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Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.


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20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I bet if i came and demanded you give me 14,000 and gave you nothing in return you'd be pissed.

I see most EVs right now, as that used car salesman posting a 3 year warranty still left on the car I wanted to buy.

I am locked and loaded wanting to buy it, but see a year on what I am about to sign, and point it out.

His "don't worry about that, we will fix that", is about as confidence inducing as the average EV.

For the record, his fixing it, was just putting 3 years on the contract, even though the car's warranty had one left on it. My questions were irritating him, vs making him see he was selling me garbage and I caught him.

That dealership went out of business not long after.

I wonder why.

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9 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I also mentioned that vehicle currently does not exist. Many would buy one, if those needs were met.

I think if the tech was as usable as ICE and as affordable then for sure everyone would buy one when they were replacing their old ICE vehicle. 

Just like eventually everyone bought a car, and now horses aren't considered serious transportation. 

What kills me is they're pushing like hell for the gov't to force people to adopt to something that's not quite there yet rather than pushing them to work with car manufacturers to develop the 'last step' technology needed to make it work. 

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18 hours ago, Legato said:

And there's the rub. Not everyone wants to purchase an expensive virtue signaling set of bagpipes where the bag needs to be constantly refilled even only after a few bars of Scotland The Brave

 

14 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So in other words because they won't repeat your lies and follow your instructions you'd like to shame them. Otherwise you'll throw a hissy fit. 

The response of simple buttheads with nothing to contribute to a conversation whatsoever.

 

14 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I also mentioned that vehicle currently does not exist. Many would buy one, if those needs were met.

Obvious that your target price range is lower than mine. I also like the RAV4, but it's $3-4000 for the Toyota brand name on it. The hybrid's in my range, but not the Prime PHEV.
Also you have to factor where you live into things. In BC all sellers tend to factor in all available EV incentives into their deceptive MSRP prices that can make them look up to $7500 cheaper. Where I live a BEV is not really practical, but hybrids are.
Won't even look at Stellantis/Chrysler stuff, they're price gouging so bad on all their models they deserve a Loblaw style boycott. Basic Wrangler ICE is now $40K if you can even find one under $55 on their lots.

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19 minutes ago, herbie said:


The response of simple buttheads with nothing to contribute to a conversation whatsoever.

In other words you don't like the facts presented so you'd rather discredit the poster.

And you wonder why nobody is interested in your opinion on this. You can't even address basic truths

19 minutes ago, herbie said:

Obvious that your target price range is lower than mine. 

I'm sure lots of people are. Other people might want to pay just as much but need something different out of their vehicle.

It's the same thing. Evie's currently do not do all of the things that ice Vehicles do. Therefore a large hunk of the population will want ice vehicles.

Honestly, do you think insulting myself and others who don't believe that an ice is exactly the perfect fit for them right at the moment is the best way to advance your cause? If anything I'm more convinced than ever that the lunatics who are talking about climate change and how electric vehicles might help are completely full of shit and unable to address basic facts.

This is why the left always fails. You're angry bigoted ignorant people who can't tolerate anybody who doesn't instantly agree with you.

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2 hours ago, herbie said:

Obvious that your target price range is lower than mine.

I would be willing to pay up to 50K for the right vehicle.

Again, there are no EVs that appeal to me. Maybe the Honda Prologue EV as price point is appetizing and brand is reliable. But their ICEs are built like tanks, and highly proven.

On one hand, there would be the luxury of charging it at work for free, since we have outlets around the building and some even in front of parking spaces.

My issue, is the fact I take a lot of road trips in the summer. There is a reason why rental companies struggle to rent these types of vehicles.

Its not because people are too stubborn. 

Its because say, my trip is 7 hours, you truly need to factor in stations, and plan ahead or have it result in disaster.

There are gas stations everywhere. Tumbleweed city? Guarantee you there's a gas station and likely a Timmies there.

I have experienced it in an EV, and had to make an emergency stop to see where the nearest EV charge station was.

I made the mistake of taking a car's range, literally. I had enough on paper for the 300km trip, but hadn't factored the 40 degree weather and the air conditioner I had on low. Barely over half the trip I realize I only have 20km left, in the middle of nowhere. 

ICE? No problem. EV? Major issue. 

