited by myata
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2 hours ago, myata said:

In the search for information where it's not forthcoming from the expected sources there seem to be some answers: BBC: delta variant. I would ignore the title for now

You mean this title

Covid: Delta variant patients twice as likely to need hospital care

And this?

People are twice as likely to need hospital care if they are sick with the Delta Covid variant, rather than the Alpha variant that was once prevalent in the UK, data from England suggests.

 

2 hours ago, myata said:

because the fact is clear: out of the identified approximately 8,500 delta variant cases, 196 resulted in hospitalizations, or 2.3% and there is no "adjustment" that can change that fact of observable reality.

This adjustment?

Risk of hospital admission was twice as high for individuals diagnosed with the Delta variant, compared to those with Alpha, after adjusting for differences such as age, sex and ethnicity.

2 hours ago, myata said:

Now as many may know not all Covid cases result in symptoms and are identified. From that it can be concluded that the risk of hospitalization due to Covid, without vaccination, in the general population is likely to be under 2%. And no, it isn't dramatically higher than that of the alpha variant (2.2% in the study).

with two thirds of the population fully vaccinated the majority of cases continue to be coming from the unvaccinated population.

The province’s new data reports 485 COVID-19 cases were confirmed in unvaccinated people, 83 were partially vaccinated, and 147 cases in fully vaccinated people.

https://www.sachem.ca/news-story/10465763-ontario-reports-781-new-covid-cases-485-cases-were-confirmed-in-unvaccinated-people/

 

A recent analysis by PHE suggests that effectiveness against hospitalisation after two doses is:

  • 96% for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine
  • 92% for the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine
Edited by Argus
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