I had to download a different app, as the stations I was looking for couldn't be found. I lucked out. Station was available 10kms out. I was seeking a fast charge station, as didn't have the luxury of needing to charge for 4 hours.

I was sweating bullets, driving as slowly as possible, no air-conditioning to hopefully make it there. On fumes in a car, am not sweating it, as have reserve fuel.

I lucked out, but realized that I don't like meticulously having to think throughout a road trip. I want to enjoy my drive and think as little as possible.

I kind of like the aspect of checking my car, fuel the day prior and just taking off and not having to worry about anything.

That is not a comfort I am willing to let go of.

You call it stubbornness. I call it practicality. I will get what gets me where I need to go the most reliably.

If I only did city driving, would consider the EV.

But the point of buying a car, is to buy one that meets all my needs. You're otherwise wasting money, in my opinion. 

This isn't a tuxedo. I need to buy based on my driving needs.

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There's plugins all over around here for block heaters. Only 110 but who cares if you're in the office for 8 hours. And don't forget, it's an office, the Boss would have to tell someone to shut them off in the summer if he remembers and they'll all tell him they did without moving their heads an inch, knowing he won't get off his arse and check.

I don't drive much, maybe 30km a day, only made 3 runs over 100km so far this year. A PHEV would fit the bill. A charged up interior warmed car in the winter would beat a leaky box of a Jeep that took 50km to warm up and had to be plugged in anyway to keep the oil from turning to glue. Just me & the dog now, don't need no 3 row seating.

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1 hour ago, herbie said:

 

I don't drive much, maybe 30km a day, only made 3 runs over 100km so far this year. A PHEV would fit the bill. A charged up interior warmed car in the winter would beat a leaky box of a Jeep that took 50km to warm up and had to be plugged in anyway to keep the oil from turning to glue. Just me & the dog now, don't need no 3 row seating.

Great! As has been said about 20,000 times, there are some people who would benefit from a phev or an ev or hell  - even a bicycle!   And if that' works for you then you absolutely should consider that and that option should be available for you and nobody would say you shouldn't get one if it's a good fit.  But p/ev's are just not ready to replace ice vehicles yet even for half the users. The day will come, but that day is not today.

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7 hours ago, herbie said:

There's plugins all over around here for block heaters.

I get what you're saying, but can only see inconvenience when thinking of an EV.

Am open, but the wife is not. I had considered a couple models, including one from Volvo, and got a hard line no from her.

It makes absolutely no sense to her, considering our family that spreads out across North America.

IE Chicago, NYC, Los Angeles, and several smaller cities in between.

You're right. I don't do road trips daily. We reserve them for long weekends that we extend.

But based on your logic, families with a single car at their home like ours, should invest in a car that doesn't meet our every need.

It makes absolutely no logical sense.

EVs clearly are perfect for you. 

They are perfect for a lot of people.

But ICEs reign Supreme because they have the technology and infrastructure that makes it as such that I could drive anywhere in North America, and wouldn't have to worry a second about finding gas.

There are so many intangibles.

You see it as excuses, like the world owes you to buy an EV.

Its the opposite. EV selling companies, must make their cars competitive, to take over the market.

Look at BYD.

They had ugly cars for the longest time. Several were flops for a reason. I mentioned Fiskar. Weirdest cars, ever. So many useless features. They were a flop,  too.

Many go for futuristic looking, Tesla and BYD understood, that people tend to prefer traditional looking vehicles.

BYD has understood it even more, and manufacture their own batteries. Massive. Their price points are way cheaper, yet you're still getting:

image.thumb.png.03a355a23c6d57188fbed39fad12746d.png

And

image.thumb.png.cedf85dde66086be3135739c49e6c93b.png

And

image.thumb.png.05019a9647fe9731908a9e70cd092c11.png

Which trumps the Lucid Air (for the latter) on pricing, but you're still getting a gorgeous interior.

Meaning they also understand that the market will want a better performing battery, and a car that is built in a timely fashion. Tesla has been a joke, regarding production delays.

BYD will have to jump through massive hoops, just to crack our automotive market. Yet, governments seek a greener future?

Where is the competition? 

Tesla doesn't have competition in North America. Find me one EV that comes close to competing with it.

This is how you drive down pricing. 

Virtue signaling doesn't sell cars. Understanding the market you're selling to, does.

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As we're blocking them completely we'll never see an honest review on ow reliable the Chinese EVs are. The Vietnamese ones (VinFast) have been trashed in reviews.

But looking at Ontario investing, well China got in and controls a major supply chain while N America is still stumbling over it's own two feet. We risk a repeat of the 1980s where the Japanese kicked the Big Three into the dirt.

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10 hours ago, herbie said:

As we're blocking them completely we'll never see an honest review on ow reliable the Chinese EVs are.

They have a proven track record, as they have fleets of buses around the world.

Their batteries are proven.

They are a massive threat to Tesla.

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11 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

They are a massive threat to Tesla.

Actually no, Tesla has a plant in China building cars but aren't a huge maker like BYD. Telsa's more at risk for tariffs in the USA and Europe on Chinese built cars.

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1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

The moment that car hits Canadian markets (or if), Tesla would be s***ting themselves. I could easily see myself in a couple of their models.

I'm sure a dealership or distribution needs a cut.

But still $20k US for a pretty good EV is bonkers. Slave labour FTW I guess. 

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6 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Technically lithium batteries, chocolate and many other common items like Nike sneakers are made with slave labor.

At least EVs would be slave labor you could feel good about.

LOL - go sit in your corner and think about what you've done ;) 

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Another issue is QC issues, due to tight budgets. 

Lucid Motors which was tagged as to being a Tesla killer is the latest, in premium EVs being mired in dismal sales.

One of the common gripes, being spending hundreds of thousands for a car that has doors that don't latch properly

Gaps that weren't properly set. Etc.

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You keep doting on Tesla which already has factories in China and more EV experience than anyone else in N America. They're capable of competing whereas. BC just dropped EV  incentive from $55K to $50K and Tesla immediately dropped one model to $49,990.

GM and Ford are the ones who need to worry. But tariffs will 'save them' and make sure they still build ZERO $20,000 cars and keep piddling about for another decade.

A year or so ago the $10,000 Toyota Stout ICE pickup was announced. Add $5000 to bring it to N American standards. Add the 25% Chicken Tax. Ensure to bring in only the top model with all the options. Inflate that another $10K for current markets.

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13 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Another issue is QC issues, due to tight budgets. 

Lucid Motors which was tagged as to being a Tesla killer is the latest, in premium EVs being mired in dismal sales.

One of the common gripes, being spending hundreds of thousands for a car that has doors that don't latch properly

Gaps that weren't properly set. Etc.

Lucid is a luxury manufacturer, their cars start at $100K. When it comes to build quality they are also up against the likes of Mercedes, Audi, BMW and Porsche, all of which produce high performance luxury EV's.

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2 hours ago, Aristides said:

Lucid is a luxury manufacturer, their cars start at $100K.

At that price point, clients will expect perfection. 

I mean Porshes undergo meticulous quality control, to name one.

I mean, it borders on obsession to watch them meticulously go over gaps in door alignment. They have zero tolerance for anything less than the best. Mercedes and BMW have similar standards.

Fiskar tanked due to multiple issues, but this was one of them.

When you engineer a product, you must surprise the buyer with the things they don't expect, but all the things that are assumed as to working better do just that.

IE you buy a bike. You expect the derailer to work. The brakes.

One thing you shouldn't have to consider, is the handlebars turning freely. The brake cables not constantly  getting caught.

You will be pleasantly surprised if they considered a light material, and were expecting something heavy.

If competing with German ICE luxury brands, better be on your A game, or get left in the dust.

I know I am getting a car that handles as beautifully as it drives comfortably. 

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1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Hydrogen cars are far more inefficient than EVs. I just don't see how this technology takes off.

The future is EVs, and they start to make more sense when battery technology allows for these to be be made lighter, less flammable and cheaper and cleaner to mass produce. 

more expensive too. But it's easier to store and fill a hydrogen car than it is to charge a battery.

We're sooooo close.  But just not there yet. 

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4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But just not there yet. 

Unfortunately. 

Once we are, it will likely make no sense to drive freight trucks that aren't fully electric (the sheer weight of batteries make these unfavorable, due to many making their money based on payload).

 

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